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Apple M1 Support - Taking Far Too Long!

Explorer ,
Feb 25, 2021 Feb 25, 2021

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Apple released the developer transition kit on the 29th of June last year and yet InDesign is basically unusable on M1 macs. That's 8 months ago! So Adobe has had 8 months to develop M1 versions of the software and the M1 macs themselves have been out for 3 months - hardly "Bleeding Edge" as an Adobe representative has said in another thread about the same issue which is now locked leading me to write this! Do you honestly think that this is good enough for your customers!? The very least you could do is to give us an exact schedule of when you will have fully functional M1 versions and a warning on product pages saying that certain applications don't work on M1. Why should I pay my subscription for substandard software and support? I've used Adobe products for 20 years and I feel you're taking your users patience for granted. I'm now a sotware engineer myself and 8 months to update and recompile is unheard of especially for such a large company as Adobe. You must have a real contempt for your end users if you think you can blame them for using modern equipment which has been out for the best part of a year and you haven't bothered to release working updates.

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Bug, Feature request, Performance

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correct answers 2 Correct answers

Adobe Community Professional , Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021
I understand the frustration, but if you read the system requirements, it's for Intel processors. It's Apple that promised that rosetta 2 would work.

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Adobe Employee , Apr 02, 2021 Apr 02, 2021
Hi all, Sorry about the inconvenience caused. The first Beta release of InDesign for Apple silicon M1 is now available to download. Please try installing by following the instructions on this page and share your observations with us. Regards, Ashutosh

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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I understand the frustration, but if you read the system requirements, it's for Intel processors. It's Apple that promised that rosetta 2 would work.

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Rosetta 2 is a transitional strategy not for companies like Adobe to use as an excuse not to update their software in a timely manner. They had 5 months to build and test M1 versions of their applications before it was made available to the public - there's simply no excuse for it other than laziness and contempt for end users. They should be thankful for the improved architecture and take advantage of the performance M1 offers instead of moaning about it!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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@Tom5E06 wrote:

"Do you honestly think that this is good enough for your customers!? The very least you could do is to give us an exact schedule of when you will have fully functional M1 versions..."


 

Hi

We are users just like you and Adobe has not given us a schedule. When I had to buy a new laptop last month, I did not buy an M1 because I knew of the issues from reading the posts here in the forums. 

~ Jane

 

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Don't you find that absurd that you're effectively making a bad hardware buying decision because a massive software company couldn't get their act together in time? I write software for a living but also use Adobe for some design work and used to be a designer, thankfully I don't have to use InDesign on a daily basis anymore but it's still irksome to see Adobe representatives in these forums blaming Apple and their users for expecting working M1 versions after 8 months since they have had the opportunity to develop M1 native versions! Should have been ready for the official release in November - there's no excuse, especially not that supposedly performance intensive software would be just fine running on an emulation layer!

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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I have plenty of beefs with Adobe. UI Scaling on Windows is number one and I've been yelling about it for years. Still not fixed. I'm only telling you this to show you I am not a shill or an apologist.

That out of the way, this is not, IMO, on Adobe. Apple pushed out a completely new platform and promised it would run Intel software. It doesn't work.

I understand your frustration all to well, but you're barking up the wrong tree on this one.

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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It's not on Apple or any computer manufacturer to make sure third party software runs on their platform, the responsibility resides with the software vendor. As I said before Rosetta was a transition strategy and not meant to be a long term solution and especially not meant to be optimal when performance is concerned - which is very much the case with graphically intensive software such as Adobe applications. I know this was the case because I watched WWDC and I'm a registered Apple developer and have read the docs. I have no stock in Apple per se other than it's a decent Unix based platform to write software on and used by the vast majority of developers as their workstation. It's really not at all hard to make the changes for software to run natively on M1 silicon, I for the life of me can't understand why Adobe is dragging it's feet on this since all macs going forward will have Apple chips seems like a terrible business decision not to go all in and have two seperate codebases to keep legacy support for older Intel macs but focus on Apple silicon. No modern software company should take so long to release updates in the current climate of continuous delivery of agile software - betas of all applications should have been in the hands of testers long BEFORE the November release - there's just no excuse any more for tardy software updates.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Again...I completely understand your frustration, but if you expect Adobe to turn on a dime you clearly haven't been paying attention. You can keep on focusing your anger at Adobe or you can read the system requirements which clearly state Intel processors.

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Or I can go to their competitors eg. Affinity who have M1 optimised versions of everything despite being a much smaller company. Have to say I've used Adobe for over 20 years and never before felt the need to shop around but the animosity I've received on here just for stating the obvious need for Adobe to get their act together shows maybe my loyalty has been misplaced.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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If you're looking for a debate on any of that you won't get it from me. Competition is a wonderful thing and the one thing I've always disputed was "Adobe is a monopoly." It's not.

