Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

[Preran]

Hi all,

For those of you that haven't received the email around the Adobe Muse EOL, see the FAQ Product Announcement that tries to answer some the common questions around the announcement including the reasons behind the decision.

Before we proceed with discussing alternatives, the Muse application will continue to open on your computer. You will be able to continue to edit existing or create new websites with the application. Adobe Muse will continue to be supported until May 20, 2019 and will deliver compatibility updates with the Mac and Windows OS or fix any bugs that might crop up when publishing Muse sites to the web. However, it is quite possible that web standards and browsers will continue to change after Adobe stops support for the application.

While there is no 1:1 replacement for Adobe Muse at this stage, the FAQ link above provides some alternatives. Also, Adobe is making our own investment in DIY website creation and welcomes all Muse customers to join our upcoming pre-release program for a new format that will be introduced this year as part of Adobe Spark. Build a beautiful website—in minutes | Adobe Spark

That being said, I would like to open up this discussion for discussing other solutions and migration paths. It would be ideal if we could focus our efforts on the topic at hand.

Thanks,

Preran

[Marco Romano]

Ok, we understand that the reason for Muse killing is about economic sustainability of the project. Let's go back a bit: once adobe sold its softwares in boxed versions; each of us chose the one that most interested our business and I'm almost sure that few needed the old "Master Collection"; passing to the deceptive policy of subscriptions, adobe released all the software to everyone and above all they continue to develop always new tools (which we still testing) and then kill them after a while because they are not profitable…

Now, in my desk I count exactly 33 apps part of CC… then there are all those for mobile, but how many actually use all these apps?

Well, It's always a good idea to develop new tools, but would not be better to curb this nonsense bulimia and focus on a few softwares that really work well?

Would not it be better to field a clear and coherent idea of ​​the direction you want to take us?

would not be better to find some software to focus on and pursue on that road, without wasting energy and money unnecessarily on projects that are then abandoned because no more sustainable?

Someone, however, in the meantime will have used them! And what do you say to these people: we're sorry but we've changed idea? Too comfortable and too arrogant, dear gentlemen!

How many times will it happen again in the future?

I honestly don't trust anymore in your new apps released because they could die from one day to another, and in the meantime I spent money and time to learn them... who benefits all this in the end? It seems so much to me that you go by trial

You magnified the NO CODE REQUIRED solution with Muse, which was actually an excellent idea, but then you have to continue with the development. You say that the tendency is to go towards DIY directions, however, how can you say that there'll be no market for Muse solution?

A lot of customers can't spend thousands and thousands of euros to develope a site and at the same time are not happy to have a site made with Wix solutions, so they ask their designers to make a site: these customers in any case will never make the site by themselves using Wix and will continue not to afford an excessive cost for a website, so in the end everyone has their own target

Above all you should keep on stay on the side of the designers, thanks to which your company has made a fortune in all these years, don't forget that DIY users often don't buy your software but at most they crack them while most designers spend money for legal solutions. On the other hand, this has often been your habit: winking to crackers just to sell one more subscription.

As far as I'm concerned, I've decided that I will discharge CC gradually: I can't afford to leave today without leaving my customers in the middle of the ocean alone as adobe can do with us apparently without any problem (we'll see it in long term…), but I'll don't forget your treatment. I'm tired of investing time and money to learn and test new software and then find myself with a handful of flies because someone up there decided to change the game...

do you want to go on like this? Go ahead, but without me.

[vincentp37110434]

This is very disappointing news, Im now seriously debating not renewing my annual sub that comes up in May.

I dont quite understand the Alternative, XD so i can spend time making a prototype and then what if I dont know how to code it? Muse you could build a WORKING prototype!!! Now I do actually know a bit of code and have built a few Wordpress sites and even hard code for another site, but muse made it so god dam easy (ok Im lazy) and I know most web designer will say it created bloated code, learning code is king, etc etc, that fact is for a simple fully customized style website you could not beat it, with adobe comp cc I could make a site in less than a minute that in code would take a hour+ to do.

Disappointing specially the way Adobe have communicated there decision and left no real alternative, at least we got kind of a years notice which is more than some companies give.

[BUSKIRKS.com]

#AdobeClassActionLawsuit

should have created a muse community open source trust...

we would have funded it as an open source community trust...

we would have funded it for 20 bucks a month.....in mass

its part of our work flow now.... as was PS and Ai in 1988

i seen it with freehand...... and other....

as a community we have a voice now...

kai

#AdobeClassActionLawsuit

[Skippermark]

For alternatives, has anyone tried Squarespace? It seems to be a mix of Wordpress and Muse with the ability to do some dragging  and dropping, plus there looks to be access to the code if needed. It looks good, but it's a little pricey.

