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P: Crop properties in version 11 not copied correctly when using "previous" button

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 27, 2021 Nov 27, 2021

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SUMMARY, AN ATTEMPT TO DESCRIBE MY PROBLEM IN ONLY A FEW SENTENCES

The “Previous” button is meant to copy all kinds of properties from one source picture to a target picture. Up to version 10.1 it did not copy the crop factor when source and target were labeled “Original”. Unfortunately, in version 11 it is the aspect ratio copied from source to target, leaving the source on “Original” and the target on “Custom”. In my humble opinion the property “Original” should be copied, not the aspect ratio.

 

SOME HISTORY

It was probably in February 2021 that Adobe updated Lightroom Classic (“LrC”) from version 10.1.1 to 10.2. Unfortunately, in version 10.2 a bug appeared in the crop tool. When the properties from one “source” picture were copied to one or several “target” pictures, using the buttons “Synchronization” or “Previous”, the “Crop properties” were scrambled.
In February I visited Adobe's discussion panels without finding a proper answer. Then I discussed the bug with Adobe agents directly in June 2021. They promised me to improve this problem in a future LrC update.

 

UPDATE TO VERSION 11.0 ALMOST SUCCESSFUL BUT NOT QUITE

A few weeks ago a new version 11.0 of LrC was published, where I found a new layout of the crop tool. I am glad to tell you that it was a great improvement. However, I regret to say that I am not fully satisfied. There is still a property which was better in version 10.1. I will try explain what, in my opinion, goes wrong.

 

MY PROBLEM PARTLY SOLVED

Suppose a set of pictures is newly imported into LrC and will be treated in the “Development Module”. After import, all property values are set to 0 (zero) and (most important in my particular case) all pictures have “Crop property” =  “Original”.

Now I change, for instance, just the color of one “source” picture and I copy that color to several “target” pictures using the “Synchronization” button. It works perfect, only the color is changed as it should. Great, and no juggling of the Crop property as in LrC versions 10.2 to 10.4.

 

If only one “target” picture should be pasted with the properties from the “source” the “Previous” button is a good tool to use. And now something strange occurs.

In many cases the imported set of pictures comes from a photo camera, so automatically all pictures have the same aspect ratio (3 by 2 for instance). Using the “Previous” button works great. The target gets the Crop property “Original” if the source is “Original”. If the aspect ratio of the source has been changed manually, the target will get that same aspect ratio. Great stuff again.

 

BUT THE “PREVIOUS” PROBLEM STILL REMAINS FOR DIFFERENT ASPECT RATIOS

In many of my cases the set of jpegs I import into LrC are not directly from a camera, but from a previous run through Photoshop, LrC, from a stitching program or from a scanner. Anyway, the imported pictures may have different aspect ratios.

Initially, after importing, again all pictures have “Crop property” = “Original”. Changing the color only using the “Sync” button works great again: the color changes and all cropping values of the targets stay “Original” as they should. Great again.

 

Now I change the color for a source and I want to change the color for one target, using the “Previous” button. The aspect ratios of source and target are different, but for both pictures the “Crop property” = “Original” and I want to keep these aspect ratios as imported. However, ticking the previous button copies the color from source to target but also the aspect ratio. The “Crop property” of the source is kept as “Orginal”, the target ha a wrong aspect ratio and the “Crop property” has changed to “Custom”. I do not want that as I have to perform extra mouseclicks to put the “Crop property” back to “Original”. This effect is quite annoying and still version 10.1 is doing better.

 

KIND REGARDS

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Adobe Employee , Nov 29, 2021 Nov 29, 2021
Adding CR and LrC Bug numbers to notes and changing status to acknowledged. 
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Enthusiast ,
Oct 28, 2021 Oct 28, 2021

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I have come across a bug that I noticed happening back in Lightroom 10.4 but I had thought earlier it was an accidental keyboard error. Currently, I am using LRClassic 11 on Win10.

 

Steps to reproduce:

Select two photos from different cameras (tested with Nikon D500 & D750)

Select the 1st photo and apply a development step i.e. auto

Change to the 2nd photo and click on the previous button

Now in addition to the chosen development step from the other photo that a very tiny crop has been also applied (2-11 pixels and only on one dimension)

It only occurs when I use previous button when going between the photos of different cameras.

Applying previous button settings for successive photos of the same camera model - everthing goes ok.

