Why don't you and your pals at abobe stop ruining your own software?

[J_Antho]

Then Kevin, why don't you and your pals at abobe stop ruining your own software?

If multiple project capability has been a long/greatly desired advent, then why on earth did you make it so unbearable and confusing?

Why would I want my projects to open within each other? Do you or have you ever used this software for actual video editing? Do you find this feature helpful?

I can't for the life of me think of an instance where'd I'd want my project to open inside another project where it combines my timeline sequences and places sequences from one project next to the sequences from the other.

I understand that in previous versions if I want files from another project, and I don't want to have to re-edit the shot, re-color correct it, etc, I can simply copy the file from the timeline, close that project, open the other project and paste and PRESTO, it's there.

Is the new multi-project addition supposed to help me in that I'm avoiding going between projects? Because if that's the case you missed the mark - as it's far more obnoxious to have to close premiere entirely so my projects aren't open and saving within each other.

This is broken, Kevin, that's why people are complaining about it. If you don't want people to offer alternative solutions to the vast problems Adobe continually creates, maybe you should consider waiting until your updates actually work, instead beta-testing through the users to keep subscriptions relevant.

You've created more problems than you've solved with the 2018 update.

[R Neil Haugen]

Why would I want my projects to open within each other? Do you or have you ever used this software for actual video editing? Do you find this feature helpful?

I can't for the life of me think of an instance where'd I'd want my project to open inside another project where it combines my timeline sequences and places sequences from one project next to the sequences from the other.

First, as to whether Kevin knows video editing ... if you know his bio at all, he's had a long career as an editor & colorist, including was a certified trainer for FCP back around what ... 4,5? Yea, he knows this stuff as a user.

Now ... you don't like the way it was implemented, so you insist it's broken. I was down at Adobe MAX when this was rolled out, and there were a ton of people there in the video tracks looking at it on their laptops & playing with this feature and basically crying glory hallelujah.

You aren't "wrong" and neither are those who've wanted exactly this behavior. You have different working practices, needs, and workflows.

Something everybody needs is to keep some perspective ... just because any one of us uses PrPro in "X" way doesn't mean any more than one of us uses PrPro in "X" way. Almost every editor I've ever talked with has had their own way that isn't the same as any other editor I know for nearly everything they do. It's one of the fascinating things of video post for me. Learning what each person does.

So ... yea, maybe having an 'enabling' toggle for multiple projects opening would be a good thing ... those that don't want it happening won't, and those wanting it can have it. File the feature request for it ... although they never respond, every feature or bug report filed gets on the collated list of such things distributed to all managerial types.

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Neil

[J_Antho]

Gee, thanks Neil. I came from a background of Pinnacle for 3 years, then FCP for 4 years before going to AP for the last 5 - everyone on here knows their "stuff".

I'm gonna go with the other users who find this feature extremely irritating before I look up the credentials of the Adobe members who post on here. Seems to me like this is a problem for the majority of users.

We're all experienced with this program, and your anecdotal evidence of "glory" doesn't take away from the fact this is a real problem that shouldn't have been forced.

Do you really get your subscription paid for by answering real questions with answers like, "Keep some perspective." ??

That sounds awesome.

"So ... yea, maybe having an 'enabling' toggle for multiple projects opening would be a good thing."

Ya think!?

Now that's an answer worth getting paid for if Adobe implements it.

[R Neil Haugen]

Sarcasm comes natural, eh?

And your group is the absolute authority on everyone's ideas of correct? Hmm.

The first is cool ... although sarcasm works a lot better in person than on the forums, as often sarcasm is actually intended to be a humorous outlet with a bit of an edge. On forums my native bent to sarcasm has been nailed several times as just seeming rude. So I tend to avoid it on public forums. Everyone's choice is their own, of course. (In person, I tend to have a lot of friends who practically live in sarcasm ... birds of a feather, perhaps ... )

The second ... my ideas of the Ideal Way for PrPro are just that, mine ... not anyone else's. And in your posts, you seem to define a real problem as basically anything that irritates you. While deprecating everyone who thinks otherwise.