[Illostraight]

@skippermark, I need in browsing edit for my clients, do you know if these have them? I don't even know if you can do that with wordpress. Anyone?

[annettecarla]

2020 allready? Got this message 10 minutes ago. It's a message Muse sends when you try to publish to Business Catalyst. This happens since the last update.

[Marco Romano]

One more thing:

not being able to do otherwise (let's not fool ourselves, adobe will never listen to us), it's time we designers start to behave in the same way adobe do with us, returning the treatment received silently every day.

An example: how many of you buy photos on adobe stock or fotolia? I often do it for work...

Well starting from today I'll never buy more photos on adobe stock and I'll buy them on other stocks.

It's called "The power of the remote control": if we do not like it, we'll change the channel.

Maybe they'll realize that have done a stupid thing!

Do you save money by closing a software? We do not spend anymore in your services...

Come on… let's start with little things.

Hi everybody

[Red Point]

@CKCBBAIN: Haha, I could'nt agree more. Adobe employees are seriously trying to tell us that Muse has failed financially?

They really think web designers can't do math. Wasn't the current CEO chosen for a purpose to outsource US labor to foreign markets where DEV is a lot cheaper? Dev was never so cost effective as it is today.

Mused worked and it still does!! But Muse doesn't fit money managements new business model: Muse was designed to help web designers cater to end-users, something that Adobe has obviously decided it will do itself from now on, using platforms like Spark and the like. Why cater to web designers, if Adobe can cater directly to end users. Why the in-betweeners? That is where Adobe really did the math, figuring out how much more money could be earned that way. Only problem, what to do with Muse and the WebDevs who paid subscription fees and made us into who we are now? Lets face it, axing down Muse is a direct attack on web developers' business model. But as Terry nicely puts it, we should get over it, that's just the way business works right?!?

But hold on, aren't there serious ethical implications here? WE, yes WE have made Adobe successful in the past years with our hard earned subscription fees. Adobe has now turned our subscription fees against us!

"Hey all your web designers coding independently out there, listen to the awesome voices of our "Adobe Evangelists", follow us blindly and trust us, move away from code and independence. Join our ship (first give us your money so we can build it) we will then sail you out onto the ocean far away from shore and sink the ship with all of you on board!  And when the last of you creative web designer has sunken to the abyss, we will roll out our automated web solution and side step you and steal your business model from you. Too bad for you web design fools and idiots for swapping the tools you had for the ones we sold you on and are now taking away from you, one by one.

BTW, by definition MUSE is the Greek and Roman goddess who presides over the arts and sciences. By killing the app, Adobe is killing THE tool for creativity on the web. They are killing the goodness of web arts, for the sake of serving automated unison porridge directly to OUR clients.

Some more words on business practices: Is the above model the business Terry was referring too? Is that how Adobe views how business is done? In the world I live in, we call these kind of behaviors sinister, cold blooded, hideous; not business as usual but malevolent business practice! That's what we call it. The only thing that tops it of is assuming we are too stupid not to know what is really happening here!

Oh and by the way, thank you Adobe for taking one year to sink the ship. That way I have enough time to swim 6.000 miles back to the shoreline.

If any one at Adobe has guts left in them, take our pleas and take them directly to your CEO. He can still make this right!

[greenskin]

JayneNBunting - totally feel for you which I don't think in the slightest Adobe does! Something you might want to look at is Blocs which is a desktop application that runs on macOS. It isn't a free-canvas framework like Muse but it is a one-off payment app that can back-end onto 4 different CMS platforms, export the entire website onto your own hosting platform. Take a look and see what you think...

[JayneNBunting]

Thank you so much. I’m going to take a good look at Bloc and I see Webflow gets a lot of mentions too. It’s reassuring to see that both provide training videos that I  can work my way through and evaluate if I am likely to be able to use the software being a total non-techie numpty. I was literally just about to start building my new site using Muse but I’ll try and take a positive view that at least I hadn’t just finished it! Whilst I feel gutted because of the sheer amount of time this is going to take me to learn a new programme, especially as the website is a necessary ‘evil’ at such a critical time for starting my new business, I really feel for the designers out there where Adobe Muse is their business. One person mentioned they had developed 60 + client sites using it. I certainly would not like to be in those shoes I feel devastated for them too.

