No more Muse, what about DW?

[wefollow]

I really don't know what do to after using Muse.

I started using the Dreamweaver with StudioMx  but few months ago started using Muse.

Muse......March 26, 2018 we will release the final feature improvement release ...

Adobe doesn't even recommend Dreamweaver.

Should I come back to Dw?

Really need you advice.

thank you for reading,

James

[B i r n o u]

It doesnt really affect my business because I'm not really 'actively' looking for any these days. My situation is the least of my problems because I dont depend on web-development to make a living. I suspect its harder for real developers starting these days who want to be able freelance, start their own business, or maybe even get a leg on the ladder in paid employment in the industry, as result of it being opened up to skilless people.

We can not generalize and reduce to your observation ...
I think that when we started in this sector, the sector also started ... and we had to respond to multiple needs ... today, the sector has largely developed and even fragmented into multiple needs ... the problem is just that contrarily to a few years ago, today there are many more candidates ...

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

It doesnt really affect my business because I'm not really 'actively' looking for any these days. My situation is the least of my problems because I dont depend on web-development to make a living. I suspect its harder for real developers starting these days who want to be able freelance, start their own business, or maybe even get a leg on the ladder in paid employment in the industry, as result of it being opened up to skilless people.

We can not generalize and reduce to your observation ...

No, why not? It's pretty obvious that the more automation of any industry, where skill is not needed, will affect its ability to sustain the volumes of employees, freelancers, companies that were previously operating in a professional capacity.

[B i r n o u]

No, why not? It's pretty obvious that the more automation of any industry, where skill is not needed, will affect its ability to sustain the volumes of employees, freelancers, companies that were previously operating in a professional capacity.

<joke>you should jump from the planet ... shout a good blow ... and with your little muscular arms prevent the earth from turning and globalization from happening ... especially in the digital ...</joke>

I do not think that removing the possibility for designers to express themselves through a graphical interface will put the balance in this direction ... on the contrary, many designers have the opportunity to express themselves and produce content. without having to learn code ... then nothing prevents developers to help designers produce what might seem impossible ....

[osgood_]

Globalization indeed....... count the victims left in its wake. Way to go for sure.

[B i r n o u]

I never said that I was approuving the globalization... ?.... where did you read it... ?

what I said, or at least meant ... in response to what you were announcing ...

No, why not? It's pretty obvious that the more automation of any industry, where skill is not needed, will affect its ability to sustain the volumes of employees, freelancers, companies that were previously operating in a professional capacity.

I used joke tags to denounce an impotence to everyone to fight against this globalization ... an that was a globalization that affects the entire industry principaly agriculture, energy source, breeding, food production, mass production, relocation, leveling down, lobotomisation by reality TV, impoverishment of education, amplification of the social divide, absurd geopolitics, artificial intelligence, transhumanism .. . ... that was in response to your previous quote

but...

I keep saying that offering only graphical interfaces for those who do not want to work in code (because that was the initial point) , will not come to light up or interfere with the globalization of the overall industry...

these are for me two totally separate subjects

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

I keep saying that offering only graphical interfaces for those who do not want to work in code (because that was the initial point) , will not come to light up or interfere with the globalization of the overall industry...

In your opinion, not mine. There is intrinsically nothing different - globalization affects any industry it cares to wash over. Its 'progress' in the eyes of some but it brings with it many casualties.

[B i r n o u]

comme l'anglais semble ne pas être suffisamment explicite pour traduire ce que je pense, j'use de ma propre langue, après tout participer à un forum international devrait ne pas causer de problème à quelqu'un qui souhaite faire apprendre à tout le monde ses propres langages quotidien... donc y compris l'anglais...

je disais que le fait de mettre à disposition des interfaces visuelles pour les designers qui n'auraient pas à utiliser de code, n'a rien avoir avec la mondialisation... en fonction des contextes, on appelle cela de l'ergonomie, ou encore de l'amélioration d'expérience utilisateur, ou bien de l'assistance

vous remarquerez au passage, que comme je prends le soin d'écrire de manière claire et non argotique , les auto-traducteurs fonctionneront de manières limpides.

au fait, les traducteurs sont à la communication, ce que les outils de développement à interfaces graphiques sont au designers

[osgood_]

'Further improvement of user experience, or assistance'

I seem to remember a certain Amazon amongst many others using the same kind of mantra to justify their world dominance and boarding up high street shops into the equation.

