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Why Some Mac Computers Seem to Under Perform

Community Expert ,
Jun 11, 2019 Jun 11, 2019

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This just released video from Linus is interesting.  I actually answered a forum thread recently, from a user who was complaining his Mac was under performing with Photoshop.  Not being familiar with their spec, I looked it up and suggested that the poster was probably getting performance commensurate to the low CPU clock base rate, but then scaled back my response when reading the apparently reasonable turbo clock speed.  It would seem that those specs are misleading, and that in real world situations, unachievable for more than very short periods. 

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Community Expert ,
Jun 11, 2019 Jun 11, 2019

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Kind of makes you think of all those posts from Mac users, complaining that PS is sluggish. Was it Abobe's fault or Mac's? After have several computers' graphic cards fail, to what I'm assuming was heat, I got a laptop with huge cooling fans. It's heavy and bulky, but it is still going strong. PS does make those fans kick on a lot, but when they do turn on, I'm glad I have them. You can really feel the heat being expelled.

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Contributor ,
Jun 11, 2019 Jun 11, 2019

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Doesn't explain why on a brand new maxed out iMac, 8 core, 3.6ghz i9 CPU with 64GB Ram, with only the base operating system installed and Photoshop CC, the brush tools still lag, lasso tool fails to draw and exhibits all the other problems reported daily on this forum.

You can post all the anti-Mac BS you want, and congratulations on your PC superiority, but it doesn't help us with fixing the problems that we are dealing with on a day to day basis with Photoshop's broken core tools.

The same iMac is absolutely blazing fast and responsive in ZBrush, Painter, Affinity Photo and Cinema4D FYI.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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...and the same Photoshop is blazing fast and responsive on both my Windows machines. The are no broken Photoshop tools here.

Seriously, what you describe is classic buggy video driver. The problem with Mac in this respect is that the video driver is integrated into the OS. You can't update it.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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To be fair, this kind of issue can happen with any pre-made system. Look at the number of off the shelf Windows laptops with dual GPUs (usually Intel and NVidia) which cause conflicts. The difficulty with Macs is that you cannot easily change drivers so once you have an issue you are stuck with it until Apple decide to update it.

Dave

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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Very true. I admit laptops don't really exist in my world. Apart from dual GPUs, the vendors usually fill them up with so much junkware and "assistants" of all sorts, that you can't even find the operating system anymore. That's what gives Windows a bad name.

My problem with Mac is exactly that. It's a closed package, much like the kid who was asked to draw a potato peeler. He drew a box and wrote "potatoes peeled here".

The safest bet is to build a Windows desktop machine yourself. I have ten or twelve under my belt by now, and they (and Windows) have all been bedrock solid.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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My approach also. I am due a new build soon but my current 6 year old system (albeit with a newer GPU and SSD) is still handling everything I throw at it including hefty 3D renders and 4K video in Premiere Pro.

Dave

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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It's amazing how many productive years you can get out of these things. My work machine, that I'm sitting in front of now, is getting close to seven years by now, and I still see absolutely no reason to replace it (I only need to say the word, I don't even have to pay for it). It's an i7-3820K, ordered in parts from the IT department and assembled right here on this desk.

At home I have a 7700K, NVMe and all, and quite frankly it's not all that much faster.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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davescm  wrote

My approach also. I am due a new build soon but my current 6 year old system (albeit with a newer GPU and SSD) is still handling everything I throw at it including hefty 3D renders and 4K video in Premiere Pro.

Dave

Dave, I didn't see a lot of difference in Photoshop going from a 3930K to i9-7900X, and I am pretty sure there was no difference at all upgrading from a GTX970 to RTX2070.  In other apps, it is a different story of course, and with your use of Blender and similar apps, you'll see a difference. Where I have seen a difference with Photoshop is in situations where the Scratch dish comes into play, because of the NVMe drives included in my rebuild.

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Contributor ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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@ - you're completely wrong about not being able to update Mac GPU drivers. Why are you spreading FUD on here? I have a Mac Pro tower with an Nvidia GTX1080ti for CUDA acceleration which uses Nvidia web drivers and a separate CUDA driver from Nvidia. They are nothing to do with the Mac OS install, they are downloaded and installed separately. And guess what, this machine also exhibits the exact same problems in Photoshop as all the other Macs in my studio - brush tool lag, unresponsive tools, etc etc etc.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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brush tool lag

Just out of curiosity: Do the affected Brushes employ smoothing?

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Contributor ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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Brush tool lag isn't affected by smoothing,

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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leds2097726  wrote

Doesn't explain why on a brand new maxed out iMac, 8 core, 3.6ghz i9 CPU with 64GB Ram, with only the base operating system installed and Photoshop CC, the brush tools still lag, lasso tool fails to draw and exhibits all the other problems reported daily on this forum.

I don't know how closely you follow this forum, but what has happened is that when Adobe address an issue with one version of OSX, the next OSX update breaks it again. 