 

The history panel does not show a crop being applied to the first source photo and there is no crop badge. The 2nd photo only shows 'paste settings' but there is a crop badge on the filmstrip thumbnail and loupe overlay data shows crop dimensions change.

 

Checked with several of test files and it happens with different camera vendors and also on two different full frame cameras. Also it does not matter if it is RAW or Jpg files.

 

I have not tried reseting LR prefences yet, but will see if that changes anything and will update later

 

-BH

 

 

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Enthusiast ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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While I did a lot of troubleshooting:

Reset LR preferences, updated video driver, turned GPU off/on and a new catalog all with no effect.
Also downloaded some other test photos to check that there were no cameraa settings from my own photos causing the issue.

 

A better description of the actual bug:
The use of "previous button" applies crop settings even when no cropping was done to the source photo and the destination photo has a different pixel h/w ratio than the source photo.
(LR thinks that since the pixel H/W ratios are different then this should be included in the settings to be applied.)

 


In previous versions of LRC when you clicked on the "previous" button it ignored? the photo pixel dimensions when the setting were being applied if you had not used the crop tool on the source.
Now, with the bug it is also looking at the image dimensions and including them in the "previous" setings if the two photos do not match ratios.

 

I found that the Nikon cameras D750, D780, D810 and Z6 all have pixel H/W ratios that are not exactly 1.5 (i.e D750 = 1.498007968)
The Nikon D500, D850, D5600, D6 and Z7 are all exactly 1.5

So, if you use the previous button without any cropping changes between a D750, D780, D810 or Z6 and another camera then a crop occurs.
If it is done between a D500, D850, D5600, D6 or Z7 then no cropping occurs.
No cropping occurs between photos from the same camera type.

 


This action would be acceptable when you do a copy/paste or sync settings and you explicitly select to include crop, but should not be included in "previous button" use if no cropping was previously performed on your source photo.

I found the same issue occuring with my old desktop and laptop
(tried reverting my laptop back to LRC versions 10.3 and 10.2 and had the same issues)

I have not done much photo editing for a while due to covid preventing my normal photo events from happening so only noticed this recently. So, not sure when it got introduced but I know it was not a problem before.

 

Chart of the pixel H/W ratios I refer to above:
Nikon Camera  H       W     Ratio
D750                6016  4016 1.498007968
D780                 6048 4024 1.502982107
D810                7360 4912 1.498371336
Z6                     6048 4024 1.502982107
D500                 5568 3712 1.5
D850                 8256 5504 1.5
D6                     5568 3712 1.5
Z7                      8256 5504 1.5
D5600               6000 4000 1.5

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Adobe Employee ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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What was the Crop Setting in the pulldown on the previous image?

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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Enthusiast ,
Oct 31, 2021 Oct 31, 2021

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All of the test images show the crop as 'Original'. This is the default they show after import.

In all of my tests, I started from the import history step then applied 'auto' development to the source then clicked on 'previous' after selecting the destination photo.

*Except for the D850 images I did a reset settings step before that, as they already had the some development settings that LR reads from the camera.

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Adobe Employee ,
Nov 01, 2021 Nov 01, 2021

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So if I have this correct:

 

  1. Edit image of a certain pixel dimension
  2. Select a second image of different pixel dimensions
  3. Apply from Previous

 

In step one is a crop included?

Does it do the same thing both with and without a crop in step 1?

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

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Enthusiast ,
Nov 01, 2021 Nov 01, 2021

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In step 1 -  no crop has been made

If a crop was made to the source photo then the destination photo has the same slight additional cropping applied so that the destination aspect is corrected to match the source. This is acceptable behaviour when dealing with the two different photo dimensions.

 

It just should not be introducing that crop change if the source did not have any crop adjustments at all?, same as if I only change source exposure then click previous on the destination photo I would not expect to see other development adjustments be applied as well.

 

Added some screen captures to show the source photo with only a exposure setting change the a before/after previous setting button for the destination note the destination long edge changes from 5568 to 5561 (Source D750 to Destination D500)

 

Source (Exposure setting the only change - no crop):

source.jpg

 

Destination Before Previous button:

Destination before.jpg

 

 

Destination after Previous button:

Destination after.jpg

 

There was a change not long ago to cropping on how accurate crop dimensions needed to be to match the crop presets, so this was probably introduced as a side effect? (It was less precise in earlier versions of LR)

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Nov 27, 2021 Nov 27, 2021

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You have stated

"The “Previous” button is meant to copy all kinds of properties from one source picture to a target picture."

