Using Wide Gamut (Dell u2711) With Lightroom

[grandpahenry]

I have just completed an upgrade of my computer system to include 2 Dell U2711 27" monitors.  I am using LR 3.5.  My system is running with Windows 7 64 bit and a ATI Firepro graphics card running the displays. 

Before purchasing these, and listening to the chatter on various forums I was led to belive that I was going to get garish coloration on all applications except Adobe LR and CS5.  This does not seem to be the case.  LR and CS5 are fine and the other applications IE and Windows Office seem to be OK as well.

These displays are calibrated at the factory.

Does anyone have any experience with these and can share any "gotchas" with me.

Henry

[ambienttroutmask]

Factory calibration means that a standard profile will have been supplied with your machine for use by the OS for installation from a disk or just that the monitor has been checked to see that it actually can display a wider gamut than sRGB, it does not mean that the individual monitor has a individual profile created for use by your OS in your viewing conditions (as this would be impossible). The problems with standard calibrations are many

• Each monitor varies.
• Viewing conditions also vary.
• Often these profiles are corrupt.

It is always best to calibrate your monitor using the appropriate calibration device and to preform the calibration on a regular basis a profile is essential for colour managed applications to work well. For colour managed applications such as LR this is very important and even more so on wide gamut monitors if your output images are to achieve any sort of consistency when viewed on other monitors.

[CSS_Simon]

Which colour preset mode are you using?  If you are using sRGB then you have effectively set your wide-gamut monitor into a standard-gamut mode. 

[grandpahenry]

Thank you for your reply.  My Dell monitors arrived with a color calibration factory report apparently tied to the individual monitor serial number.  I purchased 2 and the test reports list different serial numbers.  Dell used a Minolta Color Analyzer CA210.  I have a Datacolor DC S3SSR100 Spyder 3 Studio SR which I plan to use as soon as I fully understand my use of these new monitors.  These monitors have a number of presets that include sRGB and Adobe RGB. I currently have both monitors set to the Adobe RGB preset.  In fact one of the reasons for choosing the U2711 was the choices of presets.  My original plan was to use the Adobe RGB preset only when doing photo editing and use sRGB when using IE 8 and other non-color aware applications.  But I don't seem to need to switch back and forth. 

When I was doing the research I was advised that although LR 3 and CS5 were color aware and using ProPhoto as their working space I would be disapointed in the way colors would be displayed for applications such as IE 8 and MS Office.  My Epson 3880 printer is capable of displaying wide gamut.  The colors displayed seem a little different but not "garish" as I was led to believe.  Also my display screen background picture, a 100% quality JPG photo taken with my Canon 5D II does seem OK to me.  I am pleased with the way my photos display in LR and CS5.

The one thing that I have noticed is that there seems to be no observable, at least to me, of the material displayed when I switch between the sRGB and Adobe RGB presets.  I am using Windows 7 64 Bit. 

One thing that has me puzzled is that when I display the Windows settings using the "Screen Resolution" the monitor is set to "True Color".  I have seen that setting before on my previous system, XP Pro, and am wondering if I have missed something in my setup process.  When I received the monitors I was told that they are "plug and play" and did not require any special drivers.  I just hooked them up using Display Port cables and they cam right up at the maximum resolution of 2560 x 1440. 

My questions are:

1.  Why am I not seeing the disapointing performace that folks warned me about if I used wide gamut displays?

2.  Have I missed something in my setup? 

3.  I am assuming that when I calibrate I will have to calibrate the Adobe RGB preset and each other preset if I choose to use any others.

[CSS_Simon]

I'm not quite sure what's going on here!

However, for accurate colour, especially with a wide-gamut monitor, you really need it calibrated and profiled with a hardware device (Spyder, Eye One, Color Munki...).  I don't think the factory calibrations on the 2711 are terribly accurate (according to

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2711.htm), and your own calibration will be better.  From that review, the custom mode is best for that. 

With the monitor set to any wide-gamut mode (including Custom and Adobe RGB), the monitor will definitely display sRGB images (which most are) in more garish colour when viewed in non-managed applications than in CS5 or LR.  Why?  Because a wide-gamut monitor displays any particular RGB values with more saturated colour, compared to how a normal-gamut monitor would display the same RGB values.  That's what wide-gamut monitors do!  So any non-managed application (such as the Windows desktop and non-managed browsers such as IE - even IE9) will display any image with more saturated colour on a wide-gamut monitor than on a normal-gamut monitor. 

