Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

[Preran]

Hi all,

For those of you that haven't received the email around the Adobe Muse EOL, see the FAQ Product Announcement that tries to answer some the common questions around the announcement including the reasons behind the decision.

Before we proceed with discussing alternatives, the Muse application will continue to open on your computer. You will be able to continue to edit existing or create new websites with the application. Adobe Muse will continue to be supported until May 20, 2019 and will deliver compatibility updates with the Mac and Windows OS or fix any bugs that might crop up when publishing Muse sites to the web. However, it is quite possible that web standards and browsers will continue to change after Adobe stops support for the application.

While there is no 1:1 replacement for Adobe Muse at this stage, the FAQ link above provides some alternatives. Also, Adobe is making our own investment in DIY website creation and welcomes all Muse customers to join our upcoming pre-release program for a new format that will be introduced this year as part of Adobe Spark. Build a beautiful website—in minutes | Adobe Spark

That being said, I would like to open up this discussion for discussing other solutions and migration paths. It would be ideal if we could focus our efforts on the topic at hand.

Thanks,

Preran

[Ussnorway]

mcguirebrannon  wrote

One thing I hated about MUSE was there was NEVER any other users here in Western Australia

Just realized you said Western Australia! Sydney's not so close — 44 hours via car...must explore all of Australia!

lol its more like 44 days if you want to explore any of it

[sstuart48]

@mcguirebrannon from Webflow has gone quiet despite not answering several questions that were posted to him by the community several hours ago. Which is a shame because he is letting Webflow fall behind in the conversation against Pineflow and Bloc

Those questions were:

Can you copy/paste a whole page?

Do images get renamed?

Do images get rendered for different BP sizes?

Some of my sites are 100+ pages, would I see a lag whilst project loads in dashboard?

1) Page Hierarchy

Muse didn't have this, everything was in the same directory as the index.html file on export.For SEO I used to manipulate the page hierarchy in Dreamweaver (as it automatically updates all of the internal links). Was a bit of a pain as I had to repeat this process everytime I updated the Muse file and exported. Do you have an inbuilt page hierarchy manager/sitemap manager to take care of this or will i need to follow the same process for exported Webflow projects?

2) Contact Form

I appreciate this is a bit of a can of worms as there are multiple email clients / hosting servers might manage email as well for some of us / DKIM / SPF validators / etc so there isn't one fixed solution here. BUT Muse on the whole - the PHP worked fine to send mail to the email client. I am no expert here - but my 'laymen' comment is - if Muse could make it work for export? Why can't Webflow match this? If not / it's not in the pipeline for DEV, do you have a clear-cut way for us to change the PHP from Webflow to make contact forms work on our own hosting servers - that applies for the majority of normal cases - which will be 3rd party email clients i.e. G Suite / MS Exchange / WebMail.

[Graham_Barr]

I'm sure he'll be back. It's only mid-morning in California, and he was on here only 12 hours ago zzzzzz.  Looking forward to his replies tho

[sstuart48]

He should be in overdrive atm - all the potential business he could scoop up from this forum. He'd get a massive bonus from Webflow .

PS Thanks @NancyOShea

[Graham_Barr]

I can now answer some of my own questions re Webflow, after a few hours playing and learning more.

Can you copy/paste a whole page? - Yes, there is a "duplicate this page feature"

Do images get renamed? - From what I can see nope, they stay as you named them

Do images get rendered for different BP sizes? - It doesn't look like it.

[sstuart48]

Just need the answer on Page Hierachy then. Can probably get this from their customer services. Let us all know if you find any other cool stuff with Webflow?

[Graham_Barr]

Other good Webflow stuff...

I accidentally deleted a few items on my test page. Found there is a vault of previously auto-saved versions.

My Muse homepage has 760 lines of code. My identical Webflow page (minus json script) has less than 180 lines.

Learning curve getting much easier and i can see my productivity dramatically increasing. 1. It's just so much faster to get the results you want. 2. Currently I spend too much time trying to firefight the Muse flaws.

Currently no option to copy elements from one project to another, although this feature looks imminent.

When googling for answers to Webflow questions, I've easily found the right answers.

Initially I was scepitcle about a web based program, but can see this has real advantages when away from office or if PC fails.

