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Package with fonts in InDesign CC?

New Here ,
Aug 17, 2019 Aug 17, 2019

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In previous versions of InDesign, that is until CC, the document package includes the fonts.
To my knowledge the CC-version does not include the fonts in the package if you use fonts from subscription (the cloud).
Surely that is obviously so, because these fonts are protected by the subscription.

But in short: It seems that InDesign CC is not compatible to any versions below, such as CS6, concerning the fonts.
If so - is that not a problem?

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Adobe Community Professional , Aug 17, 2019 Aug 17, 2019
Your inference is correct; InDesign packages only fonts that are actually stored on your system. It will not store cloud-based Adobe Fonts, as you've surmised correctly, because the fonts are protected by the subscription.As for the latest versions of InDesign CC not creating .indd files that are backward-compatible with CS6, the issue is more than just font packaging. Adobe Systems made a conscious decision to break with CS6, which was introduced more than 7 years ago.All is not lost, however. ...

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 17, 2019 Aug 17, 2019

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Your inference is correct; InDesign packages only fonts that are actually stored on your system. It will not store cloud-based Adobe Fonts, as you've surmised correctly, because the fonts are protected by the subscription.

As for the latest versions of InDesign CC not creating .indd files that are backward-compatible with CS6, the issue is more than just font packaging. Adobe Systems made a conscious decision to break with CS6, which was introduced more than 7 years ago.

All is not lost, however. It's cumbersome, but you can reach back to InDesign CS6, with various degrees of success, by first packaging your InDesign CC 2019 version of the file.

4.jpg

When you package the file, make sure that the Include IDML check box is selected. This will include a legacy file which can be opened as far back as InDesign CS4. Open the .idml file in CS6 and work from there. Do not save an .indd file from CS6. This will overwrite your current-version InDesign document file and can cause you unnecessary complication.

Understand that features introduced in later versions of the software won't make the trip, like use of Typekit/Adobe Fonts for example. And of course you will have to manually address version control issues, since you will be working with two separate files. But this will get you a job package folder that's useful in both the current version of InDesign CC and CS6.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Randy

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New Here ,
Aug 17, 2019 Aug 17, 2019

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Thank you, I read your answer - and image - as a confirmation to my question that you can never include the subscripted fonts in a CC-InDesign package. And that is, I'd say, a problem. Of course if everybody is connected to the cloud there is no problem. But not everybody is, on the contrary many designers/users prefer to stay out of the cloud and the dependency and prizing that comes with it.

I might add that in order to view the document correctly the CS6(and below)-user would have to have the fonts installed already - or go find/buy them.
It is not new that some fonts may be protected and for that reason cannot be included in the package. But I think that is quite rare whereas using the cloud-fonts may be or may become very common.
So some may not be aware of the possible complications later.

Of course transition is transition. It brings some problems.
And there would be no problem if everyone simply uses the cloud.

I also understand that with the cloud Adobe enables protection of the fonts as well as their own software from non legal use. The cloud is a way to solve those issues, but at the same time the prizing of the products have gone skyhigh to say the least.
However that is a different issue.
🙂

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 17, 2019 Aug 17, 2019

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I can't ascribe motives to Adobe's calls regarding cloud fonts. I'm but a simple end user, much like you.

But if you'll allow me to offer a somewhat artfully-crafted response, I'll say this:

It's important that you never use fonts in your design jobs that you don't own. When I do jobs for clients who want me to use fonts they own, I'll do so only for their jobs. Not my own, because I don't own them. And when it comes to using Adobe Fonts/Typekit fonts that I don't own, I don't use them. Because I don't own them.

I strongly believe that's the safest course of action.

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Aug 17, 2019 Aug 17, 2019

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Actually, to be more precise, there are very few if any fonts that the vast majority of us own! What we own are licenses to use the fonts under conditions enumerated in the fonts' End User License Agreement. This is true whether you are using fonts for which a physical file is in your possession and installed on your system or whether the font files are downloaded from the internet temporarily and stored in hidden directories such as those fonts available from Adobe Fonts.

I will not personally argue the pros and cons of fonts that you directly license and have physical custody of (i.e., the font files installed on your system) or services such as Adobe Fonts and similar services from others such as Monotype.

If you are more comfortable doing a host-resident licensing of fonts, that's fine. That option is available and is not going away (all the fonts available either in Adobe Fonts or the Monotype service are available for such host-resident licensing.

What you should seriously consider is that the font licensing available via Adobe Fonts et.al. allows you to try out a vast array of fonts prior to committing to a design after which, if you feel more comfortable with a host-resident license, you will at least know that the font(s) meet your needs.

          - Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 17, 2019 Aug 17, 2019

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OK Dov, if you prefer the legal construct of perpetual license I won't challenge you.

