Adobe Muse EOL announcement - Alternatives to Adobe Muse?

[Preran]

Hi all,

For those of you that haven't received the email around the Adobe Muse EOL, see the FAQ Product Announcement that tries to answer some the common questions around the announcement including the reasons behind the decision.

Before we proceed with discussing alternatives, the Muse application will continue to open on your computer. You will be able to continue to edit existing or create new websites with the application. Adobe Muse will continue to be supported until May 20, 2019 and will deliver compatibility updates with the Mac and Windows OS or fix any bugs that might crop up when publishing Muse sites to the web. However, it is quite possible that web standards and browsers will continue to change after Adobe stops support for the application.

While there is no 1:1 replacement for Adobe Muse at this stage, the FAQ link above provides some alternatives. Also, Adobe is making our own investment in DIY website creation and welcomes all Muse customers to join our upcoming pre-release program for a new format that will be introduced this year as part of Adobe Spark. Build a beautiful website—in minutes | Adobe Spark

That being said, I would like to open up this discussion for discussing other solutions and migration paths. It would be ideal if we could focus our efforts on the topic at hand.

Thanks,

Preran

[Richard Humphreys]

Adobe created PostScript, and therefore had complete control of the targeted language, and could write software to that standard. HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, their standards, practices, frameworks, utilities, and libraries are always changing, and usually at a rate that is hard for any piece of abstracted software to keep up with, let alone a drag and drop visual editor.

Even Dreamweaver has a hard time keeping up. They have created libraries of code, only to dump them a couple versions later to choose another popular library in lieu of their own. They really don't have the power to create the trends in web development technology. It's hard enough to just pick which current one will still be in use long enough to warrant creating editor tools to support them.

[Duncan Wilcox]

Of course one questions whether all the constant change makes any difference in practice.

“I wonder if I have twenty years of experience making websites, or if it is really five years of experience, repeated four times. If you’ve been working in the technology industry a while, please tell me this sounds familiar to you.”

https://frankchimero.com/writing/everything-easy-is-hard-again/

[Guest]

Duncan

are you “the“ or a developer for Sparkle?

[Duncan Wilcox]

We are two full time and a few on and off consultants.

[W_J_T]

sstuart48  wrote

come to this forum and sell their wares. Webflow have.

Thanks for openly admitting that for all those Muse users who were not aware to this veiled sales and marketing tactic. They are blatantly here trying to sell and gain new customers.

[BenPleysier]

I am sorry if I have given the impression that Wappler is the best alternative, there is also https://pinegrow.com/ which seems to be a better solution than Webflow.

I know how hard it is to adjust to new circumstances, I have been through the same process due to products falling by the wayside. Adobe has been one of the worst offenders in this area. I just want you guys to make a wise decision before you find yourselves in hot water once again.

When choosing, make sure that you are not bound to that product, that you can port your code and your site independent of anybody or anything else.

Edit: Webflow fails on both accounts.

[Terri_Stevens]

That kind of attitude will not get you anywhere and will just encourage ACPs, like Ben, to avoid this forum. You are just looking for someone to strike out at , not being able to access Adobe people themselves. Lets make this clear ACPs don't need to get points to remain ACPs, they come here to try and help you with their knowledge and telling someone like Ben, who I don't know, to get lost when he has answered over 4,000 questions on these forums is unacceptable. The fact is many of you here rather naïvely put all your eggs in one basket not ever considering that Muse may not go on forever and that mistake has come back to bite you. You all have years to adjust your business models before Muse really becomes unusable and so you'll have to invest time and effort in learning something else.

It is not Adobe's fault that Wix and Squarespace etc have made creating basic webpages easy for consumers and small business owners alike, what you need to do is offer high value additional services that DIY site builders can't offer and although you won't like to hear it that will involve you developing new skills-all Webdesigners in my opinion should be able to code JavaScript for example, not to be able to do that is akin to a doctor not knowing how to use a stethoscope.

[sstuart48]

Terri, Terri, Terri...

1) I've championed Peter Villevoye from day 1 - he is an ACP

2) You compared Brexit to Adobe's decision to drop Muse

3) You said we should learn to code as the solution - that model doesn't suit all circumstances and / or users of Muse. I can read code fine thanks. But choose  to use Muse

Bye Terri, Muse experts only please

[Terri_Stevens]

sstuart48  wrote

Terri, Terri, Terri...

