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Deeply concerned over new terms of service agreement

Explorer ,
Jun 06, 2024 Jun 06, 2024

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I was seeing that people were launching Photoshop and seeing an agreement they had to accept in order to launch it, and it sounded like anything at all being created or altered in Photoshop could be used by Adobe in any way they want. I did not see this same thing pop-up in After Effects, this morning. Does anyone know if this is being planned for After Effects as well? My concern is that clients will not allow me to use After Effects, at all, if any footage I use in it is being sent to Adobe to be used however they like.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Jun 18, 2024 Jun 18, 2024

Adobe has posted updated Terms with explainers:

https://www.adobe.com/legal/terms.html

and responses from an interview with Scott Belsky:

https://petapixel.com/2024/06/18/adobes-terms-of-use-controversy-provided-an-opportunity-to-improve/

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correct answers 1 Pinned Reply

Adobe Employee , Jun 07, 2024 Jun 07, 2024

Hey, @atnajoy

 

We understand your concerns and recommend visiting our blog post for clarification on our Terms of Use update: https://adobe.ly/3yOKzop

 

Thanks!
Sameer K

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LEGEND ,
Jun 05, 2024 Jun 05, 2024

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:eyeroll: ok.

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Explorer ,
Jun 05, 2024 Jun 05, 2024

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Thx,

Adobe needs to own its responsibities. Apologizing after their theft or negligence has beeb caught is not sufficient. 

They need to develop and publish principles (more than just policy) and they need to inculcate those principles throughout their organization.

The idea of some good, custom, alternative software, developed with respect for users, is appealing.  Both PhotoShop and Premiere are "bloated" these days and ripe for competion. 

Adobe is just a company and PhotoShop is just a consumer product - neither are worthy of "loyalty".  They need to earn users' trust and confidence or lose customers.

Cheers All!

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Community Expert ,
Jun 05, 2024 Jun 05, 2024

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That article is out of date. This one is more current.

Adobe Removes AI Images in the ‘Style of Ansel Adams’ After Complaint

quote

Adobe responded to the message from Adams’ account thanking it for flagging the issue and stating that the image “go against our Generative AI content policy.”

 

However, it is not hard to find other examples like this that have not been removed. The problem is not with their posted policy, because Adobe officially does not support this. The real problem is effective content filtering. It’s too easy to flood any stock service with uploads. This is affecting many social media and stock media companies: They say they don’t allow it, but the content moderation tools are not good enough to block bulk violators before they show up on the stock site.

 

This is not to excuse the behavior. It is unacceptable. There need to be better ways to block images that violate the policy. But, this also turns the light on “looking for alternatives.” This problem is so bad that it might be hard to find companies that don’t have this same problem with content pirates flooding their stock media. Also, many Photoshop alternatives are adding AI features, so now you have to find out whose images they are using to train their AI models. (Adobe discloses their AI training sources.)

 

For example, right now I have opened one of the most popular and affordable alternatives to Photoshop, and this photo program has a Stock panel where you can bring in stock media. But that company doesn’t have their own stock service, so where do their stock photos come from? Pixabay. That is a service where anyone can upload anything and the Pixabay home page says that you can download them for free, “…safe to use without attribution - even for commercial purposes.” That means no credit and no compensation to artists. The Pixabay terms and conditions do say you must warrant that your uploads don’t infringe on a copyright, but Adobe terms say that too. Again…it’s really about whether a service has tools that can effectively block infringing uploads.

 

So, if you want something other than Photoshop you will need to look very carefully to avoid the same problem elsewhere. The entire industry needs to figure out this huge problem.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 08, 2024 Jun 08, 2024

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No place else to really post this, so I put it here.

 

I really have the voice that I disliked the new terms of service,  By agreeing to it, Adobe, you get to spy on and look at all my content.

 

I have to sign nondedisclosure agreements with clients, But now you get to see my stuff and in essence, Breaking my terms of service with clients... So they can sue me.

 

It's really a lot of bs. I've used your products and giving you so much money. And now you're spying on me? I disliked moving to the cloud platform. And now you get to have access to look at all my stuff, whether I want to or not.. Just so you could train a I? When will you start caring about your customers? And stop treating them like commodities were already paying you enough.

 

I want to voice my disagreement with this new tos and that you should roll back this nonsense ASAP. For real... Allow us to create stuff and not worry about Big Brother Spying on what we're making and forcing us to break contractual agreements, we have with clients that pay us so we can pay you. 