[B i r n o u]

I seem to remember a certain Amazon amongst many others using the same kind of mantra to justify their world dominance and boarding up high street shops into the equation.

so as you use Dreamweaver I think that you're most using Windows or OSx but not linux...

and when you say

... amongst many others ....

so if you use windows, you 're not using DOS and Shell ... so you means that  windows was first largely befor Amazon to improve GUI among DOS

and if you use OSx... well in the GAFA... Aple is in the same seat than Amazon... don't you think... and Jobs was going further than just OS... but including phone, and communication private world

so, on that side of the GUI, every one of us is embarked on the same promises... except to live in a world without a network

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

so as you use Dreamweaver I think that you're most using Windows or OSx but not linux...

I dont use Dreamweaver, I know of it. I think its a web editor, or trying to be, right?

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

and when you say

... amongst many others ....

so if you use windows, you 're not using DOS and Shell ... so you means that  windows was first largely befor Amazon to improve GUI among DOS

and if you use OSx... well in the GAFA... Aple is in the same seat than Amazon... don't you think... and Jobs was going further than just OS... but including phone, and communication private world

so, on that side of the GUI, every one of us is embarked on the same promises... except to live in a world without a network

Rather than confuse things and make things complex, as you seem to like doing, think of it this way:

All automation at some point will effect whatever industry it's applied too. If web-design is to become the domain of designers we lose more coders, just as we lost skilled cabinet makers when the 'robots' took over and laser cut the parts out of chipboard, instead of real wood. These methods bought a cheap and cheeful product which was welcomed by the general public, the casuality in all this was the craftman. I care that we try and keep our skilled craftsmen, who produce quality work, not those who are just here to make money, at any expense.

[B i r n o u]

it's impressive the denial of some eventualities ...

today I was stuck in front of an interface to make the hotline ... Fortunately our products are good and there was little activity ...  I have been able to spend time answering this giant brewing of air, in the face of answers, which only return denial, bad faith and push to always go around in circles ... extracting an element, taking it out context and answer beside to the real question ...

you do not use dreamweaver, that's fine, but recognize that the bottom line of the question was that anyway you work on a GUI ... no?...

arf arf ...

and what about automation tools ... you are in complete contradiction with yourself ... you refuse the use of a graphical interface intended for non-coders for the web ... or at least you make it responsible for contributing to the disappearance of true coders ...

but is this not you whose some time ago who talked about layout tools for printing ... ??? hu ... I would have thought that you still write the postcript by hand ... as at the time where Xpress (antes InDesign) , or pagemaker, did not yet manage the points of background frames and even less transparency and other cuts in EPS format and that it was necessary to manually enter the postcript in the text, through dedicated panels ...

let's go ... arf arf!

well my period of hot line is over ... I will join my family and share a meal with mackerel caught this weekend ... barbecue with provencal sauce ... and a small dry white wine ... (enjoy Paula)... cheers

[osgood_]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

it's impressive the denial of some eventualities ...

today I was stuck in front of an interface to make the hotline ... Fortunately our products are good and there was little activity ...  I have been able to spend time answering this giant brewing of air, in the face of answers, which only return denial, bad faith and push to always go around in circles ... extracting an element, taking it out context and answer beside to the real question ...

Thankfully you recognise you are talking about yourself, some little progress there then.

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

and what about automation tools ... you are in complete contradiction with yourself ... you refuse the use of a graphical interface intended for non-coders for the web ... or at least you make it responsible for contributing to the disappearance of true coders ...

but is this not you whose some time ago who talked about layout tools for printing ... ??? hu ... I would have thought that you still write the postcript by hand ... as at the time where Xpress (antes InDesign) , or pagemaker, did not yet manage the points of background frames and even less transparency and other cuts in EPS format and that it was necessary to manually enter the postcript in the text, through dedicated panels ...

DTP is a completely different concept, when you understand that maybe you will understand better the concept of web. Dont you think being that I am a fully qualified DTP operator/designer that it would be me saying that I endorse the use of a pure graphical interface for web-development. You show me one that exists, without all the redundant code it produces and that can do what a good coder can and I'll use it.