That's not so cool. It's actually ... on a forum, without any other way to see facial expression, body language, what not ... sort of arrogant. There's quite a few thousands of people using this app. On another thread, a person is incredulous that PrPro doesn't have spell checking in the EGP. They thought this is something the everyone would want on the top of their list of changes. Another user posted right away that while he would appreciate a spell checker, it would realistically be WAY down his list of major changes needed, he'd rather engineer time go to his list of stuff first.

Yea ... we all have different ideas of what's great and what's useless. There's a ton of the effects that I don't use, but I spend a lot of time with color ... and Lumetri ... I can go over about any possible way to use it, but realistically ... it needs to my taste a major rebuilding, starting with the very assumptions of how it should work. I've been pretty direct about this both on the forums here and in person with the engineers at NAB and MAX.

And in threads on that on this forum, it's quite clear there are some that like the way Lumetri works now, or think it's entirely adequate, and don't want any effort spent on changing it as they'd rather have other things worked.

I don't attack them as being somehow illiterate in the program, non-professional, or anything. They have opinions and workflows and needs as valid as mine.

As you do. Your ideas, thoughts, and needs are as valid as anyone else's. The more people giving their experiences and opinions on here, the more useful this board can be.

I just ask you recognize that every one posting here will have different ideas. Let the ideas mix, mingle, and at times clash. No need to attack the other people for daring to have a different viewpoint.

Neil

[Heathenlamb]

I have been using Adobe products, Premiere and Photoshop particularly for well over a decade. I have only recently found a need to use this forum. It is only because of the open multiple projects issue. I understand that some people like it, I however do not. My frustration is born of the fact that it was not made a preference which would have surely been the ideal way to implement it.

That being said. I have found the tone of engagement from both yourself and Jim Strawn, to often be condescending and somewhat belittling. Which is not great from an ACP and a staff member. I'm sure it's not intentional but it's apparent. Maybe it's this perceived tone of reply that is perhaps inflating peoples reactions.

[R Neil Haugen]

After some of the comments questioning the professionalism, experience, and abilities of quite a few people raised earlier in  this thread, I find it intriguing you only find certain responses condescending and belittling but not others.

I totally agree that making a preference would be a great idea, and it would have been nice if that had been thought of and offered in the initial release. They don't always ask my opinion on those things, you know? (Humor there, I hope ... ) And had expressed the same up above several times. There's been some good comments in this thread, and I do hope as stated that the program people do put in an on-off toggle somewhere.

But then other things came in, from one post alone ...

Why would I want my projects to open within each other? Do you or have you ever used this software for actual video editing? Do you find this feature helpful?

I find that just a bit on the belittling/condescending side ... it seems pretty obvious to me. And rather unnecessary.

When I commented that others find it useful, that person immediately dissed anyone who does. Really? All I've been asking is for respect for the viewpoints of others.

Jstrawn's comment ... well, the guy's an engineer, and you go into messing with the code (which is what you sort of do going into the console) and he gets a bit freaked, probably. Drop the first phrase, and it's a very valid question ... why risk going into that console (which is NOT there for user use) and mashing your program, rather than just clicking to close something.

Could it have been phrased a bit milder, yea.

But then, compared to some of the aisle-way discussions among editors at NAB, this whole thread is pretty mild.

And for myself, I would vastly prefer you, danc... and all others posting here to visit this forum and state the case for your ways of working more often. This app is used in SO many different ways by so many people. The more ideas and yes, disagreements here, the more the 'base' can try and pull the program along.

Because in reality, that's part of the way this all works, whether anyone likes it or not. Threads & posts here count a little, those bug/feature reports count a lot more ... but the flow of information and ideas between users is something that ends up helping us all get work out when the dang thing fritzes or we're unsure how to do something we maybe don't do everyday.

Neil

[J_Antho]

Neil,

"But then other things came in, from one post alone ..."

"Why would I want my projects to open within each other? Do you or have you ever used this software for actual video editing? Do you find this feature helpful?"

These were legitimate questions - not trying to be insulting. I was actually curious if directives for PP are decided by experienced video editors, and if they personally found this useful and if they use it.

