Has Indesign become unusable?

[Doc Maik]

Coming from the 2022 version 17.x, I today installed the latest 19.3 just to see this:

Just started, no document open, keeps going like this for hours.

[Eugene Tyson]

No, I use it everyday - completely usable.

What's your system specs please? What OS? What RAM? What processor? 

Try resetting your preferences:

Windows: Start InDesign, and then press Shift+Ctrl+Alt. Click Yes when asked if you want to delete preference files.
macOS: While pressing Shift+Option+Command+Control, start InDesign. Click Yes when asked if you want to delete preference files.
A dialog will appear asking to delete the InDesign Preferences, select 'Yes' on this dialog.
Further info and instructions here if needed:
https://helpx.adobe.com/in/indesign/kb/indesign-preferences-support-file-locations.html

Even an update to a new version can still reference some old things - resetting your prefences might help.

And if not working

Reinstalling rarely fixes everything - you can do a complete reinstall using the
Creative Cloud Cleaner Tool https://helpx.adobe.com/creative-cloud/kb/cc-cleaner-tool-installation-problems.html

[Doc Maik]

Thanks, Eugene, but this is a technical problem. I suppose the system requirements have once more been raised, but you don't see why.

The 17.x, when started, also uses a lot of RAM, thought approx. 1 GB isn't the problem when you have 16. The point is the CPU power. Permanent 30% - for what? It's not supposed to sync anything. It's not supposed to do anything in the background. I can imagine why it does that: bad programming. Since ID starts, like,  50 background tasks including the absolutely unnecessary CCX, CC and IPC, I have banned some exe files into archives, the they can't be started. The 17.x

has no problem, though it also uses approx. 6% when running idle.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Doc Maik 

After 20-30 seconds from starting:

I also have only 16GB in my DELL laptop - but SWAP is off.

1x SSD M.2, Wi-Fi and no external drives.

[Eugene Tyson]

It's important that you can supply your system specs. 

I have a Dell 10750H processor with 8gb RAM and can run InDeisgn 2024 with no issues. 

I have a Mac M3 processor 32gb RAM with InDeisgn 2024 and it randomly hangs. 

I guess I need to know the specs so we can eliminate that as an issue. 

You've put some files into non-working modes - which could be problematic.

I've no idea what to tell you - except what I've already suggested. 

[Doc Maik]

It's OK. Thanks for helping. I will try a few things, like reboot the PC or unrar the nasty exe file so ID can find them. Maybe that will help. 

[Bill Silbert]

If you are on a Mac running Sonoma make sure that it is updated to the latest version (14.4). Earlier versions of Sonoma were not compatible with InDesign. If you are on Mac Ventura make sure that is also updated to its latest (13.6.5). There were also issues with earlier versions of Ventura.

[Eugene Tyson]

The screenshot looks like it's from Windows Task Manager.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

First, the elevated CPU usage is a known, occasional and seemingly persistent bug. I know it's been addressed in the forum, with comments by Adobe reps that the development team is aware of it and working on a fix. That it keeps recurring is... probably due to a combination of old code, newer OSes and (since it is not a common problem) some combination of platform, OS and version.

But while recognizing that it's not 'nothing' or completely ignorable... how does this dashboard-gauge indicator make InDesign "unusable"? Does the elevated idle CPU usage keep the app from running properly? Or keep any other apps from running properly?

I mean, it's not as if it reduces the laptop's gas mileage. 🙂 And it's not overuse of a finite resource like RAM, where a 'leak' or expanding usage can cripple performance or crash the system. It's just... not running efficiently.

So if this is anything but an annoyance, noticed only because you're a dashboard-watcher... can you explain how and why?

[Doc Maik]

But while recognizing that it's not 'nothing' or completely ignorable... how does this dashboard-gauge indicator make InDesign "unusable"? Does the elevated idle CPU usage keep the app from running properly? Or keep any other apps from running properly?

Simple: it reduces the amount of CPU power tasks within ID get. Example: you export a PDF in the background and then continue to work and save the next document - then ID would halt the PDF export for a moment. This is already the way it was before 19.3. ID has a bad process and memory management. Like all Adobe tools, it loads everything upon start, instead of when needed. I see that everyday when working with ID. Photoshop is even worse, by the way. However, this level of CPU and RAM usage on the 19.3 is new. Never had it that bad before, so I simply assume that it won't be usable anymore or at least way worse than before. 

The system will limit ID additionally. Plus, I think that the ~30% are already system limited.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Doc Maik 

People were reporting high CPU usage for ages - it's not limited to 19.3.

As per my screenshot - I don't have this problem so something must be going on with your installation.