At the moment I'm simply duplicating a Muse project but I can see MANY fun features I've not even looked at yet.

[pxlgk]

Hi Graham_Barr,  Nelson from Webflow here

In response to your question about images being rendered for different breakpoints, yes. All inline images automatically get optimized  for different breakpoints.  For more information on this, please refer to this page:

Responsive Images | Webflow

Hope this helps

[SammiMars]

Hey Graham_Barr  I'm pretty sure that the images WILL render at the various sizes required for differing viewports on WEBFLOW.  I watched a tutorial that included that info somewhere.  FOUND IT - Watching hundreds in the archives too which are great!

The dos and don'ts of image resolution - Web design tutorial - YouTube

Unless it's a background image which you would like slightly larger anyway - then the other images IN LINE IMAGES held within containers or div blocks will auto size depending on breakpoints.

Holy crap - I actually sounded like I know a bit more web development speak than I did as a MUSE USER.... hahahahah!

I've been non stop watching the awesome training videos over at WEBFLOW and it's looking pretty cool.

Still can't quite believe that I'll have to pay ANOTHER subscription though all the while continuing my CC subscription (which just increased) because I am a graphic designer and all my brand/print/marketing work outside web still relies on AI and ID and PS.  DAMN.  It is going to add up so need to get more new WEBFLOW clients to afford it all.

Hope this helps.

[Nancy OShea]

2) Contact forms -

a) Ask your hosting provider which form-to-email processing scripts your plan supports.  Many hosts have scripts already installed on their servers which you can activate from your Plesk or c-Panel.

b) If your hosting plan doesn't support form processing scripts, you can use 3rd party services like Wufoo.com. Online Form Builder with Cloud Storage Database | Wufoo

DIY

c) For serrvers that support  PHP Mail() ,  I have a 3 part tutorial on how to build your own secure contact form and script below.

Alt-Web Design & Publishing: Responsive Contact Form (Part 1)

d)  For servers that require PHP with SMTP authentication,  use the phpMailer library from GitHub.

GitHub - PHPMailer/PHPMailer: The classic email sending library for PHP 

Nancy

[mcguirebrannon]

@mcguirebrannon from Webflow has gone quiet despite not answering several questions that were posted to him by the community several hours ago.

I'm sure he'll be back. It's only mid-morning in California, and he was on here only 12 hours ago zzzzzz.  Looking forward to his replies tho

Not going anywhere! Take a look at the answers posted and feel free to reach out with more.

[kato6000]

Im in two Muse Facebook groups and they have convinced me to look into Webflow or the blocapp.

[BUSKIRKS.com]

Links would be great ! It is 2018!

[peterm47582768]

I'm still not sure of Adobe's position regarding the subscription payment when support ends next year. Will they expect payment to even though there is no support

[sstuart48]

Preran, it's Friday...

Have the 'decision-makers' emerged from their ivory towers with something concrete to win us back or has our business together concluded?

You have until 6pm GMT time to get us something concrete from them or I am taking my team to Webflow with the 5x website projects they are currently waiting to start working on.

[carl bach]

Ok, so some people have said you should have learnt to code (I can to some degree, as it happens) they have a point but that’s not why people are so annoyed.

It’s the fact that Adobe announced “here it is, websites without coding“, “ now you can concentrate on designing not coding”, “why let coding get in the way of creativity “ “it’s the new god of web design software”, ok these are not direct quotes but they were all implied.

They gave use training and support from people they call evangelists implying that we should follow them and have faith, go out and spread the word, tell your clients, use our hosting system, it’s the future, you can trust us, stake your reputation on Adobe, we’re leading the way.

Then they, turn round and say, oh bye the way we know you’ve told clients that this is the future, we’ll be ok, we’ll be able to develop your site for years to come Adobe are a trustworthy company “Muse” is the new code free god of websites.

It went like this:

Yes Mr/Mrs client the benefits are numerous:

YOUR SITE WON’T LOOK LIKE OTHER STANDARD TEMPLATED SITES.

IT’S QUICKER TO DESIGN IN MUSE.

IT’LL BE AROUND FOR YEARS, IT IS ADOBE AFTER ALL.

YES THERE IS A CONTENT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM BUILT IN.

THEY EVEN HAVE A USER FRIENDLY HOSTING SYSTEM.

