Adobe Creative Cloud and Adobe Creative Suite: New Choices for Customers

[Peter Spier]

Adobe has announced the new Cloud-based model for software distribution, along with new terms for boxed product upgrade eligibility. Beginning with the CS6 releases, when they happen, upgrade pricing on boxed products will only be availble one generation back. There is a limited window to upgrade now to the current versions at a discount.

See http://blogs.adobe.com/conversations/2011/11/adobe-creative-cloud-and-adobe-creative-suite-new-choic...

[AlReeev]

Thanks Peter,

Assuming that this policy is actually put in place, InDesign will get to be too expensive, much too expensive, for the odd newsletter editors, small volume publishers and hobbyists. I/we shall have to either stick with our current version of InDesign or move to something like Pages --- which, it works surprisingly well for relatively simple stuff. <sad sighs>

[Steve Werner]

Good point. Adobe will definitely lose the lower end of their users. Pages is $19.99, downloaded from the Mac App Store. Of course, it's not nearly as complete as InDesign, but you can actually use it to create EPUB files according to reports I've read.

[Stix_Hart]

Looks good.  Does anyone know what they mean by "workgroups"?  There will definitely be the luddites that think everything should stay the same though... 

@AlReeev, you're not making much sense, for occasional users it is much cheaper, as you can switch your subscription on and off.  You will still be able to buy standalone license which last for ever anyway.  Also, you can't exactly say InDesign is cheap at the moment, you do get what you pay for.

[John Waller]

Thing is I honestly don't see the subscription model having much uptake.

Switching the subscription on and off is all well and good but it takes so long to learn the software that surely only up-to-date experts can benefit from subscriptions.

Most people (me included) still seem to prefer perpetual licenses.

In my view, Adobe is being grossly unfair and unethical in now dropping the reasonable 3 versions back policy and insisting only current version users enjoy upgrade pricing.

Piracy will surely increase if this ill-conceived new policy is implemented.

[Peter Spier]

I'll admit to being a little confused by the blog post (and I'm hoping more information will be coming out as people start to discuss this), but it looks to me like the subscriptions are probably pretty close in price or perhaps better (at least for US users, much better for those in higher priced markets) to buying a single standalone licence for InDesign, or an upgrade for the Design Premium package as boxed products and they are perputually updated so you are always using the latest version (not necessarily a good thing if a patch changes some critical behavior mid project), AND most important you have access to the ENTIRE range of Adobe products and services, so you 'd be able to use ID, Photoshop and Illustrator all the time, and still be able to use Lightroom, which doesn't come bundled with anything, or the video production applications, without buying additional licenses or more expensive bundles for occasional use.

And It also looks to me like the current boxed product licensing model will continue for those that want it, though you will no longer be able to skip generations to quailify for upgrade discounts. It wouldn't surprise me, though, if those upgraded and boxed prodcut licenses got more expensive as a way to push users to the cloud.

Things I didn't see explained are if you could, as has been suggested above, buy a month's access at a time as you need it, or whether old versions will be available when the next generations are released. I don't expect to see anything earlier than CS6 on this program, but I wonder if any thought has been given to what happens when CS7 is released? Will cloud users all be forced to update legacy documents to work with them? Will they lose the ability to collaborate with box-product users one or two steps behind them because they have no way to maintain multiple versions as many of us do now? What about service providers? Suppose a printer see this as a way to save money and have access to the newest version so he can support the cutting edge. Will he lose the ability to take a packaged ID file from anyone else? That would be a big push toward the PDF workflow for sure.

[David W. Goodrich]

First, "New Choices" implies more but as I understand it Adobe seeks to restrict customer's choices.

More significantly, as discussed in this forum this week (on wrong page numbers), IDCS5 and IDCS5.5 introduced a serious and still un-resolved bug in the handling of "booked" documents associated with converting files from older ID versions.  I simply don't trust IDCS5.5 for production jobs: I use IDCS4, meaning, in Adobe's recent practice, two versions behind.

I can't imagine these "New Choices" originating with the folks who work with the the software day in and day out, and live with the indiosyncracies of versions and converting between them.

David

[penderra]

Well, I have had Photoshop v7, upgraded to CS2 and then to CS4. I would probably have upgraded to CS6. But this is just a mess - I am unwilling to update every version - it's too expensive, especially when you factor in the UK premium which they add to prices.

There is no way that I am going to shell out $600 (plus UK penalty) every single year.

I guess that Adobe don't want personal users anymore - which is just as well, since they have just lost one!

[whatalotofrubbish]

Seconded!

[Stix_Hart]

Just interested, what is everyone going to use instead of InDesign? 

[Peter Spier]

Al,

Blank message, as sometimes happens with email reponses and certain email programs....

[Peter Spier]

Still blank. Come back to the web page to post.

[AlReeev]

On Nov 12, 2011, at 1:01 PM, Stix Hart wrote:

Re: Adobe Creative Cloud and Adobe Creative Suite: New Choices for Customers

created by Stix Hart in InDesign - View the full discussion

Just interested, what is everyone going to use instead of InDesign?  :^0s

Good Question.