 

Provide tools and allow us to create freely. Not worry about having our intellectual properties stolen by Adobe or worse. 

 

Or give us the programs for free, and then the commodity will be what we make.  

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Community Expert ,
Jun 08, 2024 Jun 08, 2024

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Participant ,
Jan 26, 2023 Jan 26, 2023

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Adobe's "opt-out" policy for content aquisition to feed their Ai system is a major breach of privacy and is completely unacceptable. For those who have not heard: Adobe has assumed the right to feed any of your creative work into it's Ai training program. This permission is in the form of an Opt-out setting that can only be accessed through your Creative Cloud settings hidden in the browser interface. This permission setting is not available in the Creative Cloud app at all. You are not notified that they are using anything hosted in their cloud service for their own uses.Additionally, if you use mobile Lightgroom, Adobe has silently given itself permission to upload any image on your mobile device into their cloud hosted storage. It does this without any permissions granted by you, nor does it notify you it has happened. Adobe is assuming permission to absorb any work created with the assistance of their software for their own uses. This is a major violation of trust and privacy! It is unacceptable that my work, work I created under NDAs with my clients or in the privacy of my studio, should be fed into Adobe's Ai training, or any other function of their software. Adobe, stop stealing IP from your users!

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Community Expert ,
Jan 27, 2023 Jan 27, 2023

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This is the Photoshop Forum, please post Lightroom-related posts on the Lightroom Forum. 

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Participant ,
Jan 27, 2023 Jan 27, 2023

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It is a broader issue than just Lightroom. There is no forum dedicated to the entire suite, so I am posting it here.

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Community Expert ,
Jan 27, 2023 Jan 27, 2023

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Is your NDA content stored on Adobe's servers? If not then this does not apply.

In the meantime, you may want to read up on what they are actually using it for instead of claiming they are "stealing IP from your users":

https://helpx.adobe.com/manage-account/using/machine-learning-faq.html#CanIturnoffoptoutofmachinelea...

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Participant ,
Jan 27, 2023 Jan 27, 2023

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@kevin stohlmeyerAccorting to the document at that link, any asset that uses Adobe's cloud storage would be avilable for Ai learning, unless a user opts-out of the service. If I am sharing libraries with co-workers on a project, any one of them could be exposing protected IP to Adobe's Ai. If I am using Lightroom Mobile and do not opt-out of the auto-upload feature, all of my images could be accessed by Adobe's Ai without my knowledge.

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Community Expert ,
Jan 27, 2023 Jan 27, 2023

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Correct - if you are using services that utilize Adobe storage by default your images could be use to train machine learning/AI/Adobe Sensei unless you choose to opt out. Hence why there is an opt-out. You're in control.

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Explorer ,
Jan 23, 2024 Jan 23, 2024

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Your reply sure invites the thought it's disingenuous.

 The issue is not "you are in control" but the fact Adobe chose to by default without asking opt everyone in.  Why not ask first?

 

or did I misinterpret what Adobe did? 

 

things the kind of thing other data collecting companies have done over the years and it erodes trust in the brand 

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Community Expert ,
Jan 23, 2024 Jan 23, 2024

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The initial assessment is wrong. Adobe used Adobe stock to feed its AI and indemnified the contributors royally. I know because I'm a contributor and the payout amount was the best in my carrier. Then they used public domain pictures. Public domain pictures are there to being used. There is nothing bad. 

 

As for the rest of what the OP ranted: Adobe asked for years to get your consent to use certain statistics and data to improve their services. For years, I have opted out. That's it.

ABAMBO | Hard- and Software Engineer | Photographer

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Explorer ,
Jun 11, 2024 Jun 11, 2024

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Again, the issue is the default-opt in.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 11, 2024 Jun 11, 2024

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There is no default opt-in. The only part that you can't opt out is when you use Adobe cloud space services, like uploading data to the cloud. For doing certain things, Adobe needs  your consent. No consent, you can't use online services. But anyhow, if you are concerned about the use of your data, do not use cloud storage. All cloud storage providers need somehow accessing your data. 

 

BTW, even offline services access your data and they are potentially sending data to their servers, like an antivirus checker. 

 

Check the terms with your lawyer instead of doing social media legal work.