TRUST ME, TRUST ADOBE, HAVE FAITH, THE EVANGELIST TOLD ME IT IS THE FUTURE.

Hi Mr/Mrs client

You know all that stuff about trust me follow the evangelist.

Well, sorry but we’ve just been sacrificed on the alter of Profit.

Yes, stopped it all, yes I know how stupid I look and how you’re faith in my jugemt has taken a massive hit.

Should have seen it coming when they started using word like evangelist really.

We live and learn.

Or do we, remember Quark express then how they started to over charge and abuse their customers trust and give bad support, then came along InDesign and Adobe everything subscribe monthly we’ll keep everything up to date and blah blah blah....

Have faith, believe in use. We’ve got evangelists, become a Desciple....

We‘ll, I did and now I and my client feel let down.

I will have to do days and days of free work recreating site that I’ve produced in a quick and good bit of software that I pay for monthly and wasn’t ever sold to me as a short term trial.

It’s really made me look and feel good, it hasn’t done my reputation any harm or cost me time and money.

I’ve supported you, how about supporting me?

[sstuart48]

So true carl bach,

It's such an incredible irony that Adobe is ploughing so much resource into data/analytics software to help businesses understand and serve their clients.

And yet the architects of this data/analytics software thought it was sufficient to throw good ole Preran at us at first to sell Spark to us to shut us up, and when this didn't work - threw some aloof ACP's at us - trying to spin this as it being our fault for not learning code! Now today I see more ACP's piling in - each more indifferent and uninvested in our plight than the last. It's like an episode of Fawlty Towers or Curb Your Enthusiasm - just getting worse and more cringy and comical as it progresses.

I'm sure once this saga is over, this will be up there with some of the classic PR f*** ups of all time.

Adobe, you should go back and look at the Experience Cloud. Clearly it is 'broken'

[knibbelknabbelknuistje]

Steve Jobs did see it. He killed Flash as an outdated and securitywise even dangerous app by advertising HTML5 and be independent from Adobe! At that time it took the CEO of Adobe quite some time to react on this. Did they feel the same way as we do now? I hope so! But in the end they just let Flash go instead of making it better again. Adobe adapted by not caring about there customer base and turned there back.

The future for Adobe is (if there is one) according to Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen at Adobe MAX 2017 Adobe Experience Cloud:

'Think of Adobe’s Experience Cloud business as a comprehensive collection of marketing and advertising tools that help companies store, analyze, and effectively use data to interact with customers in different ways.'

Yeah! Since Adobe can't interact with there own customers normally they help other companies to interact with there customers by the use of 'data'! Where does this 'data' comes from? Right: customers!

AND

Does Adobe know about 'customers' and do they have a track record in working with 'data'?

NO!!!

So, here's the future of Adobe!

[Ris11]

@carl bach

It is sad, but the future of Adobe seems to be data, not design.

With Experience Cloud they offer this analytics software and of course they use it themselves, I guess.

In the video on

Adobe Analytics – now part of Adobe Analytics Cloud

they say:

"Todays marketing geniuses are completely data driven" and

"With Adobe Analytics, you don't just know your customers. You can almost read their minds."

I wonder if Adobe Analytics also predicted the customer frustration caused by the decision to stop Muse and the implications this may have?

And probably data might have shown that Muse might not have been used as much as expected by Adobe, and that other of their products have a better return of investment, but I wonder whether their analytics tools recognised and took into account the strategic value that Muse had as part of the CC suite?

But about this new Spark thing, that apparently will not be a standalone application but run in the browser: I would hesitate to use an online visual web editor by a data driven company like Google or by Facebook, and I do not like the idea of an online editor by Adobe, anymore. Will they analyse every click we do and than kill the functions that are not used that much?

Does not sound good for me.

I want an Adobe that has a real vision beside its own financial growth and that cares about designers.

I am really disappointed by the Adobe of today

[Peter Villevoye]

Some extra remarks on the "shifting of Adobe" (as I read in another post) towards more data-driven media. That's indeed a very good observation. In fact, a large chunk of Adobe's revenues (I think it is at least a quarter or a third) are from their "Experience Cloud" tools and services. A whole set of data analyses and marketing tools, of which most designers have never heard of and never will or need to. But Adobe has a a very clear mission: media worth creating are media worth marketing. Of course, not everything a designer creates has to live up to that mantra, but you can't blame Adobe for at least wanting to offer creative tools which will let companies and their agencies to embark on this mission.