Well, we can continue to use whatever version of InDy we are using now; in my case, CS-4.

Otherwise, and for Mac users, there are, indeed, few alternatives:

1. I have been experimenting with Pages which does a nice job with almost all the various newsletter type of publications though without InDesign's more sophisticated typographic capabilities. Also note that the version of Pages available through the App Shop does not now have the page layout bits & pieces;

2. MS Word also has page layout capabilities. However, in typical MS fashion, so much supposedly helpful garbage has been added that actually using the program gets to be infuriating. However, once you figure it all out, it seems to work reasonably well;

3. An acquaintance uses iCalamus and claims that it works "almost as well" as InDy. In my very limited exposure to it, it does about as well as Pages but with a slightly different set of capabilities.

4. TeX is an extremely effective system for producing books, papers, newsletters and such. It is a rather complex system, but even I quickly got to the point where I could get fairly decent output despite being elderly (84) and lazy;

Al Revzin

[rjbphoto1]

"Well, I have had Photoshop v7, upgraded to CS2 and then to CS4. I would probably have upgraded to CS6. But this is just a mess - I am unwilling to update every version - it's too expensive, especially when you factor in the UK premium which they add to prices.
There is no way that I am going to shell out $600 (plus UK penalty) every single year.

I guess that Adobe don't want personal users anymore - which is just as well, since they have just lost one!"

I couldn't agree more, I have had a very similar upgrade path to you and to be FORCED to upgrade every time is too expensive and the changes are too minimal to make that much diffrence.

I've been a loyal Adobe customer since the early 90's but I'll be looking for an alternative now.

[Peter Spier]

rjbphoto1 wrote:

"Well, I have had Photoshop v7, upgraded to CS2 and then to CS4. I would probably have upgraded to CS6. But this is just a mess - I am unwilling to update every version - it's too expensive, especially when you factor in the UK premium which they add to prices.
There is no way that I am going to shell out $600 (plus UK penalty) every single year.

I guess that Adobe don't want personal users anymore - which is just as well, since they have just lost one!"

I couldn't agree more, I have had a very similar upgrade path to you and to be FORCED to upgrade every time is too expensive and the changes are too minimal to make that much diffrence.

I've been a loyal Adobe customer since the early 90's but I'll be looking for an alternative now.

I think you are misunderstanding the concept here. You will not be forced to upgrade UNLESS you want to continue to have a present style perpetual license, and then only if you want to upgrade to CS6 at a discount price. All that the policy says is that there will no longer be a discount upgrade for perpetual licenses from anything earlier than CS5 for CS6. You can still upgrade from CS3 or CS4 if you like, but you'll pay the same price as if you were making your first purchase of Adobe software. Users who choose to subscribe to clooud services will not pay extra to upgrade when new versions are released, as far as I can tell. this means that for a steady expenditure you should always have access to the latest version (I'm not sure how this affects needing to complete a project in an earlier version, but presumably you will be able to install any upgrades on your own schedule).

I would not be surprised if education discounts disappear altogether, though.

[penderra]

I think you have the misunderstanding. A move from CS4 to CS6 under the new structure is NOT an upgrade. It is a new buy.

Irrespective of what you actually call it, I, as a personal user, am losing out. Under the wonderful new scheme

• I will have to shell out 4 times as much to keep my current upgrade path (missing out every second version).
• If I upgrade every version it will cost me twice as much compared to present.
• If I use the new cloud version it will cost me a LOT more every single year - In fact it looks like I will have to effectively pay the same amount EVERY year as it would cost to buy a new version!

Doesn't seem like a good deal to me, but then I am just a personal user.............

[Peter Spier]

RA Pender wrote:

I think you have the misunderstanding. A move from CS4 to CS6 under the new structure is NOT an upgrade. It is a new buy.

That's exactly what I said. If you want to buy a CS6 license AT A DISCOUNT you will only be able to do that from CS5 or CS5.5.  You can buy CS6 at full price otherwise. Users of previous versions can purchase upgrades to CS5.5 now, if they choose to do so, and have the use of the current version until CS6 is released at some time next year (if current schdule patterns remain). The adobe store is apparently offering an additional 20% discount on these upgrades until Dec. 31.

In any case, nobody is REQUIRING you to buy any upgrade or new product. Yes, there is a policy change that will make it more expensive for users who have previously skipped versions, but that's not the same thing at all, and this is not the first time that discount upgrade policies have changed. As users we don't have to like it, but Adobe is perfectly within its rights to set any policy that they feel serves the stockholders.

I'm also just a single user, like you. I've always budgeted for a next version upgrade in the past, but I'm not sure I would have done so with the new higher prices introduced this year, even before the new plan. That said, in order to survive Adobe needs a revenue stream, and those of us who don't upgrade or make a new purchaase of the new edition don't contribute to that revenue stream. Are you in business? Do you make decisions based on what some client you haven't heard from in three years is going to want, maybe? I know I don't.