But if you've calibrated and profiled the monitor (with a hardware device), then there will be an appropriate profile associated with the device in W7 control panel, colour management settings.  Colour managed programs (Lightroom, CS5, Firefox, Safari...) use the profile to map RGB values from whatever colour space they're in (sRGB, Adobe RGB, ProPhoto or whatever) into the monitor's colour space.  So any image will look right on any monitor, provided there is an appropriate profile set (and you're using a colour-managed program to display the image). 

My suggestion: calibrate and profile the monitor using a hardware device in custom mode.  Use that for photo work.  When you want to use non-managed programs, switch to sRGB mode.  No need to change the profile: non-managed programs ignore it anyway. 

Sorry if I've misunderstood what you've set, and my comments are thus nonsense in that context!

[ambienttroutmask]

You still seem to confusing different things.

A calibration profile is required for colour management. This is produced individually for a monitor by a calibration device and is loaded by the OS of the computer. It is used to ensure that any colour space is displayed accurately.

The data sheet attached to your monitor is just the confirmation by the manufacturer that the screen will display the full range of colours in particular colour spaces. It is nothing to do with a profile which is required for colour management.

sRGB, AdobeRGB, ProPhoto RGB etc. are all colour spaces and not profiles. Profile are individual to whatever is being profiled, in this case a monitor.

You can use you monitor without any colour management and can set a colour space to be used as the profile if you wish. This may make everything look fine on your monitor, however it will be no guarantee of colour across other machines.

Colour management is required if you wish to ensure consistency of colour across colour managed applications on different machines, it is not about how good or bad things look.

[Todd Shaner]

"1. Why am I not seeing the disapointing performace that folks warned me about if I used wide gamut displays?"

Are you using any non-color managed applications?

"3. I am assuming that when I calibrate I will have to calibrate the Adobe RGB preset and each other preset if I choose to use any others."

This was discussed at length on another LR forum post. The operating system has no way knowing which mode you are selecting with your display's internal controls, so it can switch your Spyder HW calibrated monitor profiles from the Adobe RGB mode profile to the sRGB profile. You would need to be able to create separate profiles and then switch them using your OS's color management profiling tools. Dell provides factory calibration of the displays Adobe RGB and sRGB modes using an internal LUT, which is not accessible by your Spyder HW calibrator. To use these factory calibrated modes you must install and assign the single monitor profile provided on the installation CD from Dell. Doing so will make it very difficult to calibrate and use both of your monitor's "built-in" Adobe RGB and sRGB modes. You would need to 1) switch the display's mode control and then 2) go into the OS's color management and reassign the correct profile.

Best suggestion is to give up the factory calibrated display presets 'Adobe RGB and sRGB, use the 'User' custom mode only, and then calibrate the monitor with your Spyder HW calibration device. Your monitor will then only work as a "wide gamut" display, but a better functioning monitor for use with "color managed" applications.

"One thing that has me puzzled is that when I display the Windows settings using the "Screen Resolution" the monitor is set to "True Color". I have seen that setting before on my previous system, XP Pro, and am wondering if I have missed something in my setup process."

Display settings should to native resolution (2560 x 1440?), 32 bit "True Color" mode, and 60 Hz refresh......and I didn't even mention 10 bit color!

[grandpahenry]

Thank you for your reply,

I mostly use LR 3.5 and CS5.  I recently upgraded from IE8 to IE9 because I am told that it is color aware.  Beside that I use a lot of small utilities where color does not not matter.  I am only interested in color management as it applies to having my workflow from camera, to LR or CS5, and then to my Epson 3880. 

When pulling up the settings for the monitors under "Screen Resolution" in Windows 7 64 bit I see that there is no profile associated with the monitors, I have 2, and the driver is a PNP driver supplied by MS.  I am using the Adobe RGB preset on the monitors.  The only thing I changed so far is to reduce the brightness and contrast from 50/50 to 40/40 as the screen is just to bright at 50/50.  The display settings are as you mentioned, 2560x1440, true color, and 60 Hz refresh.

I just took a series of photos (RAW) and processed them in LR making corrections to white balance and a couple of other things and sent them to the printer using the Epson supplied ICC profile for the paper I am using.  This is the first time I could send a photo and have the reliative brightness match on the display and print.  I have always had to over brighten the photos in LR to avoid getting a print that was too dark.  The colors were not a perfect match between display and print but the best I have ever been able to achieve.