So very gradually, all tools and file formats are moving to an online and metered platform. Files which can't be tracked, are out. Tools that don't work well with the cloud, need to change or declared legacy. Look at recent signs: ePubs are silently ignored (Adobe has stalled the development of the reader), Publish Online is the road to go. Acrobat DC constantly begs you to store PDFs in the cloud. Lightroom CC relies heavily on the cloud. Adobe mobile apps are abundant, and all cloud-based.

So Muse was just another renegade tool, too liberal, unhinged, undetectable to the Adobe radar...

Final note: guess who's helping Adobe to develop and facilitate all these nifty data and cloud services ?

Adobe Marketing Cloud and Microsoft partnership

[karlkramer]

My trust in your products is severely damaged. We - the users- made you big. You are so stupid I could puke.

[karlkramer]

ADBE value of this piece of technology stock is down 25% after the decision to drop MUSE. In my eyes. Also the value of the whole suite of applications in CC is down that much. People in the company responsible for a decision like this MUST be fired. The do not understand theire own market. Who do you think is telling the young kids to work with Photoshop rather than using Gimp. Who do you think is telling them to take the Photography plan of Adobe CC rather than using cracked older versions of the software.

Right your expierienced older customers that had spent 1000 s of Dollars for previous versions of your software. Right this is the people that you are spitting right in the face now.

Guess what will happen?

[JayneNBunting]

I too am gutted by the announcement from Adobe about the imminent end of Muse. I’m a self employed Ceramic Artist with a little bit of know how when it comes to using the Adobe Creative Cloud Software. I love Muse. It has allowed me to build a website without having to learn Code and get exactly what I want for a price I can afford. The fact I currently have 5 Hosted Business Catalyst websites included in my CC subscription fee is worth a fortune to me, It means I’ve been able to build and host a website for Charity such as my Local Village Hall as well as help out friends, who like me have little income and need a website to showcase and sell their work. I have just started my Own business, The Studio At Clapham, offering Pottery Workshops and was about to build a new website to promote it. I have approached a number of Companies who would build a site for me but they charge from £250 - £500 just for a basic site and then a further £30 per month for hosting. I don’t have that kind of money    I’ve taken a look at ‘replacement’ software suggested by Adobe.  Spark - looks good for quick campaigns but doesn’t appear to have the versatility that Muse offers, I.e the ability to click on a link and be able to book a workshop or to be able to build a whole multi-page website using it. Maybe I’ve missed something and someone out there can tell me different? But I’m assuming Spark can only be linked through embedding code to an existing site be it a website or social media page. Adobe Portfolio, great if I want to showcase my work though this appears to be more geared toward 2d designers, graphic artists, photographers and illustrators. Maybe here too I’ve missed something??? Also can I create a Portfoilio Page for someone else that they can upload to their own hosted site?  And as for this Adobe XD  - I think it’s way, way beyond anything I am ever likely to need. Fine for a web designer working with a team of coders but no good for a ‘gotta do it all myself ‘cos I can’t afford an expert to do it for me’ kinda gal..... and of course my other option is to build my website from a provider such as 1&1,Go Daddy, etc paying for and using the template tools that they provide. I’ve tried this in the past (pre-muse 2013) and became qickly frustrated by the lack of flexibility in the templates..... Perhaps what they now offer is far superior to what it was? which then leads me on to thinking that if a Company such as 1&1 are giving all the tools I need why am I paying for Adobe Creative Cloud?  I’ve invested a lot of time and effort developing my websites in Muse, Right now ”Gutted” doesn’t really cover the sense of loss I am feeling. Like Dandybox, I would welcome your thoughts on WYSIWYG solutions to my dilemma.

[Red Point]

@Kai: Here is the link to Muse Facebook page. Adobe Muse - Software - 1,576 Photos | Facebook​ . The sentiment there is not much different from here...

[hunterscotty]

Preran,

The topic at hand is how Adobe has shafted us and left us with no pathways.

Either Adobe reverse their decision or they can get stuffed. Many of us will cancel our increasingly overpriced subscriptions to CC.