ABAMBO | Hard- and Software Engineer | Photographer

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Explorer ,
Jun 13, 2024 Jun 13, 2024

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Yes sir, there was a default opt-in 1-2 years ago when using the cloud. And nothing seems to have changed- I followed the links on the fine print and yes, it sure seems Adobe can use images still to train for AI.  BTW, whether other people are doing this or not is irrelevant to the point.

 

"isntead of doing social media legal work"- I am not doing "social media legal work"- I am reading what it says right there, by Adobe.

 

Adobe shoudl have beeen quite quite clear this could happen by popping up specific dialogs, but they didn't do that. Well see where this ends up now.

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Participant ,
Jun 08, 2024 Jun 08, 2024

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okay, so why was I unable to opt out before it took effect?
why was the opt-in closing the message?
in the time it took to handle things, adobe did have access to dozens of videos and images of nude models who explicitly requested that none of it is released before being edited and censored.

This is a major breach of privacy, and most likely the law, because in the time it takes to opt-out, a current user's data is currently being taken.

by being opt-out, adobe has created a system in which nonconsenting users cannot stop the system before their data is scraped, even if if they disagree with the TOS.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 08, 2024 Jun 08, 2024

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why don't you cease using adobe's cloud services?

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Participant ,
Jun 08, 2024 Jun 08, 2024

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I do a lot of work under NDA. some of it has been on creative cloud. I was unable to reject the new TOS because it's accepted by... using your computer at all after being told...?

This can't be legal. Adobe just broke my NDA's for me. They have confidential data, and not only that, uncensored, explicit images of nude models who only agreed on the condition they were tastefully edited and censored before release or use, which were sent to and stored on my creative cloud.

Adobe- I cannot use this service. it is a disservice now, and you have disrespected me, my clients, film ethics, and the spirit of the law, and most likely, actual laws.
Is there a way I can seek reimbursement for damages, or is this another in the long line of screw-you's? I don't even use adobe any more, but I did have some leftover stuff in the account at the time the TOS took effect.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 08, 2024 Jun 08, 2024

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<merged from cc services>

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Community Expert ,
Jun 11, 2024 Jun 11, 2024

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If you are this concerned about standard TOS and you are working with NDA, you should consult your legal resources. They will set you straight.

 

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Explorer ,
Jun 08, 2024 Jun 08, 2024

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I was not aware that the updated Adobe terms of use allows both AI and human access to content. I have signed NDA's with one of the worlds 3 largest music companies, one of the worlds 3 largest music promotion  companies and two of the worlds largest entertainment franchises as have created test content that for legal reasons cannot be shown to anyone outside of those organisations as includes test performances and rights managed content .

 

I understand that "at the moment"  Adobe are not viewing content on local drives but what happens with content which is shared for review?

 

I need an answer on what content Adobe are actually viewing and what they are doing with it e.g. sharing with third parties. I need to ensure my clients that their content is safe. if not I have no choice but to cancel my subscription. Many of my colleagues are in the same situation and if this is not resolved there could be mass cancelations due to the legal contracts that creators have to sign with various clients.

 

For example some colleagues work on design and documentation for patented medical products. Any access to the data on this documentation in advance of launch could lead to disastrous circumstances.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 08, 2024 Jun 08, 2024

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in the future, to find the best place to post your message, use the list here, https://community.adobe.com/

p.s. i don't think the adobe website, and forums in particular, are easy to navigate, so don't spend a lot of time searching that forum list. do your best and we'll move the post (like this one has already been moved) if it helps you get responses.



<"moved and merged from using the community">

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Explorer ,
Jun 08, 2024 Jun 08, 2024

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Many thanks for moving the post.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 09, 2024 Jun 09, 2024

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quote

 

I understand that "at the moment"  Adobe are not viewing content on local drives but what happens with content which is shared for review?

 

By @Simon_Atterbury

Shared for review: If you have a doubt don't use remote systems. You can built your own cloud service, secure that against illicit access and share your content there. Most users simply do not have the expertise to do so. I have the expertise (theoretically), but would not do that. I do not have the resources. 

 

Either you trust your service provider (not only Adobe for Creative Cloud, but also your e-mail provider, your internet provider, DropBox or WeTransfer, Microsoft or Apple) or you need to unplug your computer and work offline.

 

ABAMBO | Hard- and Software Engineer | Photographer

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