This is the first time I have ever installed a new device on a system that has not required a device driver for that device.  The setup instructions do not even mention the disk that came with the device.  My initial contact with Dell did not seem to know anything about the disk.  I have opened up the disk and see that there is a file called monitor.exe but no instructions on procedure.  I am reluctant to run this program without some explanation of its function.

It has always been my intention to calibrate the monitors and have the Datacolor Spyder 3 Studio SR, which Datacolor support tells me is their best product.  I have also read some reviews that rate the product very well.  I have not been able to get a straight answer on whether I can calibrate these 2 monitors individually and have each monitor have its own generated profile.  I am thinking that it may become important later on as these monitors may age a bit differently over time.

I am going to reach out to Dell again, as well as do some further research and attempt to understand the function of monitor.exe on the disk. 

Has anyone installed U2711 monitors and used a driver disk?

[CSS_Simon]

"I recently upgraded from IE8 to IE9 because I am told that it is color aware."

IE9 is sort of colour-aware, but unfotunately Microsoft didn't do it properly; they've half implemented colour-management.  It ignores monitor profiles and is wholly useless on a wide-gamut monitor (or in fact any monitor that isn't very close to sRGB, which is nearly all monitors).  It beggars belief why Microsoft should have bothered to do only half the job.  It's like putting only the front wheels on a car. 

"I am only interested in color management as it applies to having my workflow from camera, to LR or CS5, and then to my Epson 3880"

Do you mean that you want the correct colour on your printer, but don't mind whether it's right on your monitor?  I'm sure that's not what you mean!  I'm guessing you mean that you want colour management for your monitor (so you see the correct colours on your monitors) and colour management for your printer (so you get the same correct colours on your printer).

To get correct colours on your monitor, you need a profile.  (You also need profiles for your printer, of course.)

If you don't have a profile, programs have to guess what RGB values to send to the monitor to get a particular colour.  It's not enough that you've set Adobe RGB mode in the monitor, you have to tell Lightroom and CS5 that you've done it.  You do that by setting an appropriate profile.  I don't know what profiles come with the 2711, but if Dell provides a suitable profile for the Adobe RGB preset then set that in the control panel colour management settings if you're using Adobe RGB preset.  But better by far is to spend another $100 and get a hardware colorimiter to measure the characteristics of your monitors and create your own profiles. 

PS - if there is no monitor profile associated with the monitor, I think LR assumes the monitor to be sRGB.  A quick test suggested that was happening, and it would be the logical thing to do.  However, without a profile set, if you change the monitor from sRGB to Adobe RGB you should definitely see a difference on the display.  Are you sure no profile is set?  When you go in Control Panel, Color management, if the "Device:" drop-down is set to either of your monitors, then the "Profiles associated with this device" should have a list of profiles, and one of them will have "(default)" at the end of the name (some names can be quite long, so make sure you can see the end).  If so - what is the name of the default profile?

[Todd Shaner]

I have opened up the disk and see that there is a file called monitor.exe but no instructions on procedure. I am reluctant to run this program without some explanation of its function.

This is a monitor refresh rate utility and not want you want. Look for a file ending in .icm, like 'Dell_u2711.icm.' Without a profile assigned to each monitor most applications assume the device is sRGB profile as a default. You need to find the .icm monitor profile on the CD, copy it to C:\Windows\system32\spool\drivers\color folder, and then go to Control Panel > Color Management to add and assign as 'default' for each of your monitors. This will allow you to properly use the 'Adobe RGB' and 'sRGB display modes.

Be aware that changing the display's Contrast and/or Brightness controls from the factory default settings (50?) may affect the color accuracy of the preset calibrations. Using a factory calibrated preset, with an internal LUT that is inaccessible by the user, calibrated at an inappropriate brightness level (i.e. for Gaming Applications), is simply a bad idea for professional photo editing usage. NEC's SpectraView displays use a software app that allows YOU the end user to calibrate the display's internal LUT, not the graphic card's LUT.

The better solution dor the Dell u2711 is to set the display mode to a "user" custom setting, which I think is titled 'Standard....don't know! Then use you Spyder HW calibrator and software to create a custom profile. This allows adjusting the display's controls for luminance and color temp settings more suitable for photo editing (100 cd/M2 luminance and 6500K color temp), before the monitor profile is created!