1) I've championed https://forums.adobe.com/people/Peter+Villevoye  from day 1 - he is an ACP

2) You compared Brexit to Adobe's decision to drop Muse

3) You said we should learn to code as the solution when our time is more profitably spent on other creative projects such as videography where I can charge £1k per day.

Bye Terri, Muse experts only please

Afraid I havn't followed Peter so cannot comment on the relevance of that statement.

As for BREXIT , I was just hinting petitions generally don't work.

Finally if you can earn £1K a day why are you bothering with web design where you can't earn £1K a day?

I use Muse, admittedly I'm better with Photoshop, Dreamweaver and Visual Studio, but that's the point I'm not dependent on just one piece of software and neither is anyone where I work-in fact we wouldn't employ 'one trick ponies' as it's suicidal if the plug gets pulled.

[sstuart48]

Small businesses in the UK like to work with one person they trust. So I'll take the business. I'll make hay whilst the sun shines.

Anyway, I am probably being a bit of a pratt. So sorry to both you and Ben.

[juchis2009]

This decision to drop MUSE is horrible, I've posted enough disgust all over the internet. Hoping for a change of heart, an april fools joke  or a new and better muse product announcement. I have also looked at all the other suggestions, Webflow, Spark, Blocs, W/O

All good choices and have attributes that are great, how ever they will all always lack the integration with other adobe products, by that I mean simple things like being able to use a .ai logo in muse instead og exporting it to .png or .jpeg etc etc etc.

HOW EVER afte I got through thinking, the first site I ever created in muse is still up and running and it works just fine, this site was created using the beta pre release program before muse was offered to the public. 6 1/2 YEARS AGO!

I DON'T Think we have too much to worry about existing site of clients having to migrate them over just yet, would not even worry about creating sites in muse right now, maybe web technology will evolve faster now in browsers etc but from my experience using muse since it started and before, I still have sites out there that are working fine. STOP THE PANIC.

Now what the real issue at hand is, is how ADOBE has handled this situation, dropping the product as they did "because of market trends" really those exact market trends are the one we fight against every day, we do not want to build site like those!! ADOBE read the explanation in wikipedia about what muse is to all of us!

Adobe Muse is a website builder that allows designers to create fixed, fluid, and adaptive websites without having to write any code.^[4] Muse generates static websites giving users the freedom to host their sites with any hosting provider. Users can add more advanced functionality such as blogging and eCommerce to their website with plugins created by third-party developers.

Adobe Muse themes are created inside Adobe Muse and shared as a .muse file. Themes do not require any configuration or setup to get running. Since Adobe Muse generates static HTML files, the files can be exported to the browser for testing without needing to connect to a server or webhost. Because of its static nature, however, themes cannot be applied to existing content and content cannot be imported into a theme. Since themes are created inside Adobe Muse, themes do not require knowledge of any code. Free starter designs are offered on Adobe Muse^[6]. Themes can be viewed via a built in 'Preview' option that allows users to preview their website in the application. Users can also temporarily host their website in Business Catalystfor free as part of the Creative Cloud subscription.

YOU HAVE LET YOUR CUSTOMERS DOWN, WHAT HAPPENED TO THE "THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT APPROACH"

So if we are saying we are fine with it, we keep paying for it and are generally quiet happy with it, WE ARE RIGHT, so KEEP THE DARN PROGRAM ALIVE AND KEEP US HAPPY, DOWN SIZE THE TEAM WORKING ON IT, GET RID OOF OTHER REAL USELESS PROGRAMS YOU HAVE. NO ONE WILL EVEN NOTICE IF THOSE ARE GONE ANYWAY. MUSE IS PART OF YOUR ELITE SET OF TOOLS SUCH AS PHOTOSHOP, ILLUSTRATOR and INDESIGN

With all that said, I will still create sites in adobe muse, wiill probably use the Muse Themes alternative of W/O Code and wait to see ehat the future holds. Will also choose an alternate like Weblof blocs or Sparkle and create a few site there just to learn an alternate in case need be.