I'm definitely being condescending towards you at this point, because you have written pretty lengthy replies that haven't helped anything.

I wasn't dissing anyone who finds it useful - I asked Jim why he's on a thread describing a problem he doesn't appear to view as a problem - and I actually agree with him.

My point was for all the users who actually do find this more hindering than helpful.

[R Neil Haugen]

That's where the limitations of the forum process can come into play. The "Do you or have you ever ... " bit comes across to me as very demeaning ... although from your explanation I can accept you didn't mean it that way.

It's why I had to learn to stop trying any humor or sarcasm on here, even when replying on a thread where I was "known" and knew the others ... someone else could come along and find it rude or whatever.

I've been only asking for consideration for alternative viewpoints. And respect for different workflows.

You'd be a great addition as a regular here, you know ... we've plenty of noobs, which is naturally what everyone is at the start of learning this process and this app. More experienced people both helping others out ... and jogging ideas along for the program ... is always good.

Neil

[J_Antho]

I'll keep that in mind, and I'll try to seem less testy and demeaning in the future should I contribute to a discussion - looking back, I guess I can be kind of surly when agitated.

I'm not trying to disrespect anyone's workflow, as I'm sure there are people on here with more knowledge and experience than I - merely adding to the discussion of the users who aren't thrilled with PP2018.

I think Jim's solution is my answer though - file close project, file open project.

I imagine many users don't like going to open recent like they always have, and having the file selected open within the currently open project. I know that's been throwing me for a loop and causing me to just close PP and reopen the project I want.

The option to turn of multi-project editing when you don't need it could be advantageous for users who don't want or need that function all the time.

[J_Antho]

Wow, Neil, you put so many words in my mouth. Do you also write books? Or is this your only outlet?

Of course my ideas of correct and problematic don't blanket all users' experience - but in the context of the issue described in this thread on this forum, I don't see how anything you've said is useful to the problem at hand. Many users don't like this new feature.

So as opposed to recognizing this as a problem (I wouldn't have been led here if it wasn't), we should all keep an open mind and understand that many users do like this feature?

Okay, great - many users like it, and many don't - so how about making it an option instead of forcing it?

I combat feigned relevance with sarcasm, if you want to take things personally that's up to you.

This isn't about you, or me; I came on here in hopes that since so many others on here have found this problematic, that maybe Adobe will give us options with their next installment.

"I do see why some would love to have a toggle to enable/disable this ... I think that would be a great addition to the Preferences dialog, and put in the feature report for it. I'd leave it on, but it would be easy for others to turn it off."

Help make that happen and I'll take you seriously, since you're getting paid to be on here and I appear to be wasting my time..

[R Neil Haugen]

If you look at my prior comments before you jumped in, I'd been quite pleased to welcome a toggle/preference option. And "getting paid to be on here" ... seriously? One CC license? I don't sell that cheap. Don't sell at all. I spend a lot more time helping people get going when either they don't understand what's happening to their work, or when the thing has crashed and then need to figure out how to get around some stupid problem with the program, to think the one CC license is "pay".

Again ... your fanboy allusions crash on their own. I've pasted "Adobe" enough over the years in this and the SpeedGrade forum plus in person to give a rat's backside about it. It's pretty clear to see.

So yes, I've filed that feature report, even though I wouldn't use it, as I've done a ton of times in the past for features that I understand others would find great but I'll never ever use myself.

We all work differently, we all need different options. I can't see why one gets testy about others wanting different options. I assume we all want slightly different choices available, and hope the engineers can make this as enabling for different processes and workflows as we'd all hope.

So reading back through this thread, I'm just wondering where the heck you came up with the idea I'm against having a toggle thing? I've agreed it would be a good idea since the top, well before you started participating.

So ... to be clear ... before you commented, I was agreeing with a change to allow you to have what you want.

Neil

[J_Antho]

I never said you're against it, Neil. In fact, I only urged you to run with your idea of having the option to turn it off.

Glad you did.

[Jim_Simon]

If multiple project capability has been a long/greatly desired advent, then why on earth did you make it so unbearable and confusing?