Try calibrating one (1) of your Dell u2711 displays and then compare it to the other u2711 display using its Adobe RGB and sRGB modes. Then you can judge the results for yourself!

[grandpahenry]

Simon, thank you for your reply. 

I don't know what the deal with IE9 is but I think it is terrible.  I don't like the new interface at all and it forgot where all my favorities were.  The good news is that a set a restore point before installing IE9 and just restored it back.  I did not really see much, if any improvement in color rendering.  If there is any good news here is that I could never really trust checkpoint/restore in XP Pro - half the time it did not work.  Seems to work just great in Windows 7 64 bit.  I routinely set a restore point whenever I make a change to the system software.

In terms of "profiles" in the color management screen under the devices tab there are no profiles associated with this device.  If I select the "Advanced" tab the first entry is Device Profile: System default (sRGB IEC6196-2.1). I am uncertain as to how this might  or might not conflict with the preset Adobe RGB I have selected on the display itself.

The last time I did calibrated monitors was on the XP Pro system that my new system has replaced.  The calabration software put the profile into the list of profiles and assigned the monitor the calibrated profile.  Unfortunately under XP both monitors had to use the same profile which was less than optimum.

I need to learn more about this.

Henry

[CSS_Simon]

It sounds as though you don't have a profile associated with the monitors.  As trshaner says, see if any .icm files came with the Dell documentation. 

I definitely recommend getting a hardware calibration device.  It's a shame to spend money on good monitors and then not spend a little bit more to calibrate and profile them.  A good recent article about the different ones out there is at http://www.drycreekphoto.com/Learn/Calibration/MonitorCalibrationHardware.html.  If it's any help, I wrote an brief overview at http://www.simongarrett.co.uk/ColourManagementCheatSheet.htm, and at the bottom there's a list of links to sites I've found helpful. 

[Todd Shaner]

Unfortunately under XP both monitors had to use the same profile which was less than optimum.

Windows 7 and your dual LUT ATI FirePro graphics card will alow assiging a seperate HW monitor calibration profile to each of your displays. Your Spyder 3 software application will assign the calibration profiles automatically to tthe respective display, there is nothing you need to do.

With XP if you were using a graphics card that had a dual LUT you could have downloaded the Microsoft Color Control Panel to assign the individual profiles.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/dual_monitor_calibration.html

[grandpahenry]

I don't have any problem "calibrating".  I have the top of the line Datacolor Spyder 3 Studio SR and plan to use it as soon as I clear up a few things that I don't understand.  I am getting 2 different answers from Dell regarding drivers for the 2711.  One tells me that I don't need any drivers as long as I am getting full functionality, i.e., resolution, etc. from the device.  After I hooked them up they were recognized at full resolution.  Another person at Dell tells me that I should download the latest version of the driver apparently available in a self extrating file called monitor.exe, which is on the CD.  That CD is not even mentioned in the Dell setup guide. As simon suggested I searched the CD and found a file U2711.icm 

I guess I could copy that file over to the location on the C drive where profiles are stored an select it just to see what might happen.  As I said there is no profile associated with either monitor.

I tried getting escalated to a level 2 tech but got cutoff during the process.  What I am trying to learn is should I select a u2711 preset prior to beginning the calibration process.  There is a preset called "custom", should I choose that one.  If the profile only becomes active when I choose that preset then I could just choose custom whenever I am using my two main color aware applications, LR 3.5 and CS5.

I did speak with Datacolor and mentioned a comment that I had seen that the LUT tables in the monitors were not reachable with software.  They gave me a program called Gammatest.exe wou which verified that the LUT tables were available to Spyder 3.

[CSS_Simon]

Well if you've got a Spyder 3, and Datacolor confirm it's fine with the 2711 then I reckon you're all set. 

I would try without the Dell driver; sometimes monitor drivers can interfere with calibration/profiling software.  The Datacolor software will create its own profiles, so no need to load the Dell ones. 

I don't know the 2711, but the TFT Central review (http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2711.htm) seems to suggest using the custom preset when creating your own profiles. 

[Todd Shaner]

I did speak with Datacolor and mentioned a comment that I had seen that the LUT tables in the monitors were not reachable with software. They gave me a program called Gammatest.exe wou which verified that the LUT tables were available to Spyder 3.