[Ris11]

@juchis2009

I totally agree with you.

And even though I am angry of Adobe and what they did, I will continue to work with muse for some time. I think it could be a useful tool for several years to come. At the moment I do not see a viable alternative to Muse that would suit my needs. I hope that in the future there will be some.

I also think it has been a bad business decision by Adobe to end Muse. Maybe it was not financially attractive enough to carry on with it, but I think they did not recognize the strategic value it had for the Crelative Cloud. Not only for me Muse was the most important reason to become a CC subscriber.

[pziecina]

https://forums.adobe.com/people/Terri+Stevens  wrote

It is not Adobe's fault that Wix and Squarespace etc have made creating basic webpages easy for consumers and small business owners alike, what you need to do is offer high value additional services that DIY site builders can't offer and although you won't like to hear it that will involve you developing new skills-all Webdesigners in my opinion should be able to code JavaScript for example, not to be able to do that is akin to a doctor not knowing how to use a stethoscope.

The trouble is that over on the Dreamweaver forum a few of us have been saying exactly that about Dreamweaver users, and what Dreamweaver has to offer developers.

That said, I do agree with Ben. The web is changing rapidly and even layouts that many though impossible 5-6 years ago are easy.

BTW: I'm an ex ACP.

[pxlgk]

Hi there

Just some insights to the errors:

• IMG ALT tags can be added in the settings panel for each image.  Since there isn't one set, you'll see this error in your report. Here is how to fix that: Image 2018-03-30 at 9.30.11 AM.png
• duplicate IDs - Since this button was copy/pasted, the ID is also copied.  What I suggest is to just remove the IDs and use a custom attribute of title since that button is just a pre-styled anchor tag.  Here is what I mean: Screen Recording 2018-03-30 at 09.33 AM.gif 

Hope this helps

[pxlgk]

Question.  Can I IMPORT a zipped project back into Webflow?  Eg: Client wants a different website for the festive period. Could I save/zip the regular website for safe keeping, edit the webflow dashboard to be all Christmassy, and then import the 'regular' website back into webflow in the new year?

You cannot import projects back into Webflow. You can only export.  If you need to make changes, you would do so using the Webflow Designer tool, then export it out and re-upload to your server.  But, it's much easier and secure to use our hosting. Publishing only takes 2 clicks.

Also, some of the benefits hosting with us are:

• sites are backed up on secure Amazon Web Servers
• sites are served through the Fastly.com CDN (the same that The Guardian uses)
• you can use the Client Billing feature (to bill your clients for hosting and make a profit)
• you can use our CMS editor

Or can I clone/duplicate a project? I tried saving my file as a different name, but this simply over-writes the old name. I was hoping to see 2 projects in dashboard.

You can clone a project, but you can't overwrite it since each project is its own instance. Think of it this way.  Creating sites on Webflow is like creating full projects (HTML, CSS, JS and all the settings you need) instead of just creating a project file offline.

Let me know if this helps

By the way, if you have questions about Webflow, I invite you to join our livestream of our quarterly Community Q&A with our CEO:

[irrelevant link removed by Moderator]

[Graham_Barr]

Thanks pxlgk

I'm slightly confused by "You can clone a project, but you can't overwrite it ...."

So to clarify: If I have ProjectA, I can copy/duplicate this and name it ProjectB and have both projects saved on my Webflow dashboard?

How many projects can the dashboard account have?

Re hosting: I appreciate your hosting is easy to upload to, but I think its fair to assume most Muse users will want to continue with their own hosting arrangements.  I have 30+ Muse websites, to migrate all of those, along with the associated email accounts etc would be way too much work. We've already been stung with the Muse EOL announcement, so putting all our eggs in one basket is definitely something Muser's will be keen to avoid.

Overall, I'm impressed and think I will commit to Webflow.  The grid/block structure 'feels' so much more stable than Muse. I just know that elements are gonna stay just where I want them too. There are no surprise movements of elements when i have changed something close by, which has been a real issue with my Muse projects.

[pxlgk]

So to clarify: If I have ProjectA, I can copy/duplicate this and name it ProjectB and have both projects saved on my Webflow dashboard?