I find the current functionality rather efficient and effective.

[J_Antho]

Congrats. Why are you on this forum?

[R Neil Haugen]

Me too, Jim ... had wanted this for a while, and have used it several times already. It's been very handy.

I do see why some would love to have a toggle to enable/disable this ... I think that would be a great addition to the Preferences dialog, and put in the feature report for it. I'd leave it on, but it would be easy for others to turn it off.

Neil

[Jim_Simon]

I do see why some would love to have a toggle to enable/disable this

I don't.  Closing a project first is reeeeeeal simple.

[J_Antho]

That's a good point.

You know what else was reeeeeal simple? Going to file, open recent, and having that file open INSTEAD of the currently open project rather than opening within it.

You do make a very solid argument though, closing a project before opening another is very simple, but I don't think that's the point (hard to say what IS the point given your very real solution to the problem).

It looks like many users (myself included) are frustrated after years of not having this capability, now suddenly it's how PP operates, and it's very probelematic to someone who goes between their projects a lot to have to close each one and open another instead of just opening another file and having it alone.

[R Neil Haugen]

This is a great comment ... coalesces the whole discussion.

Yep ... file those F/R's ...

Neil

[Steve Love SD]

Hi,

First off, sorry you have had to deal with so many people that are not able to have a civilized discussion on the matter.

I do believe that I will be able to get used to this feature as this is how it was when I used FCP many years ago.

I also believe that making it optional will be a huge improvement, so that will be great if that comes about.

My issues is that when I open a new project, the window opens up separate from the other project window, off to the side.  It is not in a tab next to the other project so that I can toggle back and forth.  Is there a setting to make that happen?

Thank you.

Kyle

[BrianDavison]

I've got the same issue, Kyle. In fact, a majority of the time, it opens up showing only the bottom bit, with the top half hanging off the top of the screen and no way to move it aside from closing (window, not project) and reopening.

I've also had profound issues with bin management (making multiple copies of the same named bin.)

In theory this multiple projects thing should be helpful, but right now it's just a bit of a pain for me. (Especially since CC 2018 update broke a lot of media browser functionality for me.)

[R Neil Haugen]

There's some bin issues it seems ... some things imported pop up in random bins, and some of the multiple projects things seem to mess with bins occasionally for some folks.

Neil

[R Neil Haugen]

Yea, that's really a pain, isn't it? Every time I use it, the second project gets a panel way off to the right, and to get them close to actually MOVE things or use them together, I first need to maximize the panel, move the tab, minimize the panel, and get to work.

Really? Yea, that could work better. And I haven't found a way to get that to work best, so that's another feature request, please join me ... lol

Neil

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

[Kevin-Monahan]

Neil,

Yea, that's really a pain, isn't it? Every time I use it, the second project gets a panel way off to the right, and to get them close to actually MOVE things or use them together, I first need to maximize the panel, move the tab, minimize the panel, and get to work.

Check out the preference for General > Bins > Open In New Tab. Working better now? At least new projects open in place if it's set that way.

Thanks,

Kevin

[R Neil Haugen]

Not sure how this helps ... those settings are for double, alt, & control click of bins, where the issue I was referring to is when doing project/open-recent to add a second open project, it always puts the tab for that project at the far right end of the Project panel.

Even when opening a second project with the project panel maximized, it 1) goes to Edit mode, 2) minimizes the project panel, 3) adds a random sequence from the new project to the currently opened timeline area, and 4) puts the new project's tab at the far right end.

Normally, I don't want a random sequence added to the open ones, what I want is to be able to mix/match project bits. Which means mostly undoing most of what PrPro did so I can have the project panel maximized and move the tabs closer to be better able to mix/match elements.

That make sense?

Neil

[Steve Love SD]

Thanks Kevin,

That helped.  I also had to be in the Editing workspace.  I like editing in the Effects workspace so that was putting the entire Project window off to the side, and I couldn't figure out how to re-dock the window.  I was able to go in to the edit workspace and rearrange things so it looked like the edit workspace and saved it as my workspace so I should be good to go now.

Kyle