[GARRogers]

@JayneNBunting

Hi Jayne, as you continue looking, will you let me know what you decide?

Seems like your description of yourself could fit me too, all this computer stuff. I used Muse since Day One and loved it, it was perfect for my needs, quick, easy and allowed me to get on with the designing and writing my patterns to keep my business going.

[JayneNBunting]

I most certainly will. I’ve had a quick look at Webflow and Bloc but quite frankly the references to html etc scared me! each have free tutorials so I’m going to watch them in the hope of enlightenment ! I followed a link posted on this forum to a communication in Muse Themes where there is talk of launching ‘Without Code’. If the software does what it claims to d, it sounds like it could well be my best option so I’m going to hang fire and wait until it’s launched and I can compare. . I’ll let you know what I decide.

[JackD3]

I switched from Dreamweaver to Muse as it offered a better way to create a website and use the connectivity with Adobe family and the shared libraries. I could use a web-based designer program, but the features that allowed me to reach back and forth in the Adobe family,  made Muse the perfect answer for our two small businesses. By stopping Muse with no foreseeable way to move the content and creative parts of the existing website into something compatible is unforgivable.

Where do I send the bill for the time and effort it will take to recreate yet another website with someone else? I have been a CC member since its inception and had the Creative Suite long before that. I have seen many changes, but this is one that is really hard to swallow as Muse offered the ability to create a website that was not only mobile friendly but did many other things without the user having to know a lot of code.

Sure I could use some other form of a website creator with templates, but where is the originality?

Hopefully, Adobe will pull their head out of their butt and take a look at all of the unhappy customers they are creating. Muse is just one portion of the Adobe family, but it is integrated with its brothers and sisters which makes it much more powerful than they think.

Hopefully, they will reconsider as I will be weighing my options of staying with Adobe or going another way as I have discovered that there are other great new options that are not Adobe products. 

[nmozone]

Tell your bosses........F.U.   Thank you sir

[Nancy OShea]

This is not the first time Adobe  have retired products and it certainly won't be the last.  Think back to  PageMill,  GoLive, Fireworks, Director, Encore, Contribute, LiveCycle, Edge, Course Builder, e-Learning suite....  all gone now.   As industries & technologies change, so too must the software we use. 

Dreamweaver remains an excellent tool for site management  and code editing (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, PHP, XML, JSON, etc....)   If you can write your own code,   you will never be a slave to your software.   But non-coders will always have trouble when the software they rely on stops being developed.  

Treat this as an opportunity to improve your skills and knowledge about coding.  If you don't, your competitors will.

[Terri_Stevens]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Nancy+OShea  wrote

This is not the first time Adobe  have retired products and it certainly won't be the last.  Think back to  PageMill,  GoLive, Fireworks, Director, Encore, Contribute, LiveCycle, Edge, Course Builder, e-Learning suite....  all gone now.   As industries & technologies change, so too must the software we use. 

Dreamweaver remains an excellent tool for site management  and code editing (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, PHP, XML, JSON, etc....)   If you can write your own code,   you will never be a slave to your software.   But non-coders will always have trouble when the software they rely on stops being developed.  

Treat this as an opportunity to improve your skills and knowledge about coding.  If you don't, your competitors will.

Your so right Nancy. This should be seen as an opportunity to get into coding and then you are not a hostage to fortune. I use Dreamweaver, but  also a free version of Visual Studio that is just great and with code hinting it's not that difficult to learn Asp.Net-it even has a visual interface albeit not anywhere as good as Muse, but the code is far cleaner . If you can code your charge out fee is much higher than if you just use a drag and drop type environment and frankly it does feel more of a personalised website you get in the end. 

[Nancy OShea]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Terri+Stevens  wrote

I use Dreamweaver, but  also a free version of Visual Studio that is just great and with code hinting it's not that difficult to learn Asp.Net-it even has a visual interface albeit not anywhere as good as Muse, but the code is far cleaner .

MS Visual Studio isn't my cup of tea mainly beacuse I use Linux servers and not Windows IIs.  If I were an ASP.net or C# coder, then yes, VS is something to look at for sure.   

There are many other free and open source coding editors, too.   Brackerts, Subline, Atom,  Ecclipse, NetBeans...    If you're like me, you probably have serveral IDES because no one tool does everything  perfectly.

