P: Ability to sync Lightroom Classic keywords with the Lightroom Ecosystem

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Keywords do not sync correctly: When added on the mobile app (iOS), they do not appear in LR classic and not in LR Web (I deleted the new LR CC immediately, this version does not make sense to me).
Same problem into the other direction: Keywords from LR classic do not appear on the mobile app. 
Attention: At this stage the whole keywording within the iOS app should not be used!

[robgendreau]

Does not evolve? I disagree. Classic has had many changes and even new features recently, from the profile system changes to HDR panoramas to various little fixes and improvements.

[Antoine HLMN]

There are updates, but many people feel like it’s “just to keep people happy”, not real updates. And the vast majority of them are in ACR and can easily be “recycled” in classic.

HDR Panos is great, but is not really new, just a process improvement.

Profiles is... ok... a way to apply presets before touching sliders...

[Califdan2]

.... And, profiles are really part of ACR as well.

[Antoine HLMN]

Bottom line, I feel like they are keeping classic alive until CC cloud is mature enough to switch classic down. I don’t see any reason for them to keep developing 2 versions of LR forever.
That day will be without me 🙂

[olivier_gx]

We need to put things in perspective. Evolution (?) is very marginal.
LR classic costs a whole 144€/year ti use a software we already own and add some HDR pano (great) and profiles. does it  worth this price to pay???
As usual we will ear from defendant : for this price you have PS (who cares if you don't use it) and CC.  But CC is far from usable (fast but weak or limited or marketed limitation).
Furthermore Mac and iOS version are far from aligned and for example does not synchronise signature

[olivier_gx]

Sad keyword (from sensei)not accessible or automatically visible (like google photo for example). But I can understand. Everybody use sensei to add keyword and finally remove, making no more money earn for Adobe. 
I wonder if keyword can be recorded in file or xmp side file or if it is only in the data base of CC (because of no sync with classic etc limitation.. marketing... segmentation)

[Antoine HLMN]

Exactly!

[brianw3529193]

This is insane (and you’d be just as angry as I am if you had to deal with Adobe’s HORRIBLE customer service for the past 48 hours).

Why can I not, after loving and using Adobe products to support my photography workflows for more than two decades, have the needed functionality from Lightroom Classic and the ability to sync keywords back and forth between my Mac and iPad?

This needs to be rectified now. Like NOW, now.

[Antoine HLMN]

Brian, I’m as mad as you are, but you’re hurting yourself being mad. Adobe has let down Classic. They’ve given the bare minimum (although I’d say keywords would be part of that minimum) in terms of sync capabilities (and maybe also in terms of improvements).

For me, they keep Classic alive as long as Cloud is in a public/beta phase, but I expect Classic to die (being less and less updated) little by little until they can push everyone to Cloud.
I would advise to keep an eye on other DAMs for when switching will be the only option. (Yes adobe, I think many people stay on LR because we are lazy and used to our workflow).

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I'll ask this question here as well.

Workflow Question -  on syncing metadata. I am a new Lightroom user. Through lots of trial and error, I realized I needed BOTH Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic which I now have. As many have discussed, and I have learned through painful experiences, both versions don't always play nicely with one another and are a bit of a disaster.   

For those using both Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic, can you share the most effective workflow that you use?

Here is what I have figured out so far. 
1 - Download new photos to Lightroom CC ( I heard in a training, that if you upload to Lightroom Classic they will not sync with Lightroom CC).
2 - In Lightroom CC - rate all photos with stars and checkmarks, etc.
3 - In Lightroom CC - Add Keywords (After doing this in CC with 2,000 photos, and syncing with classic, I found out the keywords don't upload to Classic.) If I do this in Lightroom CC will the keywords be added to the metadata on the web? OR do keywords need to be done in Lightroom Classic, or do I have to do it in both places?
4 - Should I add the Title and Caption for my photos in Lightroom CC or in Lightroom Classic and why?
5 - Then Switch to Lightroom Classic and sync the photo's and then add the metadata, creator data, and location to all of my photos as this feature ISN'T available in CC and is only available in Lightroom Classic.
6 - Then add my watermark to all of my photos in Lightroom Classic, as this feature is also NOT AVAILABLE  in Lightroom CC.
7 - Image hardening? What do you use for additional protection of your photos?

From this point, what is the best way to get all of my images uploaded onto my website? 
Do I try and do it from Lightroom Classic OR Lightroom CC. 
Which keywords and metadata will the crawlers on google pick up when trying to index the images? 
Will it pick up the keywords in Lightroom CC OR Lightroom Classic?
Should I even bother putting keywords into Lightroom Classic? Does anyone know these questions?