1) Did you run this test yourself and are you sure it indicated the 'Dell u2711 LUTs' were accessable, and it wasn't detecting the two LUTs in your ATI FirePro graphics card?

2) Did Datacolor provide you a procedure for having the Spyder software load the calibration data into the Dell u2711's display LUT? There would need to be an option in the Spyder software to convert the profile data to a format compatible with the Dell monitor's LUT hardware, and then a way to load it (DDC?). Perhaps Datacolor can provide you with more detailed instructions.

If this is possible, you will still need to assign a monitor profile in Windows so applications can identify the display correctly (i.e. wide gamut Adobe RGB profile). A suitable profile may in fact be the Dell u2711.icm file provided on CD.

IMHO – Wide gamut display technology has a long way to go before it is 'Plug & Play,' AND affordable. This will require Display manufacturers and Calibration Equipment manufacturers working together to develop compatible hardware and software. To my knowledge only EIZO and NEC have done so, but at a price only a professional can justify. In addition, 30 bit color support is needed to help prevent "stair-stepping" due to the extended gamut range. Currently only PS CS5 supports 30 bit color, but only when using a 30 bit graphics card with Open GL support. Lightroom currently does not support Open GL or 30 bit color.

[grandpahenry]

Tshaner,

They had me download the program and run it. It was supposed to put a magenta hue to the screen and it did so. I cannot answer the question about the 2 LUTs in the ATI card as I perhaps mistakenly thought that LUTs were always in the display.

Your points are well taken and I will be sure to follow up on this when I actually begin the calibration.

Thanks for all you help,

Henry

[Panagon-1]

Henry, for educational purpose you may want to read the discussion below:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/3283197#3283197

[TheDigitalDog]

grandpahenry wrote:

Does anyone have any experience with these and can share any "gotchas" with me.

The flash galleries are not color managed so when you move from say Develop to Web, load a Flash web gallery, the previews will be slightly different (as well the resulting flash web gallery you view).

In terms of LUTs, great when used within the panel itself as a tiny number of displays support (Eizo, NEC SpectraView), not useful when used on the graphic system. Ideally the graphic card LUT is totally linear, the LUT in the panel handles everything.

[grandpahenry]

I have spoken to 2nd level support both at ATI and Dell and have learned the following:

1.  The ATI Firepro V5800 does not modify color for data passing through the graphics card.  All color adjustment is through the profiles used with the display.

2.  With the Dell U2711 any calibration done on the monitor "must" be done using the "custom" preset.  When that is done the resulting profile will only apply to the "custom" preset leaving the other factory supplied presets in tact and will be one I use during photo processing and perhaps all applications depending on how the non-photo applications appear on the display.    

Just as an aside, I have tested using the factory presets sRGB and Adobe RGB (wide gamut) and find that the resulting display and prints a nearly a match even though I am using a generic PNP driver and no profile at all. .  I am using an Epson 3880, Epson Ink, Epson paper, and Epson ICC profiles.  There is a bit of variance in flesh tones that I have not figured out. One thing that I have noticed that the dark print problem that used to plauge me when using my previous Viewsonic monitors.  I used to have to boost the brightness setting in LR otherwise the prints would be way to dark.  I have not experienced the "garish" results with IE8 and Office 2010 as had been reported in the ether. As I test I installed Firefox 7.1 and did not see a lot of difference in appearance,

My camera is a Canon 5D Mark II shooting in RAW mode.  I am using the Prophoto as my work space in LR 3.5 and CS5

I am

[CSS_Simon]

Interesting information, thanks for sharing.

One experiment you might like to try: measure the factory Adobe RGB and sRGB modes with your Spyder.  I don't know if the supplied software alows you do this (I don't think so), but the "Colorimetre HCFR" software (download link half way down this page: http://www.homecinema-fr.com/colorimetre/index_en.php) works with most colorimeters, and allows you to measure colour space, gamma and so on. 

Sample display below, and you can also show colour temp, gamma etc:

[Todd Shaner]

1. The ATI Firepro V5800 does not modify color for data passing through the graphics card. All color adjustment is through the profiles used with the display.

This assumes the Dell supplied monitor profile is "linear," which as Andrew Rodney pointed out is the most desirable when using a display with it's own internal LUT. It makes no sense to correct the display data twice using two LUTs!