I'm not saying that it's your fault - but it will be rather hard to find what is the problem...

You can start by disconnnecting network -  ALL network connections - and I mean completely, even with unpluggin cable from the port.

Maybe too many fonts - I know it's crazy, because no documents are open...

Antivirus, etc. - try to disable.

Do you have any extra plugins installed?

Any extra devices connected? External drives, pendrives, etc.

[Doc Maik]

I know, but like I said, it's not in the 2022 version. I wrote, I suppose it's something with all the unnecessary crap that ID does in the background. IPC broker, CCX, Clound Sync etc. When you disable the Exe file of these, then ID 2022 has no problem. It starts, goes to ~1GB RAM and ~30% CPU for some seconds and then calms down. Not so 19.3. I could try to release the Exes again, for a test, but I chose to uninstall 19.3 and to continue working with 17.4 until Adobe has a fix for this RAM/CPU problem. 

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

I know, but like I said, it's not in the 2022 version. I wrote, I suppose it's something with all the unnecessary crap that ID does in the background. IPC broker, CCX, Clound Sync etc. When you disable the Exe file of these, then ID 2022 has no problem. It starts, goes to ~1GB RAM and ~30% CPU for some seconds and then calms down. Not so 19.3. I could try to release the Exes again, for a test, but I chose to uninstall 19.3 and to continue working with 17.4 until Adobe has a fix for this RAM/CPU problem. 

By @Doc Maik

Until ALL users are affected - I wouldn't count on quick fix...

Which EXEs exactly have you "disabled"? Because this might be a clue to what is going on...

[Eugene Tyson]

Try starting in safe mode with no network connection and see if the problem persists in InDesign.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Okay. Again, I am not saying this is nothing, or that's it's an okay situation; I am most certainly not defending or excusing Adobe for not addressing this longstanding and seemingly inexplicable problem.

But.

On the scale between "InDesign is so crippled by this background waste of resources that I can't complete my workflow and meet deadlines" and "I know the problem is there and it bugs me," your complaints seem to fall towards the latter. You haven't actually said ID isn't working for you, or is in any signfiicant way limiting your ability to work, or causing actual producion problems. You've said "I am not getting 100% theoretical efficiency from the setup, because InDesign doesn't apparently work the way I think it should." — with the implication that this knowledge alone drives you up a tree.

I have trouble equating that with "InDesign is unusuable." The equivalent UI flaws that are about as persistent and actually interfere with using the app, and flaws that corrupt and damage files, and flaws that won't let users share CC Libraries... those wander into "unusable" territory and fortunately are mostly fixable or avoidable. But "I'm only getting 0-60 in 5 seconds when I know it should be 4.2 seconds" is... something largely avoidable by not keeping the task manager open on your desktop.

Please do make a better case for "unusuable" if you have one that isn't based on what your theoretical background PDF production time should be, or the like.

[Doc Maik]

It was a question, a doubt. As I explained, I just did an update and it changed what ID did. Back in the day, I started with Adobe CS2. ID, as for what it is, hasn't changed much since then, but the way it works in the background and what it requires from the CPU and RAM has drastically changed. With every version Adobe changed something to the worse, making it more and more less convenient to use. With time you simply learn to live with it. Every new version is a small step towards "unusable". Perhaps the point is reached for me. Means, I need to stick to the older version. Well, regarding the other stuff you mentioned, the actual work with ID, I haven't had the chance to try the 19.3. Maybe there is even more that would freak me out. It's also a matter of point of view . In my POV, exactly those things like syncing unwanted files, CC libraries, sharing or whatever are those things which slow down ID and I don't need them. It's a document design tool, not an asset manager. 

In my case, the desktop PC I have is an outdated model so that high CPU usage has a bigger impact. However, I'm not forced to install updates, I know, but especially if you work with a version that has bugs, some of them you found yourself, then you hope for them to be fixed one day. You don't know when, but between 17.4 and 19.3 there were a few updates.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

This is still "I know, and it bugs me" not "ID doesn't work well for me."

I don't mean to keep beating the horse, here, dead or alive, but if you can use the newest version of ID on older hardware and have no actual limitations of its function or impact on your workflow... the what-ifs and could-bes and should-bes and benchmarks really don't matter, do they? That some accumulation of issues might someday lead to ID 24.8 being a brick is... amusing speculation, but not really something worth complaining about in realtime?

ID is an old app. The core is something like a decade old. It's imperfect in one way or another for almost every user. But for some very large percentage of users, it does everything needed, reliably, on a standardized basis, with most users not having to avoid any feature or work around it. There are fixes or workarounds for most known problems, and ways to adapt a workflow to avoid pinch points and bottlenecks.

