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Unable to use third party licensed fonts in InDesign

Explorer ,
Mar 18, 2023 Mar 18, 2023

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As an experienced graphic designer, and a long term user of inDesign, I am appalled at the exclusion of certain fonts. Adobe used to represent creative design, and now limits it to the fonts it thinks are more relevant. WHo made such a stupid decision? For example, Berthold fonts are among the most extensively used fonts because they invented typesetting.

If I can find an alternative design platform, I will move tomorrow.

At least allow creatives to build their own font library and don't dictate what you think are reasonable.

Gary Rowland MA RCA

 

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Performance , Print , Type

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Community Expert ,
Mar 18, 2023 Mar 18, 2023

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I'm confused.

Adobe doesn't dictate what fonts you may use, though it does provide access to a large number of fonts as part of the Creative Cloud subscription. I suspect the lack of Berthold fonts in this selection is due to an unwillingness on the part of the foundry to have them distributed this way, but there is nothing preventing you from purchasing a license directly from Berthold or another vendor with whom they do have distribution agreements.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 18, 2023 Mar 18, 2023

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Hi Gary:

 

At least allow creatives to build their own font library and don't dictate what you think are reasonable.

To be clear, you can license any fonts you like and they will work with InDesign.

 

It's unclear why Berthold didn't choose to partner with Adobe to include some of their fonts with our Adobe Creative Cloud subscriptions, but all of their fonts are for sale here: https://www.bertholdtypes.com. There are other page layout applications that you can switch to, but to the best of my knowledge, none are going to include Berthold fonts for free. You will need to purchase them, one way or another. 

 

~Barb

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LEGEND ,
Mar 18, 2023 Mar 18, 2023

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I'm rather confused too.

Adobe now offers 10 times as many fonts as it used to when Font Folio was $5000-$10000. Some foundries didn't join the subscription service though.

If you move to another platform you'll have to license those fonts instead of getting them bundled with an Adobe subscription. Nothing to stop you paying for Berthold fonts either way.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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Add me to the list. I have no idea what you're talking about unless it's the end of Type 1 support. If so, that decision makes perfect sense as any support for them will be ending everywhere and it was announced years ago.

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Explorer ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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But I am only interested in creative design not high level decisions made to compromise the quality of service I expect from Adobe.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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Again, no idea what you're talking about. Adobe doesn't control the cost of fonts from other foundries. Take it up with them.

As for Type 1 font support, if you can't get creative with the thousands of Opentype fonts included with your subscription, then I don't know what to tell you. 

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Explorer ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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I have designed a corporate design scheme for a major retail project in UK using AG condensed and now I can’t use it with inDesign. The budget does not allow $600 for the font.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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If it's a Type 1 font, again, I will remind you that you had YEARS to prepare for this. If it's that vital, I suggest installing InDesign 2022 which should still allow the use of Type 1 fonts.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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When Bob says years, he really means 23 years.

In 2000, the entire computer industry (not just Adobe) agreed to retire PostScript (aka Type 1) and old TrueType fonts because they don't have the technology to work on websites, smart phones, tablets, with accessibility software, or with most other essential modern day technologies.

 

If your original version from Berthold was purchased/licensed 40 years ago, then you purchased a PostScript / Type1 font. You might be able to contact Monotype directly (they now own the entire Berthold library) and see if they'll upgrade your old PostScript version for a new OpenType version.

 

But beware: licensing and usage rights from Monotype have drastically changed. The basic "desktop font" lets you download and install the font on your computer, use it in your programs, and print your documents to a desktop printer connected to your computer.  But as soon as you want to embed the fonts into a PDF or EPUB, that requires an additional license fee that is based on the number of weights used in the file. And it's calculated for each individual document and edition you produce. Check their website for details before you purchase.

 

You'll need to purchase an ePub license to embed fonts into PDFs. Here's a sample from the Monotype/Linotype website:

Sample of Usage Fees / Licensing.Sample of Usage Fees / Licensing.

 

Remember, these usage/licensing fees are per weight and per use (or edition or project). They are not one-time fees.

 

Bevi Chagnon | PubCom | Designer & Technologist for Accessible Documents
| Books & Classes | Accessible InDesign | Accessible PDFs | Accessible MS Office |

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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The budget does not allow $600 for the font.

 

There are other options:

 

Don’t upgrade to InDesign 18—you can have multiple versions of InDesign installed and versions 16 & 17 will allow you to use Type 1 fonts.

 

Find the EULA from when you purchased the Type 1 version of AG Condensed (the Berthold fonts have never been cheap), and see if it allows for the conversion to OpenType. Look at Font Lab’s TransType:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/ende-der-unterst%C3%BCtzung-f%C3%BCr-ps-type-1-f...

