change in location function

[MTbob]

PSE 19 changed the name of the US to "United States of America." In prior releases, it was simply "United States." Now, when I add US locations, they go into a new category--different than all the previous releases. This is a bug. Is Adobe planning to fix it? What is the easiest way to work around it? Can we expect more issues related to the spelling of nation names coming from the PSE location function?

[MichelBParis · Accepted solution]

MTbob  wrote

PSE 19 changed the name of the US to "United States of America." In prior releases, it was simply "United States." Now, when I add US locations, they go into a new category--different than all the previous releases. This is a bug. Is Adobe planning to fix it? What is the easiest way to work around it? Can we expect more issues related to the spelling of nation names coming from the PSE location function?

Adobe has changed its Map function to link with another online Map supplier since Google no longer allows third party applications to connect directly to the free Google Maps, the result being that users of previous PSE version have lost the ability to connect to Google Maps. The new supplier is reported to be inferior by some users, but it is available and more future proof.

The naming of locations is different anyway, which is bad for tagging places in the catalogs, but the way Google Maps did it was constantly criticized. That's why many users like me did not rely (only) on the map feature to tag places. I have always used standard keywords for that purpose in my personal places hierarchy.

By the way, this is not a bug. It's a decision from Google.

What Adobe offers is access to an external free service. Read the bottom paragraph in the system requirements.

Photoshop Elements system requirements

Many users want to access directly many social media sites or photo storing or displaying sites. It's quite common for those sites to close access to their services, for different reasons including safety and privacy.

So, what Adobe offers is to develop a connecting interface to the relative connecting interface with those sites AND integration of the information gathered from them into the catalog tagging structure. Not a single line of code has been changed in old PSE versions, but connection with Google Maps is now refused.

Search this forum for other posts on the subject. Since I don't care much for displaying locations on a map, my tagging is driven by the way I need to retrieve photos in a search. I don't need to store the whole Map hierarchy like 'Bois de Boulogne','île de France','France', 'Europe'. The first one is enough and in French. The text search will find it instantly. People with real mapping needs (travelers for instance) may want to explore other external tools like geosetter.

[MTbob]

Thanks for taking the time to explain, Michael. Because of its design, PSE gave me the impression that the "add location" function was the preferred way of tagging items. It certainly appears attractive on the surface. My use for locations is the same as yours. So I will go back to using my own geo tags.

Bob

[MichelBParis]

Bob,

I really appreciate your feedback. I believe that the "add location" function (geotagging) has never been the preferred way of tagging Items. Tagging means adding meaningful information to be able to retrieve media among  hundred of thousands of your own library based on your own criteria and interests. For people wanting to offer images to stock agencies, it must be based on pre-defined categories and hierarchies. However, for most people, geotagging offered widely on their phones photos is mainly a way to create much more attractive ways to display their travel souvenirs, not to organize for instant finding in the catalog... I believe them when they say it's the main reason they have bought Elements after they have been disappointed with other free solutions. But the frustration when Google changes the rules should not hide the fact that the real issue is the ability to make two different kinds of software 'talk together', each one being responsible for their own part, the map function and the organizing catalog function. As I said before, having two programs to talk together is always a risk in safety and privacy. This is widely underestimated. You pay for Elements. You don't pay Google... but even after checking most privacy settings, I am discovering how much they do know about me, and how much money they can make from that info!

But back to the organization in your catalogs.

What has changed for me in the organizer is the power of the advanced text search. That's something relatively new: people and especially younger persons are 'googling' many times a day for any kind of information. The text search ignores all hierarchical tags and prefers associating simple words. On one hand, people are becoming cleverer at selecting their texts and on the other, artificial intelligence does wonders. I can type "Elysées" and the text search finds the tag "Champs Elysées" or simply the substring "Elysées" in the text of a caption, in less than two seconds. Life is good!

[MTbob]

Thanks, very informative. In my usage, I do like the hierarchical structure of the map tie-in.  Such as:

California

    San Fran

    San Diego

         zoo

          my birthday

    .....

I don't see any way to create sub location tags, except to use the map function. I see that I can rename the tags, so is that how I would build a location tagging system with nested tags and the naming I prefer? I wonder, is it future-proof in case that the deal with the current mapping company goes away again?

[MichelBParis]

MTbob  wrote

Thanks, very informative. In my usage, I do like the hierarchical structure of the map tie-in.  Such as:

California

    San Fran

    San Diego

         zoo

          my birthday

    .....