How about changing my statement to "the fonts I have, rather than the fonts I'm lent"? I look at it as using my fonts, rather than cloud fonts or client fonts.

And I don't presume to think Adobe Systems will read my previous comment and say "You know what? Randy's got a point and we should get out of the cloud fonts business." Any more than I would say that nobody should ever consider using cloud fonts for their work.

But I prefer not to, which is relatively easy since I obtained a perpetual license for the entire Adobe OpenType library as it existed roughly 10 years ago. It supplanted the dozens of Type 1 typefaces I had acquired for the Windows and/or Mac platforms before that. I find that running on my fonts makes my life easier.

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Aug 17, 2019 Aug 17, 2019

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I certainly respect your preferences and in many instances would personally endorse them.

               - Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 20, 2021 Jan 20, 2021

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I purchased fonts that were on typekit and installed them locally and the fonts will package on my machine but not my coworkers. 

Why wouldn't purchase fonts package to the final folder?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 20, 2021 Jan 20, 2021

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This is a bit complex to answer, so please give me a little leeway as I try.

 

If you used cloud fonts with Typekit, you didn't so much purchase them as license them. Typekit was available on a subscription basis, and became what's known today as Adobe Fonts. Which is still available only on a subscription basis as part of Creative Cloud and other Adobe subscriptions. So I'm curious how you came to purchase those fonts.

 

But even though you are using "cloud fonts" there are marker files stored on your computer. Those files essentially "phone home" and activate your licensed "cloud fonts" through Typekit/Adobe Fonts. As I understand it, they're not ever supposed to be packaged when you create and wrap up that InDesign package folder. Only resident fonts on your system get packaged in the Fonts sub-folder with your job. Check your Fonts sub-folder with a packaged job using cloud fonts and you should see they won't be in there. Which is why your co-workers aren't able to use them.

 

Your co-workers, will only be able to see/use/print those "cloud fonts" if they subscribe to Adobe Fonts and also activate those fonts on their systems. They'll need to get those same marker files on their systems to activate the same font. Or it isn't going to work.

 

What font(s) are you using that your co-workers aren't able to use? Knowing that will help us narrow down your issues and let us help you past them.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Randy

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 20, 2021 Jan 20, 2021

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Hello Randy. Thank for your reply.

We are using the font Objektiv, which originally was used from typekit.

As to not always have to rely on the cloud for font activation at work, we
purchased Objectiv from Daltonmaag.com because it is a brand font for one
of our clients.

We create templates for an overseas client and they distribute our
templates to their printers... so naturally having the font file along with
the package makes sense to avoid any printing issues.

The fonts are installed on my machine and a coworkers machine using the
'install font for all users' and I have verified that the typekit version
is de-activated so that indesign is loading my local font.

Strange thing is my computer packages the document fonts without issues,
but my designer cannot do the same and shows the font as being restricted
for copying.

What could be causing this discrepancy? My instincts tell me it may be a
windows 10 permissions issue, but I believe we both have admin permissions
to access and install fonts.

I guess I am wondering if there is anywhere in the indesign software that
can be tweaked so that this font is not seen as restricted for copying?

(in the file handling preference we both have checked on the 'Auto Activate
Adobe Fonts' and being that my computer still packages these files, should
negate the possibility that indesign is favoring the online variant over
the installed system one.)

It's a head scratcher for me and can't find any relative material online
about this.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Jan 20, 2021 Jan 20, 2021

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OK. This is making a bit more sense now.

 

I'm not trying to be an apologist for Adobe here, but as I understand it you're not using an Adobe Typekit/Adobe Fonts cut now. I'm interpreting from your reply that we're talking about a third-party font directly from the type house. So if you'll allow me, let's set Typekit/Adobe Fonts aside here. We're talking about how your third-party font from Dalton Maag interacts with InDesign and your organizational workflow.

 

I took a quick pass through both Adobe Fonts to see what Objectiv is, and the Dalton Maag website you mentioned. It appears that your type house offers a different licensing model than Adobe. So it could be that perhaps your other designer's system has turned on the Adobe Fonts version of Objectiv — maybe opening an old file using the cloud font, which would automatically auto-activate the Typekit cut — which commonly happens. I'd first double-check that your other designer's Adobe Fonts are absolutely, positively turned off. This is the most likely root of your problem; the cloud version attributes are creeping back into your system.

 

But nearly as possible is that there might be type house restrictions for packaging the font. There are ways for type houses to flag a font as non-package-able and prohibits InDesign from packaging it for you. The font seems to be licensed by the individual user or for the "number of users specified." They may have digital tools in the coding to enforce that.

 

You'll have to ask your type house for sure, but the way I read that is that you can package the fonts if you're the person with the license. But if your designer doesn't have a license, that's not allowed. And there could be coding in how that font is flagged with InDesign that would prohibit it. Your type house can give you the particulars if that's the case. You may have to fix the problem with kicking Dalton Maag another £17 for an additional license.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Randy

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 02, 2021 Mar 02, 2021

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Thank you, everything you say makes sense, however I figured out how to fix my problem.