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

well my period of hot line is over ...

My enquiry has not been answered, please ellevate my complaint to your superior.

[BenPleysier]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u  wrote

well my period of hot line is over ... I will join my family and share a meal with mackerel caught this weekend ... barbecue with provencal sauce ... and a small dry white wine ... (enjoy Paula)... cheers

My entree last Sunday at the local restaurant

Braised Barramundi and Clams in White Wine and Cream

[B i r n o u]

it looks really appealing ...

[pziecina]

Yourmaking me hungry Ben, and I've only just had my breakfast.

[Nancy OShea]

Adobe has decided to extend the Muse technical support period from 15 months to 24 months, now ending in March of 2020.   This gives Musers additional time to seek out alternatives.

Product Announcement

[pziecina]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

Adobe has decided to extend the Muse technical support period from 15 months to 24 months, now ending in March of 2020.   This gives Musers additional time to seek out alternatives.

Product Announcement

I just hope that Adobe Spark will be a viable alternative for them. A lot will depend on Muse users accepting that Muse itself was not up to real rwd site creation.

[Nancy OShea]

pziecina  wrote

I just hope that Adobe Spark will be a viable alternative for them. A lot will depend on Muse users accepting that Muse itself was not up to real rwd site creation.

If it's anything like current Spark or Adobe Portfolio, it will miss the mark on many things.   But it might work reasonably well for some projects.   We'll have to wait & see.

In the meantime,  Musers who have tried other products (Pinegrow, Webflow, Sparkle App , etc..) are finding that Muse was letting them down in ways they didn't imagine.   RWD is just one example.   

[pziecina]

From the very little I have heard about the next version of Spark, I believe the future Spark that is in pre-release is to be aimed at a different market than the present version.

Only time will tell though, Adobe has promised much when it comes to web design/development, but somehow always pulls back from those final features that would make the product a winner.

[W_J_T]

pziecina  wrote

It has become normal that it is not allowed to tell anyone that they cannot do whatever they wish to do, so people are becoming rich providing those who 'do not know' with the tools to do 'what they cannot do'. Then those who 'cannot do' think they 'can do' and sell what they produce to those who know even less.

I really enjoyed reading that.

[W_J_T]

I think the reason behind the extension was more about Adobe realizing Spark etc., won’t be ready in time. So they wanted to keep Muse customers tethered longer to Adobe for transitioning them to another Adobe product (whatever that may be). Time will tell if anything was worth the wait for those whom do.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

All automation at some point will effect whatever industry it's applied too.

You could argue that even the simplest code editor is a basic attempt at automation, and if we forget the cheap labour being used mobile devices would still be outsite of the price range of all but the very rich without automation.

Don't ever fly, as those who service those aircraft between flights are only semi-skilled, with very, (and I mean very) little training. Airlines found it to expensive to used skilled engineers, for such basic tasks, (cheap flights are what many people want).

The front end of web sites now fall into the same category, many businesses do not require a web site but think they should have one. Money is the only reason that such buisnesses are sold sites they do not need.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

You could argue that even the simplest code editor is a basic attempt at automation,

Its a basic tool much like a chisel is to a cabinet maker, the cabinet maker has to have the skills to deploy that tool as does a coder need to have the skills to deploy the simple code editor. The automation I'm addressing is the predominately drag and drop workflow which requires little knowledge and little skill in terms of fully understanding what is happening and why. It must be like driving around blindfold...........how many ridiculously simple code answers have i had to provide today...............all as a result of not knowing the very basics about coding......yet trying to produce a website.

[pziecina]

osgood_  wrote

.....how many ridiculously simple code answers have i had to provide today...............all as a result of not knowing the very basics about coding......yet trying to produce a website.

Wellcome to getting old, and these days that is anyone over 45.

It has become normal that it is not allowed to tell anyone that they cannot do whatever they wish to do, so people are becomming rich providing those who 'do not know' with the tools to do 'what they cannot do'. Then those who 'cannot do' think they 'can do' and sell what they produce to those who know even less.

[osgood_]

pziecina  wrote

Wellcome to getting old

Something I can't deny and grumpy too!