That is correct. 

How many projects can the dashboard account have?

• Starter (free) plan = 2 unhosted projects
• Lite = 10 unhosted projects
• Pro & Team = Unlimited projects

​An unhosted project is a project that does not have a hosting subscription added to it.  Once you add a hosting subscription to a project, that project becomes a hosted project and you open a slot for another unhosted project.

Hope this makes sense

Re hosting: I appreciate your hosting is easy to upload to, but I think its fair to assume most Muse users will want to continue with their own hosting arrangements.  I have 30+ Muse websites, to migrate all of those, along with the associated email accounts etc would be way too much work. We've already been stung with the Muse EOL announcement, so putting all our eggs in one basket is definitely something Muser's will be keen to avoid.

I totally understand.  That is why we keep things flexible and let you export your sites and host anywhere you want.

[rayek.elfin]

Graham_Barr  wrote

Overall, I'm impressed and think I will commit to Webflow.  The grid/block structure 'feels' so much more stable than Muse. I just know that elements are gonna stay just where I want them too. There are no surprise movements of elements when i have changed something close by, which has been a real issue with my Muse projects.

Before you commit entirely, don't forget that you'll be dependent on being online all the time while working, and that if Webflow's server goes down, you will not be able to work. And you will be renting the service, of course.

Compare that with alternatives that also work with a grid/column structure, and don't need the user to be online, desktop version, and a perpetual license option.

[Graham_Barr]

Hi rayek.elfin Thanks for the constructive comments. 

I understand the being online thing, it has taken my head a while to accept this is the way forward from my Frontpage and Webplus days.  That said, I found Muse hard to use offline because the Typekit fonts couldn't sync, meaning all my elements were the wrong size with Times Roman 12pt in all of them. So this is nothing new for Muse users.

Re "renting the service", again, nothing new for Muse users.

I know everyone will have different requirements, but for me, the flexibility of being able to work on any device anywhere in the world is a positive which outways the slim chance the internet or servers going down.

[Peter Villevoye]

Just a thought on a Thank God It's Friday Before Easter...

Sometimes I get the notion that all this coming and going of technologies, tools, services, and their incompatibilities, are necessary as a virtual law of digital nature, to let the web erode, to force old websites to die after a few years or a decade. Otherwise everything would be too simply converted, migrated, and revived, without wondering or worrying about the actual value of a website. If it's worth rebuilding, improving, keeping alive, investing in, then it's a valuable website.

[W_J_T]

W_J_T  wrote

@mcguirebrannon

How many other of your team members are posting here are as well, participating or masquerading in a veiled marketing campaign in this thread? Some conversations sure seem that way.

pxlgk  wrote

if you have questions about Webflow

Well thats definitely confirmed two Webflow based employees directly marketing in this thread.

[Graham_Barr]

Whats wrong with Webflow, Sparkle or whoever trying to help?  Muse is dead, there is no obvious competitor, so it makes sense for other platforms to try and get a piece of the action.  I'd rather them than Wix tout for business!!!

I know of 3 Webflow guys on here, Pixelgeek, Bbrannon and Nelson. I suspect they are in different time zones and trying to keep a presence 24/7.  It's a bit harsh to say they are direct marketing. They picked up on a few posts and tried to help/answer the questions. Fair play I'd say. How else are they or any other platform going to connect with known Muse users?

[W_J_T]

Graham_Barr  wrote

Whats wrong with ...

I know of 3 Webflow guys on here, Pixelgeek, Bbrannon and Nelson.

... they are direct marketing.

Regular forum users who have used or are aware of an app and make alternative suggestions are vastly different from actual employees such as them and others which are being sent in to try and secure customers as subscribers to their service and business with their posts.

Even they and yourself should be able to understand and see the difference of the conflict of interest, verse that of unbiased suggestions by regular forum members.

[GARRogers]

Don't you think it is good that people from these software apps are here to explain about them and answer questions?

I thought that was the purpose of this forum, to find an alternative.

I have learned a lot from the Q&A etc.

[Nancy OShea]

Graham_Barr  wrote

Whats wrong with Webflow, Sparkle or whoever trying to help? 

Nothing wrong at all.   This discussion is about alternatives.