Trouble ahead for Adobe

[GeoffVane]

Since Adobe is very strict in forcing everyone to get a subscription, they will soon find out this is going to backfire badly. I speak with many young people, students and hobby enthusiasts.
They are all leaving or have left the Adobe platform in favor of DaVinci. Simply because it's 100% free and legal to own. Schools still try to educate students with the Adobe system but outside the curriculum there is no more love for Premiere.
Many professional organisations are leaving the Avid platform now: it's very expensive, their file handling is a nightmare, people don't learn Avid anymore and Avid is completely clumsy for fast online productions with simple effects and different screen ratios. And those professional organisations also skip Adobe premiere as the go-to Avid replacement in favor of DaVinci.
As a long time motion designer and Adobe user, I am disappointed to see that even our broadcast station is also moving from Avid straight to DaVinci. I was really hoping for Premiere because of the Motion Graphics Templates and all the expression scripting I do. Because none of that works in Avid, we built an online Adobe renderer to solve that problem but now DaVinci is the Avid successor, I still won't find the desired direct integration with the workflow of our reporters. Since all Adobe apps integrate quite well, I see this as a very big loss of potential improvement.
I think Adobe really needs to reconsider their Premiere and After Effects strategy. Just trying to wing it all out as usual, is going to end in a disaster. Plus, DaVinci is far better in listening to what their users want and need. I'm not a DaVinci fan because it interferes with my way of working but if Adobe can't see they're sitting in an ivory tower, it will soon be too late to turn the Titanic's course.

[R Neil Haugen]

First, we users are always outsiders when it comes to the actual user base data. We're guessing, and so our speculations can be interesting but none of us has a really "insider data" crystal ball.

Second ... that said, I love these types of discussions! And prior disclosure and all ... I work for/with/teach pro colorists based mostly in Resolve, use both Pr and Resolve daily, have for a decade now. And I know many of the Pr, Ae, and Au staffers in person from meeting at NAB, MAX, or SMPTE events. I've been rather well "tied into" the Adobe pro video ecosystem for years also.

Adobe's pro video apps have several million daily users, more apparently than anyone else. Probably by a large margin. The Resolve user base could probably double, and the bean counters for Adobe Corporate would hardly notice any change.

Years ago, Adobe bought out the grading app Iridas and renamed it SpeedGrade, eventually putting a co-creator of that app (Patrick Palmer) in charge of all Adobe pro video for the last four years. Patrick has just left Adobe employ, btw.

But a few years after launching SpeedGrade, the then-management decided to kill it. Because the then-Adobe pro video boss spoke and wrote about all pro media should be going to Resolve so essentially why bother. (This was prior to Patrick taking over.)

This was right when BlackMagic was clearly expanding their editing, audio, and Fx capabilities. I posted rather publicly, on this forum, and in-person, and other places, strong (but always polite) criticism of that decision, and was essentially blacklisted for it by that Program manager.

I still think that was an incredibly stupid decision.

And all these years later, noted colorist/teacher/writer and Resolve expert Alexis Van Hurkman was moved to head of color for Premiere Pro/Pro Video just before NAB 2024. This could lead to some interesting changes ... or not, who knows? Alexis makes it clear he is not a fan of Lumetri.

PrPro has added the edit by transcript options, at this time still better than anyone else's though not nearly perfect. That has been a huge improvement for many of us.

They've expanded the capabilities of the in-built mogrt system via Essential Graphics some also, and there's always a quick trip to Ae to make things more bullet-proof or Awesome.

The subscription model still is an irritant for many users, no question. But that is a widely used model across all software types. From QuickBooks to you name it. And is a valid profit model.

BlackMagic's profits are based TOTALLY on hardware sales. Resolve is clearly, and totally, a loss-leader to get people into their ecosystem to buy hardware. I doubt that the very few people a year who actually pay the one-time $300 fee for "Studio" even cover the cost of providing that service.

So all of the cost of developing and maintaining Resolve comes from the leftovers of hardware sales. That of course has it's own implications. And their model is also a totally valid profit model.

Naturally, I have enough BM hardware to have several Studio licenses of Resolve sitting around. Including my new Ursa 4.6k G2, which ... wow. Awesome beast of a camera.

The design paradigms of Adobe and Blackmagic are strikingly different.

Adobe builds user-controlled flexibility into the UI and options as much as possible. This can lead perhaps to buggy or odd behavior out on the myriad of hardware/media/workflows we humans come up with, but it's awful handy when it works well. As it does normally for me.

BM intentionally limits user-controlled UI options among other things, expressly to keep operational stability up and consistency between users at maximum. But as they are trying to mimic the one-system-for-all-users thing of Adobe, they are getting a lot more stability issues across their user base.

Personally, as the person with nine numbered custom workspaces in Premiere Pro, and with a full Tangent Elements panel sitting on my desk, I love the flexibility of PrPro. I have good friends who don't like the Pr UI, and love the look and 'feel' of Resolve. I ... don't share that opinion, to be polite.