[Kfbeau]

Hell no am I going to "get into coding", I'm 60 and run a small business and have relied on GoLive and Muse for the last 18 years to create and maintain my company's website. Who do you thing Muse was designed for? Answer: not a 20 something but the rest of us who don't envision our lives spent staring at a screen of html code. Adobe has screwed us again [profanity removed by moderator].

[Red Point]

Where was your advise when Muse came out when Adobe's Evangelist praised the non-code option? Now Adobe praises the code option?!?! What will it be next? This whole thing is a bit schizophrenic!

The issue for us developers is not coding. I always have been and always will be coding. The issues are the many websites I have created within Muse, that now need to be migrated to other CMS platforms so that my clients can continue to make changes to their sites. THAT IS THE ISSUE. The issue is not finding a replacement for future web projects. Maybe you should take your time and read all the posts to understand the problem we are facing before making a half baked comments.

We are talking about the cost of migrating existing websites. You don't seem to understand that I and many others have very complex websites that need to be changed and appended on a regular basis. Should I go back and hard code all my client websites into new CMS templates and then go to the CMS and populate text, images, addons aso? Is that what you are saying? You want to pay for that? Isn't it a little naiv to suggest experienced web designers to go learn coding!! I have been coding since 1980 btw.

We need Adobe to react to our migration issues ASAP. One solution would be to have the Muse team develop an export to PHP Wordpress template feature and make that code open source, so it can be developed further by the community. That could extend Muse's lifetime considerably and also allow us to migrate to Wordpress as a new CMS for existing clients. It's one possible solution.

I have just finished calculating the cost of creating new templates from existing client websites and populating the content thereafter. The best case scenario is about 30 to 50.000 USD. That is my current issue. Even if you know code, it takes time and hard work to migrate. My clients have payed for CMS already and in my eyes Adobe is responsible and liable for the problem now. Your suggestion to learn code is irritating, because it tells me you do not understand the real issue here. If you people from Adobe don't even comprehend the problem we are facing, how are we supposed to rely on you to come up with solutions?

The only one I trust can help us here is Danielle Beaumont, as she was on the developmemt team for Macromedia Dreamweaver and Muse and will understand our problems. Please bring here into the forums... This is not the time for sending PR people here, we need solutions to our migration problems.

[Nancy OShea]

I don't work for Adobe.  I'm a fellow product user like you except I didn't get warm & fuzzy with Muse.  I prefer to work with code editors not code generators. 

I have great sympathy for Muse, Flash and more specifically Business Catalyst users who arre having to scramble to find other  solutions before the EOL in 2020.  You have time to prepare your exist strategies.   In the meantime, you still have access to the tools you've been using.  

Nancy

[Red Point]

Short Update to my original post: I suggested that Adobe develop an export app so Muse sites could be exported to Wordpress CMS and our clients in turn could continue updating sites originally designed in Muse themselves (with lower migration effort & costs) .

Thanks to rogerphoto.com for pointing it out, there is a company that has done just that: A beautiful collection of widgets taking existing Muse sites to the next level by joining them to free & open-source CMS and e-commerce applications. Connectors to Wordpress and Woocommerce (supports Paypal and Stripe).

The basic MusexPress CMS is free! The more extended version with Woocommerce connection / integration is between 69 to 89 USD. Which I find totally OK, given that this will include all their widgets and themes as well. Also, they plan to develop the same connectors for Webflow, so migration will be pretty smooth. Who knows, maybe they will also integrate to Wappler. I think its a pretty good solution and I like the fact that they are a small-mid size company.

Here is the link Year Subscription - MuseGain.com - They have video tuts to explain how it works. If you've worked with muse-themes in the past, it will be second nature to you. I am still researching it but so far haven't found any major cons yet. Please let me know what you think.

I personally haven't decided which app to go forward with for future web projects, but I am seriously considering MusexPress for migrating past client projects that are using the In-Browser Editing feature, which Adobe will phase out soon. Need to discuss with my clients if they are willing to make the move. It should be an easy sell though: There might be a steeper learning curve, but it will also give clients extended control over content as it is more powerful. Maybe even suggest an upgrade price. Once I've completed migration, clients will be detached from Muse and Adobe for good I am sure!

Wordpress & WooCommerce could be a good choice: As it turns out open-source is a safer bet than paying software giants like Adobe yearly subscriptions.