Affinity, from what I understand has some excellent software especially if you don't have to collaborate with anyone. But one of the reasons they can turn on a dime is because they are a much smaller company, not the other way around.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Keeping in mind that this particular forum is a user-to-user help group, this might not be the best place to make your views known to the Adobe powers-that-be.

 

Try the www.InDesign.UserVoice.com feedback forum, where comments go directly to Adobe's marketing department...which definitely is the team that makes programming decisions. Plus, it's the place where the engineering teams can comment back to customers.

 

I agree with parts of your comments: yes, it's been too long for InDesign to retool for the new M1 chip. I don't mind a couple of months' delay, but...

 

I've been in a tough place trying to guide my clients and students on new Mac purchases, especially when their older system died and needed to be replaced immediately. Right now, that client is using a Mac loaner from my firm to give them a usable Intel system for their production needs. But how many people have that luxury?

 

And yes, Affinity has a very nice suite of basic tools...very capable for many creative workflows.

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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Community Beginner ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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I find your post interesting because when I called about the sluggish performance of the CC design products, they told my my 3yo iMAC needed to be upgraded to the new models with the M1 chip. Since 80% of my work is in InDesign, I really appreciate your post.

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Participant ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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I followed the discussion and would like to add some comments. Over the last 2 years Adobe programs got more and more complicated – at the same time less user friendly. The more complicated things get, the more effort is needed to perform system changes. That’s physics – or in politics, the more bureaucracy, excessive time is needed for changes.

As a simple user – I work with Adobe since 1995 – I realize that with updates after 2018 I have to move the mouse many more times across the screen, more clicks. And certain helpful control features – sometimes redundant, but comfortable – on top of the screen are suddenly missing. Now we find empty bars and empty panels (wasted screen space) on top of the screen (e.g. Adobe Camera Raw) and you need to open more windows separately. Comfortable actions we got used to over the years, now require more clicking. There are also features I hardly see any use for: Photoshop produces «Filters», so anyone can recognize typically manipulated images. After having seen hundreds of them, I would classify them as mannered - or as sexy as Word Art.

I spend a considerable time with Adobe trying to learn new features. That is O.K., however, doing so I encountered many «keywords» which are not translated in my German version of the Creative Cloud. In addition there are still obsolete references from older versions in the internet support. Or under «Hilfe» (Help), obvious keywords cannot be found. What I also find disturbing is that standard handling of presets changed in the last few years with no obvious advantage. A few technical flaws I reported to Adobe.

I read the many Adobe Community mails daily, mostly about InDesign. It is surprising what kind of problems are reported by «normal» users in these days. Are the programs more error prone than earlier or the users less educated? In many cases I do not even understand the problem. On the other hand, I learned from certain discussions – that regardless of working with InDesign since its creation – there are a few handy functions I never realized before; e.g., Data Merge or Serienbriefe, a function that Apple iWork dumped a few years ago with its new Pages and Microsoft Office made the handling of «Sendungen(now!)» more complex than years ago…

It may not always be Adobe’s shortcoming when its programs do not work. Apple systems or updates may cause at least part of the problems. It is a fact that heavy users observe an excessive increase of library space and objects with time. It happened more than twice over the last 5 years that my Time Machine backups did not stop anymore, or external volumes are randomly thrown out without obvious reason.

In such cases one is recommended to perform a «clean install» regularly, i.e. wipe the system disk and install the system over the internet. A few preparations are needed to get the computer working again as before (for archive data or presets you have to find data in the libraries backups etc.). That reduces by factors library space and number of objects. And – I knock on wood – I never had any of the strange blackouts reported by many users.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Once retooled for M1, InDesign might perform faster. But until I get my hands on either a beta or final release and test it, I don't know. And neither does anyone else.

From what I see, the slowdowns are caused by any of several factors:

  • Bloated code.
  • More tools than the user needs.
  • Constant connections to the internet for synching files, cloud libraries, Adobe fonts, etc.
  • The users's particular internet/broadband set up.

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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How is it Adobe's issue to fix this? Apple decided to move away from the x86 architecture, and they have Rosetta 2 for emulating the software - it's completely up to Apple to make sure that the emulation works properly.

 

It's like if I invented a new computer and said "Now everyone who has ever made software has to make it work on my new computer software!"

 

C'mon - Apple new what they were doing.

 

The software is not designed to run on M1 chips - so you shouldn't have bought a computer with the wrong technology to do your work.

 

It's like buying a hammer when you needed a screwdriver. Who's fault is that?

 

It will take as long as it takes, Adobe have no obligation to make it work on M1 chips. And as far as I am concerned it's completely up to Apple to make it work - not the other way around.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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@Eugene Tyson 

It will take as long as it takes, Adobe have no obligation to make it work on M1 chips....

By @Eugene Tyson

 

So wait...

Following that logic, we should never upgrade our hardware because Adobe doesn't have to retool its software to work on the new architecture?