Adobe and BlackMagic are also strikingly different in their usage of hardware tools.

Adobe provides a pretty complete API for any 'tool' maker to use to integrate their products with any part of the app they want to. In Premiere, my Elements panel is a do-everything Swiss Army knife tool.

I have that mapped for not only color, but also audio and other stuff. The twelve knobs make a GREAT audio mixer interface, plus they can be used to move/size/rotate any screen element. The buttons ... well, they can be mapped to tons of stuff also.

BlackMagic intentionally limits all non-BM panels to very few and specific functions. They do not allow either the tool maker nor the user to modify those few, limited uses. Because of course, they want you to buy BM kit. 

But their panels only work in Resolve, they are not at all usable in any other application.

That alone is very irritating to me.

And I'm working up an "Insight" for MixingLight.com on mapping the Elements panel in Resolve for more functions, using Tangent-UK's new "Warp Engine" system for getting around Resolve's built in limitations.

As to codecs, well ... people complain about some codecs not being in Premiere, but then ... the BM staffers on the BM forum have made it very clear it will be a cold day in Hades before they add ProRes RAW to Resolve.

So ... different strokes for different folks, right? Pick your poisons, everyone's mileage always varies ...

But the work must get out to the nice customers that pays our bills! So use whatever works and ... get the work done, go see your family.

They're a lot more important than the apps.

[GeoffVane]

Neil, I really meant to say is that users are moving away. Especially younger people. It might not be a problem now, but it will be a problem in ten years if nothing changes.
The fact that one could have Adobe at home on a hobby computer to learn it and experiment with it, is in my opinion the reason why Adobe got as far as they did. The fact this all is now under a stricter regime may backfire.
I am so not used to Resolve that I won't use it if I don't have to. The way it works drives me nuts. But I'm definitely a minority.
I'm most of all a motion designer. Not a real editor. If you see a "real" editor at work with Avid, you can hardly believe how fast they can work just from the keyboard editing video only. I doubt if that speed can be achieved in Premiere. I've seen people work faster with Resolve too than in Premiere.
I really miss some essential tools like adding or substracting just a few frames around edit points: it never works like I want to or not at all. Every year I get a moment that I try find what I'm missing but I never succeed. Maybe I fail to find what I need, maybe my approach is wrong.
Then again, nothing beats Premiere when throwing stuff on the timeline and mash it up some. No conversions needed of footage, etc.etc. Perfect for quick and dirty cuts and some fast yet very effective effects.
 

[Pianistinator]

They've killed the hobbyist industry. It sucks. Most of us can't afford £600 a YEAR! So ridiculous. I only use Photoshop and Premiere Pro, why should I pay £50+ a month when I'm not making anything from it. 

[R Neil Haugen]

"They" haven't killed the hobbyist segment, that's growing fast. From all I can find in actual data, both Premiere and Resolve have a growing base, including in the low end markets. And the number of young people using PrPro on a daily basis is growing, not shrinking.

Next, several major editors have noted that Resolve is still lacking quite a few specific keyboard shorts that PrPro has, and so they prefer PrPro because it has better speed of shortcut use.

And finally, I've seen a number of editors that are crazy fast in PrPro, especially at the whole bringing clips to the sequence then trimming them a couple frames check one more check one more oops one more back in ... next clip.

So fast I can't even see exactly what they're doing.

It does have different names and a slightly different approach or methodology than Avid. But once you have that difference mastered, it's also fast.

That said, Avid clearly has some things PrPro's devs need to add.

[GeoffVane]

All I can find in actual data: I speak to students and amateurs. They quit or never begin with it anymore. Every student and amateur used to experiment with Adobe at home. I don't see that where I work these days. I agree that Adobe killed the hobbyist industry, as I do not see data in real life which contradicts that. When people don't make money with the suite, it should work for limited hours per month for free, or something like that. There are enough business users to justify that.

Editors crazy fast in PrPro, especially trimming a couple of frames: for many years I have tried to find a way to trim or extend clip in a existing sequence, by a few frames. I recently discovered the Q and W keys to trim like that but I never succeeded in adding a few frames without altering the shots before and after the clip I change. And the Q and W keys often mess up a complex sequence due to an unexpected result.

Avid clearly has some things PrPro's devs need to add: I'm not a real editor but people over at my station complain a lot when they use Ppro as it lacks certain important quick ways to cut. It's way better for simple effects and dealing with all kinds of footage and file hygiene. 

[RobShultz]

You get what you pay for. The dynamic linking between Premiere, AE and Audition is awesome. The compatabity with Photoshop and Illustrator is very valuable. If you want a time efficient way to produce professional products then the Adobe Suite can't be matched. 

[R Neil Haugen]

I'm amazed you have worked this long in Premiere and clearly don't know how to setup and use the timeline preferences and keyboard shorts and built-in trim processes. It's worth learning.