Known issues - Running Photoshop CC on macOS 10.14 Mojave

Known issues - Running Photoshop CC on macOS 10.13 High Sierra

leds2097726  wrote

You can post all the anti-Mac BS you want, and congratulations on your PC superiority, but it doesn't help us with fixing the problems that we are dealing with on a day to day basis with Photoshop's broken core tools.

The regular posters to this forum have to try and address issues with Mac systems and Photoshop, and the answers are nearly always far from clear.  Linus has uncovered one of the contributing factors.  He didn't make it up.  He just reported fact.  So I shared that here with a view to maybe helping regular posters have a better understanding of what is going on. 

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Guest
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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Interesting video Trevor, my six year old PC with a few upgrades is still serving me well

Intel i7 3770k

32GB RAM

GTX 4GB 1050ti GPU

500GB SSD for OS

250GB SSD for Scratch Disk

2 * 4TB HD's

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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Hi Trevor,

I am not having the issues on my Mac that many are reporting. There is definitely a problem somewhere and pinpointing it is a good idea. Did you also read the specs on the Apple website? I found this:

https://www.apple.com/imac-pro/

"Packing all that performance into such a slim all-in-one design required a new approach to cooling the system. We redesigned the thermal architecture of iMac Pro with innovative dual blowers, a high-capacity heatsink, and extra venting. The result? Almost 75 percent more airflow and an 80 percent increase in system thermal capacity. Which lets iMac Pro handle 500 watts — 67 percent more power than the 27-inch iMac."

And I do hope we can keep this thread factual. Thank you for starting it.

~ Jane

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Guest
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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Jane aren't you still on High Sierra, Mojave seems to be causing most of the issues that we've seen here on the forum

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Contributor ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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@ - actually these problems are not mostly caused by Mojave at all, we've been reporting brush tool lag for five+ years on the Mac.

So that's two "Adobe Community Professionals" that haven't got the slightest idea what they're talking about in this thread.

How do we get this problem escalated to someone who actually knows what they're talking about?

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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leds2097726  wrote

So that's two "Adobe Community Professionals" that haven't got the slightest idea what they're talking about in this thread. . . . How do we get this problem escalated to someone who actually knows what they're talking about?

Hi leds,

Please read the forum guidelines : Guidelines & Tips for the Adobe Forums

Be Respectful: This is a friendly & inviting community- any content that is not respectful of others will not be allowed.”

~ Jane

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Contributor ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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jane-e​   - I've been respectful of others for the five years that I've been reporting the same issue over and over again on here. So has everyone else. I'm at the end of my rope with it and need some feedback from Adobe about what's being done to address these crippling workflow issues.

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Guest
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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leds2097726  wrote

jane-e    - I've been respectful of others for the five years that I've been reporting the same issue over and over again on here. So has everyone else. I'm at the end of my rope with it and need some feedback from Adobe about what's being done to address these crippling workflow issues.

This is only a user forum and we are all users like yourself, there is a Photoshop Feedback forum for reporting bugs where Adobe staff and engineers will see the post

Photoshop | Photoshop Family Customer Community

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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Well, five years of good behaviour doesn’t mean you need to take a break break from it.

Have you posted over on feedback.photoshop.com, too?

As the official place for Photoshop Bug Reports you may or may not get a reply from an Adobe employee but at least it is registered.

Photoshop: A question about Mojave lag workaround | Photoshop Family Customer Community

Photoshop lags, freezes, or runs slowly

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Guest
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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I've only been an ACP for 16 months and in that period any of the threads that I've seen with brush lag have been Mojave related.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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LATEST

Hi Ged,

Yes, I’m still on High Sierra. I have followed the Mojave issues closely and watched Apple break and fix and break things again with the Mojave updates. None of them affected me with Photoshop and other Adobe applications.

The OS X patches include, btw, updates to the video drivers. There have been five patches since Mojave was released seven months ago on 24 Sep 2018.

Windows users need to pay attention and install updates to video drivers on their own. In reality, some folk are better at this than others. When Macs are built, Apple knows what video cards are in any given set of computers and can roll out the updates as required. In my 30 years of being a Mac user, this is the first time I’ve seen them mess up this badly.

Disclosure: I have used PCs concurrently for the 30 years, starting with DOS (which I loved) and Windows 2.0, which was text-only and shipped as a run-time version with PageMaker 1.0.

I love Macs and to me it’s more than just an operating system. But I’m keeping my eyes open all the same.

~ Jane

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Community Expert ,
Jun 12, 2019 Jun 12, 2019

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I am so glad I moved away from Macs.  Yes, I use them for work.  But my Wacom MobileStuio Pro and Cintiq Companion 2 really rock.  Never going back to Apple.

Even I did not have the Wacom devices now... I would probably build my own desktop PC.  One top notch that you see the gamers use.  If you build the right PC desktop... you can out perform any Mac.  To me Mac is just a name any more.  A pricey name.

But that is just me.

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