Is there anything in my workflow you would suggest doing differently or add anything?
Has anyone on here used the Plug-ins suggested above to sync their keywords or other data? I think it is called the Photographers Toolbox?

Any other things you would suggest as a newer user to Lightroom? Did I forget anything?

Any insights you could provide would be greatly appreciated!

[Lewis Craik]

My advice is not to bother with Lightroom CC, it isn’t fit for use by serious photographers.

I do everything in Lightroom Classic and forego the syncing.

What platform is your website on? I use Portfolio, so have a collection for that. I also use WordPress and use their Lightroom plug in to export straight from Lightroom Classic - another thing you can’t do on CC. It is worth searching for your website platform plus Lightroom to see if anyone has already made a plug in.

[Jao vdL]

Same as Lewis if you are a pro and run a website do not bother with CC. CC is a fun addition to Classic at best to do some minor editing on a mobile device from the couch and to shoot raw on your phone and have them sync automatically to your desktop in Classic. It is not a full-fledged solution. It might turn into one in the far future but isn't near one yet. It is only near if you only live online and have only very minor online sharing needs. 

To answer 1 by 1:
1 - they told you wrong in your training. You can sync from Classic to CC. The only limitation is that it only syncs smart previews and not the full raw files. The smart previews are more than enough to edit and caption/title on your mobile device. Moreover, the advantage of this is that this allows you to selectively sync as in Classic you have to mark what you want to sync. CC cannot selectively sync. It always syncs everything. With the Classic syncing method, you can even after the fact upload the same raw files in CC and they will get automatically linked giving you the full raw online.

2 and 3 - stars sync back and forth to Classic as you found. Keywords don't. CC has a flat keyword hierarchy and Classic supports nested hierarchies (e.g. California -> San Francisco -> Bay Bridge). I prefer the nested variant to be able to distinguish Crater Lake Oregon from Crater Lake Colorado. That is not possible in CC. There is a way to sync keywords from Classic to CC if you have already fully keyworded in Classic before you set the image to sync with CC. Best advice -> don't bother keywording in CC.

4 - titles and captions sync so it doesn't matter where you do this.

5 - This is exactly why you should always import in Classic as it can be setup to automatically add all your identifying metadata to all your images on import with a metadata preset. An essential feature not available in CC.

6 - It is possible to export simple watermarks on images from CC, but only from the mobile version. Indeed watermarking is full fledged on Classic and virtually non-existent in CC.

7 - Make sure you have embedded metadata with your copyright and use watermarks on exported images is basically the only thing you can do. These are both possible on Classic and not possible or very hard in CC.

website: Don't bother with CC. it is only useful for using with the lightroom web stuff which is easy but not scalable and not useful for anybody doing pro work. If you do anything else for web services (smug mug, zenfolio, etc.) you are lightyears better off with Classic and using publish services. It is possible to make it work but not without jumping through many hoops.

The bottom line is that CC is fun and OK as a companion to Classic to do some light edits on a tablet or to ingest images on the road that then automatically sync down to your main catalog. It is actually quite great for this. Keywording is not well done so don't bother trying to do that in CC. I would advice anybody wanting to do more than share one or two images online to use Classic as their main platform. CC is just still extremely far from being a realistic solution for even moderate photographic needs. Editing images is great and full-fledged. It's great that it syncs everywhere but just misses basically every other feature.

[Todd Shaner]

Bravo! Over my 50 years in computer system development, marketing, and sales I've seen this happen numerous times! It's a hallmark shift from Engineering focused product development to a fully Marketing driven model.

The current Classic & CC product models target two different groups (experienced desktop and casual mobile users). In my opinion there's no way to satisfy both groups with the one CC product. By allowing the "compatibility gap" to widen between Classic and CC Adobe are burning the bridge to maintaining pro and serious user market share. It's a paradigm shift toward focus on easier to use "creativeproducts" with Ai and mobile focused GUI.

I understand Adobe's desire to capture the untapped mobile user market. However, throwing the baby out with the bathwater is totally unnecessary in my opinion. It's not too late for Adobe to "fix" this situation. I fact if Adobe had taken additional steps to maintain compatibility between the two products this wouldn't even be necessary. Unfortunately, Adobe has stated no new mobile features will be added to LR Classic so the direction is pretty clear!

[Califdan2]

If CC is ever to be taken seriously, it must be considered as being "in addition to" classic, rather than "in place of" Classic.  There is just too much missing from CC for Adobe to bridge the gap using the current CC architecture and design.  It's just not up to the task.  Therefore Adobe must assure that they work well together.  That means syncing all creditably data.  That may also mean implementing hierarchical keywording in CC as an option.   

There are some nice things about the CC version but there is so much missing that using it is like trying to play Mozart on a piano made by Mattel.