2. With the Dell U2711 any calibration done on the monitor "must" be done using the "custom" preset. When that is done the resulting profile will only apply to the "custom" preset leaving the other factory supplied presets in tact

This not true – A hardware monitor calibration for your "custom" preset creates a new (non-linear) monitor profile, which gets loaded into your graphics card's LUT. Once you've done that the Adobe RGB and sRGB display preset modes are no longer calibrated! That's why I said the display manufacturers and monitor calibration equipment manufacturers need to start working together to create a standard method for creating an option to load the monitor profile into the graphics card LUT (as it is now), or the display LUT for montiors like the Dell U2711.

Go ahead and try it, but please report back the affect to the Adobe RGB and sRGB presets after creating and loading the "custom preset" monitor profile with your Spyder HW calibrator.

[grandpahenry]

Well I am glad that I am taking my time on this calibration process. I thought I had it understood correctly. I am making my dialog with Dell a part of this message so you can see the exchange I had with their 2nd level of support and I am also a document from Dell engineering. Please take a look at these and I will call Dell again if necessary.

Sorry For The Long Post

Otrman

FROM MY EXCHANGE WITH DELL:

It would be excellent if I could use a calibrated “custom” present on the monitor for LR and CS5 and simply select one of the presets (sRGB or Adobe RGB) when I am not using LR and CS5. I am not running with any monitor profile and a generic PNP driver now and I am getting much better results than I expected. I would just un-select the profile when I did not want to use the calibrated “custom” preset.

Based on the data engineering provided me in the document I sent that is correct( Yes).

From: Henry Morse

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 4:30 PM

To: Glickman, David

Subject: RE: PremierColor FAQ_SVC.doc Case 844545167

David, Please just say yes or no to this:

Are you telling me that ONLY the “custom” preset will be altered and that the other presets will remain at the “factory” settings.

Yes or No, believe me it is very important and will increase sales of this monitor if this statement gets passed along as true. Is this worth a conversation between you and engineering to verify? It would be to me and the rest of us photographers. Sorry, but this statement in the documentation is not the way I used to word my writings as an electrical engineer back in the day.

Henry

From: David_Glickman@Dell.com

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 4:47 PM

To: otrman@optonline.net

Subject: RE: PremierColor FAQ_SVC.doc Case 844545167

Based on the data engineering provided me in the document I sent that is correct.

David

From: Henry Morse

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 3:22 PM

To: Glickman, David

Subject: RE: PremierColor FAQ_SVC.doc Case 844545167

Importance: High

David,

I still need clarification here.

“My personal suggestion is that since you are doing custom photo/video work that these LCD are being used for, I would calibrate them for your business purposes and leave as such. With the enhanced video settings normal internet browsing and such will have better clarity.”

Are you telling me that ONLY the “custom” preset will be altered and that the other presets will remain at the “factory” settings. This is an important question for all of us who want to use this monitor for photographic work. If we photographers can have one of the presets, namely, “custom” calibrated, and the others left as shipped then we can choose the customer preset for our work and switch back to sRGB or Adobe RGB for routine office and billing functions. If this is true, and the photography world learns of this, Dell will sell a lot of U2711s, especially considering that the U2711 is an excellent price performer. an

I have been doing research on this for myself and to share with a number of user forums on photography. I want to get right for my own use and for sharing with the photography community.

Henry

From: David_Glickman@Dell.com

Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 8:26 AM

To: otrman@optonline.net

Cc: David_Glickman@Dell.com

Subject: RE: PremierColor FAQ_SVC.doc Case 844545167

Henry,

Per the documents as with any calibration you must be careful and aware of settings you change. Use the setting CUSTOM COLOR if you want to calibrate using your own equipment as per document.

In regards to your question on your video card as the manufacture /forums recommends you should disable any color managements since you are using your own color/video calibration tools.

My personal suggestion is that since you are doing custom photo/video work that these LCD are being used for, I would calibrate them for your business purposes and leave as such. With the enhanced video settings normal internet browsing and such will have better clarity.

Have a good day.

David

From: Henry Morse

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 6:08 PM

To: Glickman, David

Cc: otrman@optonline.net

Subject: RE: PremierColor FAQ_SVC.doc Case 844545167

Good Evening David,

Thank you for taking the time to discuss color management for my recently acquired U2711 monitors.