BTW: I got screwed over before, but never by someone I paid. I did learn something in the past days though: never, never, never, never, never ever trust a company again, that is not run by an independent CEO, but is directed by investors confined exclusively to monetary considerations! In the long run, I couldn't care less about a software program, but I do care who I want to partner with. When a red line is crossed, partnerships deteriorate. Like in real life it may happen gradually. But it will happen and it will end up in a split!

Looking at innovative companies like Muse-Themes and Muse Gain, looking at the system of widget integration and the hard work the Muse team has put into developing this beautiful app, the many individuals that created commercial 3rd party templates (whose livelihood has become dependent on it) it is just such a shame to see it all be thrown away because of greed. An app like Muse is something other small development companies take a lifetime to develop & build, corporation like Adobe simply jug it out like its garbage. If we are honest to ourselves, it's not just Muse. Its to see systematic human dysfunction in action, which really leaves us in shock.

[Red Point]

Pinegrow really seems to be a very interesting alternative to Muse. It could also serve as an alternative to the CMS feature in Muse, as you can import HTML, add Word Press tags and export as template. Pinegrow exports the standard PHP WordPress files.

If anyone has the time to test importing a muse generated HTML file into Pinegrow and give it a try, let us know how it went...

While I am at it, I am also exploring alternatives to Photoshop, Illustrator, Premier and After Effects. Might as well go all the way...

[W_J_T]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Red+Point  wrote

Pinegrow really seems to be a very interesting alternative to Muse. It could also serve as an alternative to the CMS feature in Muse, as you can import HTML, add Word Press tags and export as template. Pinegrow exports the standard PHP WordPress files. If anyone has the time to test importing a muse generated HTML file into Pinegrow and give it a try, let us know how it went.

I am not nor have I ever been a Muse user, but have been curiously following the fallout of this recent announcement.

As a user of Pinegrow among other IDE's for editing source and development (Atom, VS Code, etc.,), I was curious how this workflow would work with Muse. So I downloaded a Muse site I found on a showcase site and used Pinegrow to open it as a "project". Please note that the Pro version is needed for opening projects ($99). It worked fine and the entire site structure is easily accessible, editable, etc., through Pinegrow's visual editor.

Download the trial, and try it with one of your own Muse sites:

https://pinegrow.com/

Overview Video: Introduction to Pinegrow 4 - YouTube

I don't know how Muse works having never used it. But if you can get the entire site source exported or download your lives sites, then you will be able to open the sites in Pinegrow Pro as a project. Of course as previously stated by others the ability to use Muse will remain for the foreseeable future, just without feature updates going forward. But if and when the time comes for a person to move on from Muse and have the ability to maintain or alter a Muse site, then Pinegrow is one of those viable options to do so.

It is a desktop program ( Mac / Win / Linux ) with Visual CSS tools much like Webflow, an HTML tree and drag and drop features for various things. It supports both Bootstrap and Foundation drag and drop building as well as plain HTML5. Pinegrow works with native files and is not locked into any framework or file format, so you can use existing sites (Muse included), templates you buy, etc., and edit and modify them visually in Pinegrow.

Obviously everyone is different, so review the various alternatives and find what tool or application may work best for each individuals requirements, skills and desires.

But as was mentioned previously by Nancy (Link 1 / Link 2), now is a good time to evaluate learning the basics of HTML / CSS and maybe even some JS. So you are not locked into an application or framework that may cease to exist like Muse. Pinegrow is an option to help you take those learning steps via a visual editor, and also allow you to work on your Muse sites source in the meantime or when the time comes in the future.

I hope that may help someone in some way. Sorry to all of you that are experiencing this turn of events with Muse, I can only imagine how devastating it must feel.

---

** I would also like to add that I am not affiliated with Pinegrow in anyway,

my above evaluation and comments comes solely as a user. **

---

[e.reed.rogers]

I'm going to add to the list of alternatives. This thread is so huge I don't remember if I already did this so excuse redundancy but it's better than the nundunancy supplied by Adobe.

(Free) Alternatives (?) with links.

Google Web Designer (??? I know right! ???) Another company you can't trust but any port in a storm I guess

Macaw seems to be EOL as well (merging with another company could bring promising results) but it's a free download so why not try it's offline

Mobirise interesting looking offline editor

And here's some kind of "10 best site builder" nonsense to thumb through.

I've downloaded but not tested them yet. Give them a shot and let us know.

Peace

[krayzee2k9]

Adobe Muse Alternatives - Google Sheets

Is the current list of Muse alternatives. It's free for anyone to edit so please add to the list