I don't see any way to create sub location tags, except to use the map function. I see that I can rename the tags, so is that how I would build a location tagging system with nested tags and the naming I prefer?

You can freely create a places hierarchical structure, for instance:

- continent (Europe)

          - country (France)

               - country region (Île de France)

                      - country sub region  (Paris 75)

                              - City (Paris)

The old keyword panel let you create tags, categories and subcategories, attribute categories to tags, change categories to tags, subcategories to categories etc. Ask if you can't do it. When you have assigned a City tag like Paris, selecting the country (France) will find your Paris pictures, even if you have not assigned 'France' as a keyword.

If you choose the associative way to combine words instead of creating a hierarchical keywords structure for places, you choose if you want to enter 'France' AND 'Paris' without any structure with categories and subcategories. A text search for 'Paris' will be much easier and faster (you don't have to know the hierarchy, you don't have to display a long indented list of tags to even find the 'Paris' tag.) You can decide if its worth to add the 'France' tag to distinguish with Paris (USA). Or to be able to select from two distinctly entered keywords.

The issue I have with hierarchical tags trees is :

1 - Finding the keyword within the large hierarchy may be slow and problematic

2 - It requires you to know the hierarchy level. You probably don't care if you only know that Paris is in France, not the region and subregion. When you search for other hierarchies (birds, minerals, flowers...) are you sure to know all the upper hierarchy levels?

3 - There is a risk of duplicate tags in various hierarchy levels.

4 - Compatibility :  see that discussion in the feedback forum.

Lightroom: Keywords don't sync between CC and Classic | Photoshop Family Customer Community

I wonder, is it future-proof in case that the deal with the current mapping company goes away again?

It's more future-proof since you can no longer hope for integration with Google Maps. And Adobe has to find the best partner for the same reason as yours.

It's useful anyway because it can help you tag your pictures in the conventional keywords way and provide a better way to display your travel pictures.

[MTbob]

Thanks Michel. I understand and see the benefits of the associative approach. I will rethink about how best to harness PSE to find the  photos of interest. I may have another question at some point--I appreciate the time you spent addressing my dilemma.

Bob

[sweepling]

Michel,

I have posted 2 comments ref PSE 19 Place tagging on another forum. If I decided to go your way and ignose Geo-tagging, is there any way to copy my current Geo place tags and make them Keyword Tags?

Grateful if you would consider my other postings ref Place tags.

Regards.

[Photosbyme]

I'd like to know the answer to this as I have several thousand pics Geo-tegged. That's not important to me. Is there an easy way to make them Keyword Tags?

[Greg_S.]

Here is the strategy, I would use:

1. Re-create (or modify) your old hierarchy using the keyword tag approach discussed by Michel above in a new keyword tag hierarchy.
2. Check a box for a Places geo-tag.
3. Press Ctrl+A to select all of the images with that tag
4. Drag the matching tag from your new keyword tag hierarchy to the images in the grid and they will all be tagged with the new keyword tag.
5. Once you have completed the keyword tagging, you can, if desired to avoid confusion, delete the Places geo-tags by selecting the tags and hitting the delete button.  You will receive a warning message that all underlying places in the hierarchy will also be deleted, but this will not affect your new keyword tags.

[Photosbyme]

Thanks. After I posted my question, I realized I could do as you suggested. It will be some work, but not too huge. But I am glad to know I can safely delete the geo-tags. Now, I just have to figure out the best hierarchy 🙂

I am looking forward to trying out other changes in 2020. Looks like some of the stuff that was hard for me b/c of hand function disability will be much easier!

[dianap31691216]

Issue with mapping new locations just got more interesting. Indianola MS and Ridgeland MS just got assigned to Massachusetts, and, at this point, I haven't been able to move it. I have despised the mapping concept since it first reared its ugly head. I don't want to deny anyone else the chance to use it if it works for them, but it would be grand to have a setting that let me choose whether to tie my locations to a map or not.

[Greg_S.]

dianap31691216 said:

I don't want to deny anyone else the chance to use it if it works for them, but it would be grand to have a setting that let me choose whether to tie my locations to a map or not.

As others have suggested in this thread, why don't you just use keyword tags?  You can have 3 levels of hierarchy.

[dianap31691216]

I am working through the process now of doing just that. It's just pretty painful when you travel a lot and have thousands of pictures managed in Photoshop Elements for 14-15 years. I'm only saying that offering the option to use the places tags without requiring a pass through whatever maps search is currently being used would be handy.