P: Updating process in LR4 unexpectedly zeroes out exposure brush value.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

We have discovered that when updating process from 2010 to 2012 (by setting one then copying metadata settings across), brushes remain on the photo but the exposure setting for these has been unexpectedly set to zero. As a result, retouching (eg brightening faces) is lost until we go back to each brush and correct the exposure value.

[Rikk-Flohr]

It may be because you have used "Brightness" in your PV2010 Adjustment Brush. PV2012 does not have a Brightness control. Brightness and Exposure are now a single slider called Exposure with slightly different behavior. You will need to decide which combination of Exposure, Highlights or Shadows does the best job and adjust each accordingly.

This problem doesn't happen to too many people because it is accepted wisdom that you don't upgrade an image PV unless you need to, The lack of a direct conversion between the two adjustment sets makes it problematic.

If your image is finished, don't update. If you do update, realize that local adjustments may have to be tweeked individually.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

BUG.

I've looked at this some more and I do believe it is a bug. In fact the zeroing out only happens when PV is applied using Sync Settings (with only PV selected).

To replicate this I applied a brush on a PC 2010 image with all attributes set to maximum. Clicking on the exclamation mark to convert to PV2012 produced the desired result. However using Sync Settings instead, caused Exposure, Contrast, Clarity all to be set to zero. Saturation and Sharpness were correctly left alone in the conversion.

[Rikk:] In answer to your comments, yes of course many people don't need to update PV2010 images. However mine are constrasty Leica shots and they benefit significantly from PV2012's better handling of shadow areas, so as I reuse my images I am updating most of them. I am expecting to make adjustments to all of them, but not to have to fix things that LR has unexpectedly zeroed out. In general a slightly bump on clarity and sometimes shadow levels is required, but I should not have to open up every brush and put back my settings.

[Rikk-Flohr]

Just tested as you described and I am not seeing it.

When I use sync, I get precisely the same results as I do when hitting the exclamation point.

Everything remains in place except the new tools Highlights, Shadows, Noise, Moire, and Defringe which are all zero.

You may want to reboot or rename your Prefs file and see if the behavior persists.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I was able to reproduce this fully.

1. Rename preferences, reboot Windows 7, start LR, create a fresh catalog.

2. Import two new files (Canon EOS 1d) as DNG.

3. Go into develop mode on first file. Set PV to 2010. Paint a big blob in the centre and set all brush settings to maximum.

4. Go into Grid mode. Sync Settings from second image to first, selecting only process version.

Voila: The big blob on the first image disappears (only saturation and sharpness remain unchanged).

[Rikk-Flohr]

I followed your steps but it works fine here. The adjustment remains intact on Image 1. Tested on Win 7 64 and Mac 10.6.8. Canon 5DMKII Converted to DNG

The only way I can make it disappear is to select both PV and Local Adjustments in the Sync Settings operation. PV version alone will not do it.

I cannot duplicate your results.

[hillrg]

Hi Stephen

I am able to reproduce your behavior. This does indeed appear to be a bug.

Rory

[Rikk-Flohr]

I just tried it on a second Win 7 machine here and it is working properly. For Stephan and Rory,

Are you on LR 4.1?
did you leave out a step in your 4 step example?

[hillrg]

I am on win 7 and LR 4.1. In step 4 I synced with another image that was V2012.

Rory

[Rikk-Flohr]

So did I, Rory.

There is either a subtle step that I am missing or we have another issue.

[LRuser24]

It's a general problem, not just exposure brush. I can reproduce it using a similar approach using a single photo:

1. Reset a photo to Adobe defaults
2. Copy settings - select only the process version (which is PV2012 now)
3. Set PV to 2010
4. Set PV2010 exposure to e.g. +3
5. Paste settings

Expected behaviour: Exposure remains on +3 (or at least converted to similar PV2012 value)
Actual behaviour: Exposure is reset to zero

It is a general problem that also happens when syncing or applying a preset: When pasting, syncing or applying a preset containing PV2012 to a PV2010 photo, there is no automatic conversion to PV2012. Instead, the previously assigned PV2012-values appear. Automatic conversion is only possible via "!" button or using the calibration panel when switching to PV2012. I don't know whether this is intended or a bug. I would think bug.

What I mean by "previously assigned" can be shown as follows:

1. Reset a photo to Adobe defaults
2. Copy settings - select only the process version (which is PV2012 now)
3. Set PV2012 exposure to e.g. -3
4. Set PV to 2010
5. Set PV2010 exposure to e.g. +3
6. Paste settings

Expected behaviour: Exposure remains on +3
Actual behaviour: Exposure is reset to -3, which was the previously used value in PV2012.