You are aware, I hope, of Trim mode, working with side-by-side looped images and tapping to set a new cut point? That sort of thing? The differences between roll/ripple/slip/slide, and how to use them simply by where you hold the cursor, not even needing keyboard shorts to change type of edit point?

One of the main arguments used on this and other forums over the last couple years is exactly opposite to your main premise. That is, that Premiere is designed for and used by a ton of noobs for YouTube et al use. Because it is certainly used by thousands of noobs for that stuff daily.

As Adobe has nearly free group licenses for schools to use, even our local high school is using the Adobe suite for all video/image/illustration creation classes, and won't even look at Resolve. So all those kids ... and millions more like them ... are getting started in Premiere.

That is Reality.

[Pianistinator]

I've seen an increasing number of posts where people are moving away from Adobe due to the price so, swings and roundabouts. The fact is if they made it £20 a month or less for 2 apps, or fairly matched inflation, or did it based on your proveable income, then I'd think that would drive more subscriptions.

[R Neil Haugen]

Seeing posts doesn't give data about squat.

The subscription numbers pretty much across the Adobe apps are doing fine. There's more people working with them than ever.

And as someone who works in both Premiere and Resolve daily ... that's great. Better for all of us.

[MyerPj]

<<Seeing posts doesn't give data about squat.>>

Ha, very funny Neil! Well said.

[Afdeling313101554na6]

Trim mode, working with side-by-side looped images and tapping to set a new cut point, the differences between roll/ripple/slip/slide, and how to use them simply by where you hold the cursor, not even needing keyboard shorts to change type of edit point? 

Trim mode: not sure what you mean by that.

Side-by-side looped images and tapping to set a new cut point: definitely not seen that.
Differences between roll/ripple/slip/slide: I know them somewhat but since I'm more of a motion designer, I keep forgetting what is what and the function that works with the Y shortcut, keeps confusing me: I always move in the wrong direction somehow.

How to use them simply by where you hold the cursor, not even needing keyboard shorts to change type of edit point: I don't know that. I sure would like to be able to tap a few keys to add or remove frames at the start or end of a clip. The mouse seems to blunt for that.

Not being able to slightly change clip length without messing with adjacent clips at all, has been a great frustration during my edit process. That is why I do not call myself an editor, even though I made many commercials oprorate movies during three decades. I see people do this on Avid and that's true editting in my view. And I tried to find Premiere tutorials about that for years but none seem to offer exactly what I need. Plus many editting tools can really destroy a timeline when you got several layers. But that's for later. If you can tell me how to fine tune a single video timeline, I would be helped a lot to begin with. I'm fed up using ripple delete and the A shortcut to constantly shift trains of clips back and forth, just to add or remove a few frames. It's amateurish. The Y tool could be handy too if it had key tapping but it's mouse only.

[R Neil Haugen]

Ahh, then, you simply haven't learned of the existence or how to use most of the tools, methods, and processes for trims in Premiere. As they are there.

Trim mode brings up side-by-side images in the Program monitor with timecode stamps.

The left image is the outgoing clip, the right image is the following clip. You can use keyboard shorts to go into Trim mode with Loop on, set to how many frames each way you want in the loop. 

Then watch the screens, and just tap the keyboard to change the cut point ... it loops through again ... if you like stop it, accepting that cut point. If not, let it go, tap the keyboard again to change the cut point ... until you like it.

Rolling cuts move the cut point without moving either clip. You gotta have enough frames of handles to do this of course, but it's a quick mouse move. In Rolling mode, you get a red vertical bar with arrows both ways. Simply slide the mouse to where you want the new cut point, click.

Ripple cuts only the selected clip, on the selected side of the cut, moving the following clip/s as needed. It's a yellow bar with arrows pointing to the clip being trimmed. It will pull back the back end, or the front end, either way, and move all following clips back if needed, or forward to close any gap created.

You can set the Prefs so you don't even need to use a keyboard short to get the Ripple or Rolling 'tool', as if you hover over the cut, it auto-goes to Rolling mode trimming, and if you hover over just to one side of a cut, it goes to Ripple mode trimming.

That is how my prefs are set ... and I do that a lot. It's handy enough I've not spent much time in Trim Mode over the years. But then, if I were doing fictional episodic or long-form, I'd spend a lot more time in Trim mode.

Then of course there's "slip" where you grab a clip, and you can push it over another clip, and Slide, where the edit points on either end stay the same, but you can move the clip you've 'grabbed' a bit left or right, therefore adjusting which segment of the clip is shown without changing cut length. (This is from memory ... admittedly, I do at times reverse the names of the Slip and Slide actions.)

And there are keyboard shorts for both nudging and cutting clips. There's the one for one frame at a time, and there's another for (default setting) five frames movement of clip or cut point at a time. But you can change how many frames the default is set to yourself.