[Antoine HLMN]

Thank you, Todd!

[Antoine HLMN]

Rewriting Lightroom is (was?) not a bad idea: LR is painstakingly slow and could use a facelift. Unfortunately, CC is not up to the task, like you said.

... and not to forget the « whole cloud » philosophy which is matter for debate. (Spoiler alert: never will I leave my pictures ONLY into the cloud nor will I support a company making countless efforts in keeping my data captive).

[johnrellis]

As I described above, the Adobe Creative SDK inexplicably omits keywords from its APIs.  If it provided keywords (a very small amount of engineering), then plugins could easily sync keywords in both directions, even handling the common use-cases of hierarchical keywords. So add your vote to this feature request: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/creative-sdk-provide-access-to-lightroom-cc-k...

A couple years ago Adobe promised a shiny new CC Storage API that would provide access to all Creative Cloud "assets" using modern REST APIs.  Recently, they've said it's coming in 2019.  One can only hope that they don't omit keywords and other metadata from the API.   If they ever deliver a full-fledged API, then a third-party plugin could provide the full sync between Classic and CC that Adobe doesn't want to implement: keywords, smart collections, syncing originals rather than smart previews, more flexible deletion:
https://www.adobe.io/apis/creativecloud/ccstorageapi.html

[john beardsworth]

"Recently, they've said it's coming in 2019. "

Where have you seen that, John?

[johnrellis]

Here: https://www.adobe.io/apis/creativecloud/ccstorageapi.html

[Todd Shaner]

I suggest anyone interested should "sign up" at the above link John provided. They ask a few questions and then a closing message states you will be notified via email when it is launched. No actual launch date is given other than 2019.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

@Jao van de Lagemaat, thank you for the detailed breakdown,  it is so helpful! I really appreciate it, this helps clarify things so much!  Can you explain further your statement in #1 - " With the Classic syncing method, you can even after the fact upload the same raw files in CC and they will get automatically linked giving you the full raw online." If I want to back up all my photos online through Lightroom CC at full resolution, and I mainly use Lightroom Classic, what is the best way to do that?

@Lewis Craik thank you for your input and for the info on the plug-in for Lightroom all of these tips will make the process so much easier! Todd Shaner thank you as well.

[Jao vdL]

Jileen, there are two ways to do what you want:

1. First and fastest even though it is more steps is to import through Classic setting the new imports to sync. This will upload smart previews of the images to the cloud. If this is done, then open up Lightroom CC on your desktop and import the same images. Lightroom CC will sync the full raw images to the cloud and link them to the smart previews already there so you won't get duplication doing this.
2. Simplest but by far the slowest is to ONLY import the images in Lightroom CC. They will sync up to the cloud and then download to Lightroom Classic. The advantage of this method is that it is simple. The disadvantage is that it is really slow as you have to upload the images to the cloud first and then download them (that's all automatic of course but still will take a while even on fast connections) before you can start using them in Classic. That is why method 1 is best.

P.S. all this could have been avoided if Adobe would simply add full raw sync capability to Classic. I started a thread here years ago on that (see link below). Please plus it even though this boat has long sailed unfortunately: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-classic-should-be-able-to-sync-full...

[BartonGarrett256]

Calling it a bad choice is being polite.  I wanted to migrate a customer to CC, now they have no system. It would have let them share images across their offices in Europe, the US and Japan. But without keywords for their photographs, which are product and marketing images, it’s absolutely pointless, I’d have to build smartness into image names and that ain’t gonna happen.

What an idiotic decision. I assume they think AI is going to make keywords obsolete, they are obsessed with simplicity. 

Another bridge too far, more short attention span thinking.

I’ve got too look for another solution. Ugh.

[BartonGarrett256]

Adobe’s product naming is irritating at best.

Classic generally means soon to die. 

Lightroom CC, a product catalog without keywords, should be called Darkroom, as looking for images without keywords is like choosing colors or reading with the lights off.

What were they thinking? Who did they talk to?

[Jim Wilde]

BartonGarrett256  wrote

Calling it a bad choice is being polite.  I wanted to migrate a customer to CC, now they have no system. It would have let them share images across their offices in Europe, the US and Japan. But without keywords for their photographs, which are product and marketing images, it’s absolutely pointless, I’d have to build smartness into image names and that ain’t gonna happen.

What makes you think that Lightroom CC does not have keywords functionality? It most certainly does, albeit it doesn't support hierarchical keywords, and any keywords added in any of the Lightroom CC apps will sync to all the other Lightroom CC apps.

It's the syncing of keywords between LR Classic and Lightroom CC which isn't supported, although if migrating a Classic catalog to Lightroom CC all metadata will be transferred, including keywords and location data.