Bottom line, to me, is if you think you are going to want CS6, and we have no way of telling what new features or improvements there will be, I think you would do better to upgrade to CS5.5 now and to CS6 again when released than to pay full price for CS6 (which will probably also go up in price). Besides saving money, you get all the new features of CS5.5 and the improved productivity (which payed for the upgrade for me).

[W__Bravenboer]

I have a terrible feeling that non-US customers will be *** again... The current financial climate makes it almost impossible to invest a lot of money (for us this is around 3000 euros) for software. And as some of our workstations are non-intel, this means even more... Although subscriptions could be useful, for us it is not interesting. My only hope is that Adobe will have some decency left and takes into account its non-US users. We will never buy localized software again (much too expensive), but we still pay more for the English downloadable software...

[rjbphoto1]

Yes, why is the downloadable software more expensive in the UK and why is it more expensive than shipping the box?

[Eugene Tyson]

I don't understand this at all.

I have CS5 InDesign in work. So I will be able to upgrade that to CS6 when it comes out at the discount price?

I'm still using CS2 Illustrator and Photoshop, for the little work I do in those programs, they're fine. But if I want to upgrade them to CS6 I have to pay the full amount of an upgrade, with no discount... or will I have to pay for CS6 in full for both of these programs?

At the moment I can upgrade CS2, photoshop and Illustrator for €240 each, to CS5. So wouldn't I just be able to do that now and then buy the CS6 upgrade at a much later date perhaps just before CS7 comes out?

The only thing I really need to keep up to date is InDesign. As long as I can upgrade that at the discount price I'm happy.

If CS6 has the tools to basically go "File>Export>Epub" and I get a fully working epub file without having to trash about in code afterwards or make complex tagging in InDesign, then I'll be buying it.

Until such a time that making an Epub is as simple as making a PDF... I probably won't upgrade until then.

+ I want footnotes completely revamped... until then. I will probably be using CS5 for the foreseeable future.

[John Hawkinson]

Eugene:

  Based on the current information we have (from the blog post), which may not be correct and which you should not rely upon:

There is some confusion about the word "discount." As used in the blog post, in general there are no "discounts" for upgrades, there is the upgrade price and there is full price. But, also in the blog post, there is a special "discount upgrade" if you choose to upgrade to CS5.5 today (prior to Dec. 31, 2011), which is 20% off the regular upgrade. However, Peter used the word "discount" to distinguish between upgrade pricing and full price. It's probably a good idea to avoid using that word there because of the potential for confusion.

I have CS5 InDesign in work. So I will be able to upgrade that to CS6 when it comes out at the discount price?

You will be able to upgrade to CS6 at upgrade pricing. Not the 20% discount, but it is "discounted" from the full price of CS6.

I'm still using CS2 Illustrator and Photoshop, for the little work I do in those programs, they're fine. But if I want to upgrade them to CS6 I have to pay the full amount of an upgrade, with no discount... or will I have to pay for CS6 in full for both of these programs?

You will have to pay the full price (not the "full amount of an upgrade," whatever that means).

If you elect to upgrade to CS5.5 prior to Dec. 31 of this year, however, then then you can pay the discounted upgrade price to upgrade to CS5.5 (well, CS5 since Photoshop CS5.5 doesn't exist), and then you can pay the CS6 upgrade price in March/April. So you can pay for no upgrades (full price) or two upgrades (one of which is 20% off).

At the moment I can upgrade CS2, photoshop and Illustrator for €240 each, to CS5. So wouldn't I just be able to do that now and then buy the CS6 upgrade at a much later date perhaps just before CS7 comes out?

Yes, you can do that.

If CS6 has the tools to basically go "File>Export>Epub" and I get a fully working epub file without having to trash about in code afterwards or make complex tagging in InDesign, then I'll be buying it.

It looks like EPUB is evolving pretty fast, so even if ID CS6 fully supports what you want out of EPUB on Day 1, I bet you'll need to be prepared to postprocess it on Day 2. Or at least long before Day 200.

[Eugene Tyson]

I really don't understand why anyone would want a subscription then? Buy the full software and have it on  your computer to use whenever you want. Usual release of upgrades is 18 months.

So you can upgrade 2 versions every 36 months for €240.

Why would anyone pay a susbscription? Seems the most ridiculous thing ever.

[John Hawkinson]

Eugene, I think there are two reasons a subscription may make sense.

1) If you are truly an occasional user who uses Creative Suite products 3 months out of 12.

2) According to the blog post in the first link, Adobe Creative Cloud gives you Master Colllection for $50/month, aka $600/year. (It used to cost $129/month => $1548/year in subscription). Master Collection lists for $2599 (Amazon discounts to $2,473). So you get 4 years of subscription for the price of the non-subscription product. If you normally paid to upgrade every year, you would regularly pay $549 to upgrade Master Collection. So the subscription is $51 more expensive than buying the yearly upgrade, but since the first year of Master Collection is $1873 cheaper via subscription, you would be ahead for the next 36 years.

All prices USD, the calculus may be different in Euros, I don't have those numbers handy to play with. But I think the takeway is that Master Collection subscriptions just got a lot cheaper (60% off!).