And again, this is imperfection... but not unusability. It may be more productive in every sense to shut off all the benchmark trackers, stop comparing then-now-future, lose no sleep over theoretical background inefficiencies and just... use the tool.

(I stopped reading Car and Driver a long time ago, too... and I still drive around just as well. 🙂 )

[Doc Maik]

Perhaps it went under, but I have negative impacts on my workflow. It has increased with every version that I installed in the past 10 years. Sure, you can still use the latest version and it's not about my PC not being the latest "sh*t" and ID does most things well. That's why it was a - probably sort of philoshopical question - if it has become unusable. It was no complaint, just a consideration that Adobe has done it again.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Doc Maik 

As per my other post - with link - maybe what you see when iddling - would have no real impact on your work - as maybe those "background processes when iddling" - are turned off when you start working?

As you are on a PC - would you like to test my theory?

I can add extra Benchmark Task to my tool - and then we could compare results?

I have few ideas what it should do - but maybe others would like to pitch in?

This Benchmark Task could look like this:

1) create document - A4 Portrait, 100 pages,

2) create TFs on each page,

3) fill with Placeholder Text - or some specific text can be used,

4) create Char/Para Styles and apply them in specific pattern - not random, so everybody will have the same results,

5) do some extra stuff - add tables, format them, etc.

6) export whole document as PDF - in few different resolutions,

7) export each page/spread as JPEG,

8) place those PDFs/JPEGs back on pages or as Anchored,

9) duplicate pages / text up to 1000 pages?

10) play with layers and their visibility - then another export with different combinations of layers,

11) more operations? Resizing document to A4 Landscape? Splitting into Chapters and Book? Converting each TF into 2/3 text columns, etc.

Because I can execute prettty much ANY menu item - we could play with preview quality, switch between seprations, etc. to see what is taking too long or is most demanding - and at which point CPU / RAM / HDD/SSD is a bottleneck.

And each operation can be timed.

Photoshop and Illustrator can be included as well - to test HDD/SSD performance...

So, rasterize PDFs in Photoshop - resize/scale/apply filters/etc. - or import to Illustrator and do some fancy stuff there.

[Robert at ID-Tasker · Accepted solution]

@Doc Maik 

Have you seen this thread - this is VERY interesting reply:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/high-cpu-usage-while-idle-indesign-2021-2022-202...

Also, your % use of the CPU will depend on how many cores you have - and if your CPU is HT capable.

Can you let us know your EXACT configuration?

CPU, RAM, HDD/SSD, Network, external devices, etc.

[Doc Maik]

I haven't noticed that thread before. It completely reflects my situation. I feel the brother @Okan Nezgeli. My 19.3 installation also wouldn't calm down while idling at 30%. The 17.4 needs some seconds with higher CPU and then goes down to practically zero, as I mentioned at least a few times. So what exactly would be interesting on the reply of @etvoilaletravail ?

My PC has 4 cores. HT is hyperthreading. An i5 CPU should be capable of HT.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

I haven't noticed that thread before. It completely reflects my situation. I feel the brother @Okan Nezgeli. My 19.3 installation also wouldn't calm down while idling at 30%. The 17.4 needs some seconds with higher CPU and then goes down to practically zero, as I mentioned at least a few times. So what exactly would be interesting on the reply of @etvoilaletravail ?

My PC has 4 cores. HT is hyperthreading. An i5 CPU should be capable of HT.

By @Doc Maik

Your CPU doesn't support HT - so you only have physical cores.

You also have Virtualization disabled - but in this case it's rather not important ... or maybe would be? Maybe those other processes would finish their job(s) quicker?

2nd paragraph:

After letting ID 2024 do whatever it absolutely needs to do while burning around 15/20% of CPU for around 2 hours yesterday, it can finally stay idle with less than 0.5% of CPU (0% most of the time in fact).

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

By @Doc Maik

And can you post a screenshot with separate graphs - for each CPU?

Something like this:

[Doc Maik]

Robert, your intention to help in honour, but as they say in the other thread: older versions, in my case 17.4, don't have that problem, so it's neither the RAM, the CPU or the OS.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Robert, your intention to help in honour, but as they say in the other thread: older versions, in my case 17.4, don't have that problem, so it's neither the RAM, the CPU or the OS.

By @Doc Maik

It looks like InDesign is doing something in the background - some kind of "housekeeping" after install - so it doesn't have to be CPU/RAM related.

Can you leave it running overnight?

And from your graph it looks like ALL your cores are quite busy?

This is my laptop right now:

Can you post something similar?