TOC - Read Aloud Accessibility

[Natesroom]

I have a proper TOC generated through InDesign using appropriate P-styles, all have their export tagging turned on assigned to <p> I have added it to the articels panel.

Acrobat and NVDA do not read the TOC. It reads the text Table of contents and then stops reading wont move to the next page. When i read the next page which is a continuation of the TOC it says Warning: Empty page. I can go into Acrobat and "TAG" each item as Text/Paragraph and then when i try to read that page it will add them, and then stop at the ones i did not add.

I added a photo of indesign and one of Acrobat with the reading order showing

[Frans v.d. Geest]

A few things to check:

is "Use Articles for PDF reading order" checked in the Articles panel checked?

Is the frame or styles used for the TOC maybe artefacted?

If you open the Tags pane in Acrobat, do you see the code <TOC> with nested <TOCi> and the the text nested in that?

And what are your PDF export settings?

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

Quote: << I have a proper TOC generated through InDesign using appropriate P-styles, all have their export tagging turned on assigned to <p> I have added it to the articels panel.>>

No!

Do not assign the <P> tag to any part of a TOC.

In all of your paragraph formatting styles for the TOC, set the export tag to Automatic because the PDF export utility must create a complex tag set in order for the <TOC>, <TOCI>, and link tags to be correct and functional.

Quote: << Acrobat and NVDA do not read the TOC. It reads the text Table of contents and then stops reading wont move to the next page.>>

Did you create the layout in InDesign 2020 (version 15.x)?

If so, there is a terrible bug in the process that is preventing all screen readers from voicing the TOC. The PDF looks like it's correctly tagged, but something in the encoding is wrong and prevents screen readers for accessing it.

Adobe has been informed of the bug but we haven't heard anything back from them about it.

If you did use 2020 to create this document, roll back to 2019 and try to re-export the PDF. Let us know the results.

Quote: <<Read Aloud Accessibility>>

Just to make sure, don't use Acrobat's built in Read Out Loud utility is not a valid screen reader and will give you false positives and false negatives. Never waste your time to test with it.

Quote: << I added a photo of indesign and one of Acrobat with the reading order showing.>>

The Acrobat screen capture photo is of the architectural/construction Order panel, which indicates only that the content was tagged, but we don't know how it was tagged.

To clarify, per the PDF/UA specification (ISO 14289), all accessibility is through the Tags panel, so everything is controlled by the tags and their reading order (the "Tag reading order") in that panel, not the order in the architectural/construction Order panel.

If you can, show us a screen capture of the Tag tree with a couple of <TOCI> tags expanded to show their <Link> tags.

[Frans v.d. Geest]

"Did you create the layout in InDesign 2020 (version 15.x)?

If so, there is a terrible bug in the process that is preventing all screen readers from voicing the TOC. The PDF looks like it's correctly tagged, but something in the encoding is wrong and prevents screen readers for accessing it."

Right! Forgot that one, even though I reported it myself elsewhere... duh!

"Do not assign the <P> tag to any part of a TOC.

In all of your paragraph formatting styles for the TOC, set the export tag to Automaticbecause the PDF export utility must create a complex tag set in order for the <TOC>, <TOCI>, and link tags to be correct and functional."

That one I missed in the OP message, but yes: create seperate styles for the TOC and use Auto tagging.

But as Bevi said, I also guess you ran into (one of the many) terrible bug(s) with tagged PDF in 2020.

you could sign up for the pre release program and install the latest pre release version of 2020, that TOC and other bugs should be fixed in that version.

[Natesroom]

Thanks Bevi, Here are some answers!

Do not assign the <P> tag to any part of a TOC.

In all of your paragraph formatting styles for the TOC, set the export tag to Automatic because the PDF export utility must create a complex tag set in order for the <TOC>, <TOCI>, and link tags to be correct and functional.

I did change it to <p> when it wasnt working, I went back to Automatic and no dice

Quote: << Acrobat and NVDA do not read the TOC. It reads the text Table of contents and then stops reading wont move to the next page.>>

Did you create the layout in InDesign 2020 (version 15.x)?

If so, there is a terrible bug in the process that is preventing all screen readers from voicing the TOC. The PDF looks like it's correctly tagged, but something in the encoding is wrong and prevents screen readers for accessing it.

I did Design it in 2020... i will go and download it 2019. I dont think i can open a 2020 file without saving as a lower file correct?

If you did use 2020 to create this document, roll back to 2019 and try to re-export the PDF. Let us know the results.

Quote: <<Read Aloud Accessibility>>

Just to make sure, don't use Acrobat's built in Read Out Loud utility is not a valid screen reader and will give you false positives and false negatives. Never waste your time to test with it.

I always test with NVDA and then Acrobat as last resort

Quote: << I added a photo of indesign and one of Acrobat with the reading order showing.>>

The Acrobat screen capture photo is of the architectural/construction Order panel, which indicates only that the content was tagged, but we don't know how it was tagged. If you can, show us a screen capture of the Tag tree with a couple of <TOCI> tags expanded to show their <Link> tags.

Here is a screenshot of the tags

[Natesroom]

Bevi i am glad to say i was able to convert it to a 2019 Document and export, and it worked perfectly.

[Bevi Chagnon - PubCom.com]

Good to know!

Glad you got it to work.