According to what we discussed when I use calibration hardware and software you mentioned that I should use only the “custom” setting and that once I calibrated the monitor “all” factory setting would be overwritten and cannot be restored. When I read the word document you sent me I believe I am seeing something that needs clarification:

Question 7 from the word document:

7. Is it possible to revert to factory pre-tuned settings after I color calibrated my unit with my equipment?

The customer should not re-calibrate and save your result in sRGB and AdobeRGB preset modes. Once overwritten, it is not possible to revert back to factory pre-tuned setting. The customer is advised to use the "Custom Color" preset mode to do their own calibrations.

Does this mean that only the “custom” preset is altered from the factory setting to store the results of my calibration? Does this mean that if I use the “custom” preset only for calibration that sRGB and AdobeRGP will not be changed from the factory setting? Does this mean that each of the U2711 presets have its own LUT table? Can you please clarify?

If this turns out to be the case I can use the sRGB preset, with no profile as it is now, for routine processing with non-color aware applications, and then select the newly calibrated “custom” preset when doing photo processing. Is this the case? After reading the attachment I believe I have to be very careful not to negatively affect my monitors as they cannot be reverted to factory settings.

I have done some additional research that includes the relationship between monitors and some high end graphics cards such as the ATI Firepro V5800 card I am using. This research indicates that I should disable any efforts by the graphics card to do color management lest I interfere with the efforts to calibrate the monitors.

I am probably being a bit picky but having more than 50 years in the technical end of computers I have been burned more than once having two elements of a computing system fight each other.

Again, thank you for your help on this.

Henry

From: David_Glickman@Dell.com

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2011 9:20 AM

To: otrman@optonline.net

Cc: David_Glickman@Dell.com

Subject: PremierColor FAQ_SVC.doc

Good Morning Henry,

Just to follow up on our phone conversation. I have attached a word document regarding some of the question on the U2711 settings and calibration. I also have a couple of hyperlinks one to the Dell support on the monitor. Based on our conversation I believe I have answered your questions regarding the calibration of the LCD. Please let me know later or over the weekend if you still have questions and I will follow up with you on Monday if needed.

Dell manual link:

http://www.support.dell.com/support/edocs/MONITORS/U2711b/en/index.htm

I have included a couple of non-Dell support links for you to do some testing

http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_page_profile/embeddedJPEGprofiles.html#

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

http://yfrog.com/3u100percentrampp

Have a great weekend

David Glickman

Advanced Technical Analyst| Executive Escalations | MCP,MCDST, MCITP,MCSE

Dell | Client Resolution Expert Center, Global Services

phone +1 512 513 6078; 800 289 3355, ext. 5136078

Office hours: 7:00 am - 4:00 pm Central, Monday - Friday

Customer feedback | How am I doing? Please contact my manager, HA_NGO@DELL.COM

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FROM THE ENGINEERING DOCUMENT: (SEE QUESTION 7)

Service & Support:

1. Can I request Dell to re-calibrate my monitor during the warranty period?

Calibration is done for only new monitors shipped from factory.

Each unit is factory-calibrated as part of the production process.

Dell will not be able to re-calibrate the monitor during warranty

Period as calibration is done only for new units.

2. Can I request Dell to provide another Color Calibration Factory Report in the event of the loss of or damage to the report?

Each Color Calibration Factory Report is unique to each Dell monitor and cannot be reprinted.

We would recommend that the customer takes care to retain the Color Calibration Factory Report if required.

3. Is there a specification for color accuracy? If so, how do I check if my monitor meets the specification?

Dell calibrates the U2410/U2711 according to the DeltaE(1931) standard using equipment that can accurately measure high color gamut panels.

4. Will Dell guarantee all replacement units are also color calibrated?

The color calibration is only done for new units shipped from factory; thus, replacement units will not be color-calibrated.

5. In the event of warranty exchange, will the replacement unit come with a similar Color Calibration report?

Dell does not do the color calibration on the replacement units, as such, there will not be a Color Calibration Factory Report or similar attached to replacement units.

In cases where a brand new unit from factory needs to be shipped as a replacement unit, a Color Calibrated Factory Report will be shipped with it.

6. Why does Dell only provide the Color Calibration Factory Report for new factory units of U2410/U2711?

The color calibration is done at factory to ensure color is accurate for each unit of U2410/U2711 when it reaches the customer.

7. Is it possible to revert to factory pre-tuned settings after I color calibrated my unit with my equipment?

The customer should not re-calibrate and save your result in sRGB and AdobeRGB preset modes. Once overwritten, it is not possible to revert back to factory pre-tuned setting. The customer is advised to use the "Custom Color" preset mode to do their own calibrations.