 

I couldn not get computer #2 to let go of the cloud font activation. No matter what I did, even turn the adobe fonts OFF in the cloud app, indesign was still showing the fonts loaded were cloud based.  So I decided to try something unorthodox.  I converted the fonts from truetype to opentype and reinstalled them on all the systems and Windows now prioritizes the installed version before loading the typekit version, whereas it previously prioritized the typekit version beore looking to activate the truetype version.

 

I don't know if this is a thing, but I am happy that the fonts finally packaged on both machines.  Project is finished and no longer use the font anymore, but interesting to learn that there may be differences in the way fonts are prioritized based off their formats.

Cheers. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 03, 2021 Mar 03, 2021

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Sean5C34 said:

"…I converted the fonts from truetype to opentype and reinstalled them on all the systems and Windows now prioritizes the installed version before loading the typekit version, whereas it previously prioritized the typekit version beore looking to activate the truetype version."

 

Hi Sean,

thank you for this.

I have to say I'm very much puzzled.

 

So could you perhaps confirm the following:

[1] You were using a bought font, a TrueType one with suffix *.ttf in your layouts installed with your machine.

[2] You packaged the document to a folder that contained a Document fonts folder with that TrueType font file.

[3] That packaged folder was handed over to a colleague on a different machine where the Adobe Font with the same name was installed through the Adobe Fonts Service.

[4] InDesign on that different machine used the font with the same name loaded from Adobe Fonts Service instead of the TrueType font file in that Document fonts folder.

 

I'm not sure at all with items [3] and [4]. Please correct me where I'm wrong.

And I'm not sure if your colleague perhaps activated the font from Adobe Fonts because it showed up as missing:

 

[A] Because a newer version of InDesign was used and InDesign could not detect the missing font in the Document fonts folder until the document was saved from status [Converted].

[B] Because the document was opened with a lower version of InDesign and Adobe's cloud conversion service converted the document using IDML in the background to the lower version of InDesign. At the moment where the converted document was presented in the lower version of InDesign, the Document fonts folder could not be read (that's a general issue with IDML files).

[C] Because your colleague moved the InDesign document out of the package folder and opened the document so that InDesign did not look into the Document fonts folder that had the missing font file.

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 03, 2021 Mar 03, 2021

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LATEST
Good morning. I can confirm the following, and yes it has been a headache
and i can't pinpoint exactly what the problem was...

1. Font was originally used from typekit.
2. Client approved font so font was purchased and installed on original
machine #1 as well as my machine. #2
3. Machine #1 packaged an approved file from a server to the server.
(Document fonts folder did not contain font.)
4. I deactivated typekit on machine #1 with the creative cloud app as well
as indesign preferences 'automatically loading font'
5. Restarted Indd and PC, and font menu continued to show only TK version.
(Indesign would not release the TK fonts, even after deleting
preferences.
6. I opened same project from server on machine #2 and packaged to my
desktop, and the fonts collected just fine. (both computers had ttf
formats.)
7. Uninstalled fonts on Machine #1 and logged in under my user account and
installed fonts on an admin level. (My permissions)
8. Restarted and tested packaging again, and still had no luck. Indesign
was showing the cloud icon in the font menu, even with typekit turned off
on creative cloud app, as well as preferences menu.
9. Logged in with Machine #1 user credentials to a Machine #3. Openned indd
from server. Packaged to desktop, and fonts DID package.
10. I thought about fonts for a while, and I remembered that other fonts
we've used have been slightly problematic as ttf formats, Very rarely, but
there have been times we just couldn't get fonts to package. Therefore I
tried converting the font to OTF using www.onlinefontconverter.com

Now it might be the format, or perhaps the conversion stripped the font of
it's embedded security features? I don't know if that is the case, because
the ttf font DID package from test machine #3 prior to conversion to otf.

Finally I uninstalled the fonts again on Machine #1, and installed the
freshly converted otf set, restarted machine and launched indesign, and
finally got the dialogue window that fonts were missing and needed to be
replaced...sure enough the otf fonts were being read and we replaced them
with the installed copies. Packaged the fole and boom, font files were in
the final folder.

I'm curious if this will solve other users packaging problems, or if it is
just an isolated fluke.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 03, 2021 Mar 03, 2021

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Hi Sean,

also found this from December 2019 at InDesign UserVoice:

 

Adobe Fonts automatically substituting versions of fonts that are document-stalled
n_war_aure, Dec 17, 2019
https://indesign.uservoice.com/forums/601180-adobe-indesign-bugs/suggestions/39279127-adobe-fonts-au...

 

Regards,
Uwe Laubender

( ACP )

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