 

If that was the case, we'd be trying to run InDesign on the original 1984 Macintosh with a Motorola 68xxx chip!

 

All software companies have the respondibility of keeping up with the hardware and OS changes, not just Adobe. And Apple has its responsibilities, as well:

  • Give developers the inside hooks well enough in advance of the release date. It appears that 8 months has transpired since the new M1 architecture was available. However, it's only 3+ months since the new architecture was formally available to the public.
  • Create a usable emulator to run previous software editions on the new architecture. Rosetta doesn't appear to work well enough, especially with complex programs like InDesign.

 

Right now, both companies seem to have shot themselves in the foot. A great number of customers are not buying the new machines and instead are either buying older Intel models or holding off buying at all. (This is based on our clients' feedback.)

 

And Adobe's customers are PO'd about a program that can't operate at all on the new machines, which puts their livelihood in jeopardy.

 

Both companies need to stop their pi$$ing contest and start thinking about their customers ... and get moving on this problem. It's not the first time we all have been down this road. Everyone knew what the deal was.

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Couldn't agree more. They originally were quite symbiotic to each others success - it seems so frivolous to hold a grudge. That said in the end though Adobe is going to have to make it work, eventually Intel macs will be phased out - does it make sense for it to ignore the whole market of creative professionals that use macs? Or will it wait until that moment Apple stops selling them and in the mean time penalise customers who want to actually use a modern mac? Massive missed oportunity imho.

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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You obviously don't understand how software businesses work or at least SHOULD work. Without Apple Adobe wouldn't exist not the other way around. It started out as mac only and all businesses who wanted to use Adobe applications needed to use  macs. Even though that's the history it's not why I'm saying what I'm saying - software is written for specific hardware architectures, which are by their nature changing all the time so it's ALWAYS the software companies responsibility to keep up with the popular hardware options but it seems companies like Adobe and also Autodesk are still stuck in the old paradigm where updates were few and far between. It's just total arrogance because they think people will be loyal no matter what or that they are "industry standard" so people will use their products regardless. M1 macs are not some "niche" product that hardly anyone is using it's the new standard! I buy a computer for more important things than it's support for Adobe products! I'm a software engineer not a creative as such but I've used Adobe for 20 years as I was a graphic designer and still use it occasionally - was using InDesign and found it crashes constantly to the point of being unusable hence coming for support here to find rudeness of Adobe employees and nonchelance of Adobe fanboys. Why hasn't Adobe chimed in on my post to explain why they have taken so ridiculously long to update their products for a modern architecture?

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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That was directed @Eugene Tyson 

 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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Why hasn't Adobe chimed in on my post to explain why they have taken so ridiculously long to update their products for a modern architecture?

 

If you look around, you'll see you're not the only one unhappy about the performance of InDesign on M1 Macs. There have several posts commented on by Adobe employees.

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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I know that's exactly why I started this thread - have you not been reading what I've been saying? I came here looking for some kind of workaround and a solid date when they would be releasing updated software and was greeted by some Apple employees and Adobe fanboys actually blaming people for buying computers that have been out for 8 months and are the dominant future architecture on the mac platform. I want answers from Adobe why they have failed so miserably on this.

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Explorer ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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*Adobe* employees

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 28, 2021 Feb 28, 2021

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*Adobe* employees

By @Tom5E06

 

Just to be clear, I don't see any posts from Adobe employees in this thread. If so, their names would carry the Adobe logo like this sample:

Adobe-Employee.png.

 

The contributors here are either other users, or Adobe Community Professionals (ACPs), who are invited experts asked to check in with advice from time to time. We are unpaid volunteers, not employees.

 

This forum is a user-to-user help forum that is "lightly" monitored by Adobe staff.

 

Bevi Chagnon | Designer & Technologist for Accessible InDesign + PDFs |
Books & Classes | PubCom

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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I get it. Have you been reading what I've been saying? As I mentioned earlier, I've been screaming about Windows UI scaling for years (not an exaggeration) and have gotten nowhere. The M1 posts have gotten far more attention.

It'll get done but if you're expecting a solid date you're going to be sorely disappointed.

I'm bowing out because frankly, it appears you're looking for more than anyone here is going to be able to provide.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Feb 26, 2021 Feb 26, 2021

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It's up to Apple to provide support to get it working. They really shot themselves in the foot. They knew a large percentage  of macs are used in design and printing houses all over the world. They took that away from them for no reason.

 

Now they and customers expect that it is Adobe's fault? Adobe are playing catch up now.

You have to wait for Adobe to catch up. 

 

If you want dates or escalation the forums are not the place. Look up the indesign uservoice.

 

That gets more attention.

 

It's a new computer with new architecture that emulates how Adobe has the structure working.

 

Screaming for Adobe to get their act together is Madness.

 

Hopefully, Adobe will have a solution soon. I am sure they are as annoyed as you that their software doesn't work on what must be a large percentage of design studios and printing houses globally.

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