IMHO this is a big conceptual problem how LR handles different process versions in copy/paste, sync and presets. It looks like this was not thought through completely. This problem makes every copy/paste, sync and preset operation completely unpredictable when the PV is changed and *not* all PV-specific settings are copied, too.

[Rikk-Flohr]

LRUSER24. I am guessing this is probably a different topic as it doesn't involve adjustment brushes.

I can duplicate your behavior steps but not the original poster's

[LRuser24]

IMHO it is exactly the same topic. You can exchange "exposure" with "a brush with exposure". Both my example and the OPs example are symptoms of the same underlying problem.

P.S. I will try to reproduce the OPs example with normal exposure.

EDIT: I reproduced the OPs problem using brush, global exposure and clarity. In general, all settings that now have different PV2010- and PV2012-values are affected.

EDIT 2: But I wonder why you cannot reproduce it. My system is Win 7 64 Bit with LR 4.1.

[Rikk-Flohr]

The OP did not mention a global exposure.

[LRuser24]

Perhaps I did not express it clearly enough: I think the OPs problem is not specifically related to the brush. Instead, there is a more general underlying problem with all values that now have new PV2012-counterparts. This *includes* the brush's exposure.

[Rikk-Flohr]

I have tried three separate Win 7 64 boxes now (and one Mac). They all behave as the OP expects-but not as the OP reports. As I said, there must be a step I am missing or there is something more going on.

[LRuser24]

Ok, so here is my one-photo-version again, but this time exactly on-topic with the OPs problem (I hope):

1. Reset a photo to Adobe defaults
2. Copy settings - select only the process version (which is PV2012 now)
3. Set PV to 2010
4. Brush: Paint a blob with all settings on maximum
5. Paste settings (or sync the PV from a second PV2012-photo)

...and the blob disappears (only saturation and sharpness values "survive").

[Rikk-Flohr]

The OP is using two files and the file being Synced from is PV 2010.

Your steps are different than the OP's.

They are not using Copy and Paste but Sync.

When I follow your steps, I get the same result as you - when I follow their's I get expected results.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

> The OP is using two files and the file being Synced from is PV 2010

No, the file I am syncing FROM is PV2012. The file I am syncing TO is PV2010 with a brush on it.

I confirm LRuser24's finding that the same problem occurs with copy/paste the PV setting.

[Rikk-Flohr]

You are correct Stephan, I wrote it wrong two posts up.

LRUser24 Copy/Paste Settings does fail as I indicated two posts back.

Now, I just have to figure out how to get your scenario to fail.

We will need an engineer to chime in on LRUser24's query about bug or as-designed.

[LRuser24]

When trying to reproduce the steps of Stephen Page, did you by any chance convert the first image from PV2010 to PV2012 and back after drawing the brush blob? In this case, the PV2012-exposure-value of the brush is already set by the conversion and is preserved when the PV is synced to PV2012. Also, all my examples work correctly then.

Perhaps you can try the following steps. This example is using two photos (like the example of Stephen Page), however it seems to be reproducable without any deletion of preferences, re-import, etc. You can use two existing photos in the catalog.

1. Reset photo #1 to Adobe defaults
2. Reset photo #2 to Adobe defaults (both should be PV 2012 now)
3. Change photo #1 to PV2010 in calibration panel
4. On photo #1, draw a brush "blob" with exposure set to maximum; close brush panel
5. Select both photos, activate photo #2 and sync only the PV to photo #1

The brush on photo #1 disappears (i.e. it is still there, but with exposure set to zero).

[Rikk-Flohr]

Possible. I will check it out and see.

[dorin_nicolaescu]

I can see what's the problem.

You're trying to sync some global adjustments from a PV2012 image to a PV2010 one. In the process, you're expecting local adjustments on the target photo to update themselves to the new process too, even though you're not syncing them.

But, I am not sure Sync or Copy/Paste are supposed to update any adjustment to a newer process. Technically, they're doing what they are supposed to do: copying adjustment values from one image to another.

I think I'll report it as bug and see what's the official response.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

> you're expecting local adjustments on the target photo to update themselves to the new process too

Actually I am not looking for the adjustments to be "right" aftet sync applies PV2012, just "still there".

The typical scenario is a photo which has been worked on some time ago, with lots of dodging and burning etc. Client wants a new set of prints so we look at the session photos and decide to sync the whole lot to the new 2012 engine. We expect to have to go in and tweak things, but setting adjustment brush values to zero and making all the dodging and burning disappear is a little strange (or buggy).

Thanks for the interest in this. Let's see whether you can get an official response.

[dorin_nicolaescu]

I think a reasonable workaround for the time being is updating the target images to PV2012 (push that "!" button) just before syncing or pasting.