 

Find an alternative font—your Adobe Fonts subscription includes the very similar Korolev Condensed and Compressed

 

 

Screen Shot 21.png

 

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Guide ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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If it's a "major retail project" then $600 should be peanuts... 

 

ID-Tasker - most powerful tool ever created for InDesign

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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I don't know where you got that font originally, but I'm quite sure it wasn't from Adobe.

You have some alternatives, as I see  it. First, buy the font and bill the client for it as an extra. If it's a corporate identity item the cost will mean nothing to them.

Second, buy a copy of  FontLab TransType (about $100 US) and use it to convert any Type 1 fonts you've been using (If that's the problem).

Third, continue working in version 17 which still supports the use of T1 fonts. If you made the mistake of deleting old versions when you upgraded to verion 18, you can still download and reinstall version 17, and you should uncheck the option to delete old versions.

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Explorer ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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Thanks everyone for the advice.
I bought the font license for Berthold AG Condensed about 40 years ago, so god knows where the receipt is.
I have discovered that the project works fine on old versions of InDesign, so can switch between versions.

Thanks again. This will be the end of moaning!

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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"Who made such a stupid decision? For example, Berthold fonts are among the most extensively used fonts because they invented typesetting."

Irrelevant. I also see no evidence that AG Book has ever been in any of Adobe's Font folios, or included in the Berthold Exclusivs that Adobe licensed and sold ONLY for about 5 years until they pulled them in 1998/99 (Berthold went out of business in 1993 and, long story short, the successor to the Berthold library did not come to an agreement with Adobe and hence, they were dropped). According to my old Adobe Font Library catalogs I have, they DID include AG Book Rounded and Stencil, but never the main families. Regardless, Adobe's inclusion of Berthold fonts were on a non-exclusive basis (Berthold themselves sold the fonts through their own channel and other vendors). That being said, even in the short span of their availability through Adobe, the Berthold Exclusiv fonts were well over $300 per family (I remember paying something like $400 for Akzidenz Grotesk back then). Even families in Adobe's main catalog sold in the $200-$300 range for a family of 4, so $600 for a family of 8 styles this day and age is reasonable, especially since you are now getting Pro versions with extended OpenType support and glyphs.

Sure, you can use a font converter and make OTF versions of your existing ones, but you will be limited to the 256 character sets of the original and no OpenType features. Also, you're likely skirting legalities of the license.

 

So, somewhere in your company history someone should have purchased the license for your AG Book. The illegal sharing of fonts have been the bane of all the font vendors over the years, so I can sympathize the plight of Linotype/Monotype/Bauer/Berthold, etc wanting to remove their fonts from the Adobe pool and sell them through their own sites or cloud services. So, to blame Adobe is misplaced. The Type 1 discontinuation is industry-wide and any software from any company going forward will face the issue as well. Microsoft Office had already ended support a couple of years ago. Other DTP companies (like Quark and even Affinity) are also clinging to threads but will eventually succumb so, as far as "If I can find an alternative design platform, I will move tomorrow."... Good luck.

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Explorer ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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Thanks for the help.

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Explorer ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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$600 for AG condensed!?

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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Responding by email still sends your response to the web where all of your personal information is on display. Please turn off your auto signature if you're going to reply that way.

 

I'll edit them this time.

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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Considering that every font foundry my shop has checked and tested has changed to the subscription / usage fee model, it's difficult to justify using these foundries for our client jobs. One foundry quoted us $40,000 US PER YEAR to use 4 weights in a government PDF that would be printed and posted on the agency's website.

 

I can't count high enough to calculate what it would cost to use their fonts in corporate branding. Gah!

 

Adobe is the good guy when it comes to fonts: free downloads and no recurring usage fees. Install them on your computer, embed them into PDFs and EPUBs, or use them on websites and in other digital media. No extra fees — at least at this time!

 

The only other font option is open-source fonts. Jointly developed by Google, Adobe and I can't recall who else, they are available for free from https://fonts.google.com/  They have a SIL license, which is a very liberal usage license that lets us designers do what we've always done with fonts, other than reselling them.

 

Bevi Chagnon | PubCom | Designer & Technologist for Accessible Documents
| Books & Classes | Accessible InDesign | Accessible PDFs | Accessible MS Office |

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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I didn't know there were ANY foundries left working on the "per inhale and exhale" model.

 


| Word & InDesign to Kindle & EPUB: a Pro Guide (Amazon)

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Community Expert ,
Mar 19, 2023 Mar 19, 2023

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Sounds like the foundries have seeing how much money can be made using the subscription model for applications and decided they should get a bigger piece of the pie.

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