8. How do I use this Color Calibration Factory Report?

The Color Calibration Factory Report is provided for customer’s reference that Dell does color-calibration on the U2410/U2711 to ensure color accuracy and consistency for each unit of U2410/U2711 shipped.

9. My own measurements of sRGB, gamma or AdobeRGB are not meeting the values stated in the report. Why is this so and can I get an exchange?

One of the reasons could be the different type of color calibration equipment used. There are many types of color calibration equipment in the market.

Dell ensures Color Accuracy based on the Dell approved Color-Calibration equipment at Dell’s factory.

[Todd Shaner]

Question: "It would be excellent if I could use a calibrated “custom” present on the monitor for LR and CS5 and simply select one of the presets (sRGB or Adobe RGB) when I am not using LR and CS5. I am not running with any monitor profile and a generic PNP driver now and I am getting much better results than I expected. I would just un-select the profile when I did not want to use the calibrated “custom” preset."

Dell Response: "Based on the data engineering provided me in the document I sent that is correct( Yes)."

It is apparent your Dell contact, David Glickman is not an engineer, but merely "talking to engineers. I work in a very similar industry for a manufacturer of Intel embedded x86 products. Trust me when I tell you that things get lost in the "translation" process going back and forth between a customer service person (David Glickman) and the actual engineer who may be located in Taiwan with English not the primary language.

Question: "Is it possible to revert to factory pre-tuned settings after I color calibrated my unit with my equipment?"

Dell Response: "The customer should not re-calibrate and save your result in sRGB and Adobe RGB preset modes. Once overwritten, it is not possible to revert back to factory pre-tuned setting. The customer is advised to use the "Custom Color" preset mode to do their own calibrations."

I believe what the "engineers" told him is that you should not make changes to the display's Brightness, Contrast, and RGB Color controls, and then save them to the Adobe RGB or sRGB modes. Only use the 'Custom Color' preset mode for this purpose. As I have already mentioned I don't believe your Spyder calibrator can do anything with the custom monitor profile other than load it into Windows 'Profiles' folder and assign it to the display. There needs to be an "option" in the calibration software to allow this, which you would have to select manually before calibrating the display. I don't believe that is currently the case, with exception of some NEC Spectraview and EIZO monitors when using their supplied software.

SUGGESTION: Set your monitor to the 'Custom Color' preset and calibrate it normally. Make sure to 'Save' any changes to the display's Brightness, Contrast, and RGB color controls, etc. to the 'Custom Color' preset. It should look excellent in the Custom Color mode. Now how does it look in the Adobe RGB and sRGB modes? Probably NOT the same as before. Now go into Windows Color Management application and change the display's profile back to the Dell supplied profile you were using. I bet the Adobe RGB and sRGB modes look fine now.

Here's what is happening to your display's screen data:

Application (LR) Display Data > Sent internally via PCIe bus to Graphics Card LUT for correction using monitor profile > Externally transferred via DVI/HDMI/DisplayPort to Display LUT for correction using display's internal profile > Processed Image Data Displayed On-Screen

I may be totally wrong in thinking the 'Custom Color' preset mode doesn't load the calibration monitor profile into the Display's LUT, but I doubt it. The "Suggestion" above will clarify the situation, and cause NO harm to the display's Adobe RGB and sRGB factory calibrations.

[Todd Shaner]

Here's a link with information that pretty much corrborates everything I have said in this post about using and calibrating the Dell U2711:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1511987

WARNING: It is a very looooooooooong thread, with a lot of banter. You may want to read it from the bottom-up, unless you have about an hour or more to decipher and digest all the information posted.

It's also interesting that the "Standard" mode preset appears to provide a wider display gamut than the Adobe RGB factory calibrated mode. I'm not sure I can provide a definitive "best mode" to use, but clearly calibrating the monitor AND creating  a custom monitor profile will improve any mode you use.

Whatever mode used make sure that you can set the display's Luminace to 140cd/m2 or lower, with 120cd/m2 probably better. NEC recommends 140cd/m2 for some of their displays, but room lighting needs to be brighter for accurate print matching. Most hardware calibrators provide a diffuser that fits over the calibration puck for measuring ambient light. This allows measuring and adjusting ambient light levels using the manufacturer's calibration software.