My understanding is, any "adjustments" you make in the Develop module to a particular image will be copied to the next image selected when you click on the previous button.

Are you saying that is not what you are experiencing?

 

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.6.1, LrC 11.0.1, Lr 5, Ps 23.0,; Camera OM-D E-M1.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 27, 2021 Nov 27, 2021

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This bug was introduced after LR 10.1.1 and 10.4 or earlier. Steps for reproducing the bug:

 

1. Import the two attached photos.

 

2. Edit from.jpg in Develop.

 

3. Set Exposure = -2.

 

4. Move to to.jpg.

 

5. Do Settings > Paste Settings From Previous.

 

6. Observe that the Crop tool now shows to.jpg as being cropped with the 2 x 3 aspect ratio of from.jpg, even though no crop had been applied to from.jpg.

 

This incorrect behavior occurs in LR 11.0.1 and 10.4 but not in 10.1.1 or 6.14. See the attached screen recordings.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 27, 2021 Nov 27, 2021

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"There was a change not long ago to cropping on how accurate crop dimensions needed to be to match the crop presets, so this was probably introduced as a side effect?"

 

That bug was fixed in 8.1. This bug was introduced after 10.1.1 and 10.4 or earlier.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 27, 2021 Nov 27, 2021

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@Rikk Flohr: Photography, please merge this with another report of the same bug, for which I've provided a precise recipe and screen recordings:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/crop-properties-in-version-11-not-copie...

 

I think the merged bug report should be moved to Bugs -- three of us have now reproduced the symptoms, and I've shown it was introduced after 10.1.1 and 10.4 or earlier.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 28, 2021 Nov 28, 2021

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I tried to be very short in the description of my problem in the first few sentences, explaining the problem in more detail in the remaining sentences. Now I realise that first description was too short. Yes, you are right. The adjustments should be copied in the development mode.

All color adjustments work fine with the "Previous" button. But my problem is that the aspect ratio of one source is copied to the target with the "Previous" button, even if I do not want it. If the source is on "Original" in the crop tool, the target should be "Original" as well, but in the present version it changes to custom.

I will deal with it some more in the reply to  johnrellis.

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 28, 2021 Nov 28, 2021

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Thank you for the reply. So I am not the only one noting this problem.


The problem started with update 10.2. The crop tool became a complete mess. When adjustments were made to the color settings and were copied to a target, it seemed as if the crop tool behaved randomly. It was especially clear with the "Synchronization" button. If, for instance, the adjustments of one source was copied to five targets, all targets could have different crop settings, even if the source had the property "Original".

 

I contacted Adobe in June 2021 and they did a lot of work on this subject. They even used my computer remotely. As they could not find a quick solution they concluded that there was a bug although they called it, more friendly, an "issue", and they promised to improve it in an update.

My assumption is that things go wrong only when pictures imported in LrC have different aspect ratios. If all pictures come from one camera the crop tool works as it should. I never dived into this assumption, but I read the same problem from community member bhousto90 below using two different cameras.

 

We should credit Adobe for the improvements in the crop tool in version 11. The "Synchronization" works as it should, keeping the crop tool on "Original" if the source is "Original", and copying the "Custom" aspect ratios if the source is on "Custom". Also the "Previous" button has improved in version 11. No longer do we find the random errors in the crop tool.

 

So, I estimate the improvement is 90% compared to version 10.1 and my bug report is about the remaining 10%.
When using the "Previous" button, in my opinion, the property value "Original" should be copied from source to target, just as with the "Synch" button in version 11. However, in the present version, the aspect ratio from the source (with property "Original") is copied instead and the property value of the target has changed to "Custom". It is very annoying to set the property value back to "Original" manually each time I push the "Previous" button.
But once again: Photographers importing pictures directly from their camera probably do not suffer from this bug.

 

Regards

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 28, 2021 Nov 28, 2021

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Please see my reply to "johnrellis" in this thread.

 

Regards,

Sjinual

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Adobe Employee ,
Nov 29, 2021 Nov 29, 2021

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Adding CR and LrC Bug numbers to notes and changing status to acknowledged. 

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products
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