When Scale to Frame Size is used on top layer , below layer is blacked out. Is this normal?

[rikeditor]

Hi!

I having a especific error what i thinks it's not normal, so i reporting this as a bug/error

Here is the video of that bug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP947l1x7EE

Let me explain whats happening:

In a normal video, i'm using a background image with a video/image in minor scale on top. A basic thing.

All my actual projects is in 1920x1080. So what happen when i put another media with a bigger resolution (the media in example is 1440p) and this media has active the "Scale from frame size" when i reopen the project, the layers below just turned black.

I tried clean the media cache, reset the preferences, the workspaces, changing video coded/format i using to inserts in my videos, updating my setup, switching the version of Premiere, not using multicam (going against my workflow) and nothing helps, so i think this is a issue to adress here.

Another infos

Version: 24.5.0 (Build 57)

Operating system: Windows 10

System Info:

• CPU - 13th Gen Intel Core i7-13700K

• GPU - GeForce RTX 3080 Palit Microsystems 10GB

• GPU driver (PC) - GeForce Game Ready 591.09

• RAM - 80GB

• Hard Drive - WDC WD60EZAZ-00SF3B0 (SSD) / ST4000DM004-2U9104 / ST2000DM001-1CH164 / TEAM TM8FP3256G (SSD) / KINGSTON SFYRSK1000G (SSD)

Video Format:

• MP4 AVC1 YUV 4:2:0 8-bit 3840x2160 29.97 in a Multicam sequence with Ultra Key and Lumetri Color
• PSD for background
• Various medias for inserts and overlays

Workflow details:

• Sequence - 1920x1080 29.97
• Multicam Sequence - 3840x2160 29.97

Steps to reproduce:

• Create a 1080p sequence
• Create a White Color Matte with 1920x1080 and put in V1
• Create a Red Color Matte (or another color) with a bigger resolution (3840x2160 for example) and put in V2
• Activate the "Scale to Frame Size" in the Color Matte of V2 and changing the Scale for a value under 100 (90 for example)
• Save and close the project
• Reopen the project and the error of the layers below turning black probably will happen

Thanks for the attention

[IanB_360]

Sorry you are experiencing this issue, and thank you for taking your time to file a bug report. At a glance it seems like this would be a GPU driver issue or perhaps an effects/ plug ins issue. You say you have the latest Game Ready Drivers installed correct? GeForce Game Ready 591.09?  Are the rest of your drivers also up to date. One other thing off the top of my head to check is to turn off any effects or third party plugins you might have on the background PSD file. Since you are on a PC see what happens when you open Premiere holding the Alt key and then check the box that says, Disable third - party plugins (one time only).

Let me know if any of these steps help.

Thank you

Ian

[Kevin-Monahan]

The status of this bug report has been updated.

[rikeditor]

Hi Ian!

I tried to recording the test open the Premiere with the "Disable third-party plugins" two times in a roll but this function works only one time. So, i uninstalled all my third-party plugins to make this test and the same thing happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSg2RBNJ44I

But, with that recording i found out that the issue doesnt occours when the layer on top is with any value than 0 and in a scale with minus than 50 (in that situation in a 1080p sequence with a bigger media on top)

Just to confirm, i make a fresh install of Premiere in my partner PC (so it is another setup, another drivers...), followed the steps to reproduce the problem that I sent in the initial post and the same issue appears in the screen.

To make shure, i asked to 2 of my friends to follow my steps and...

So, i have to ask: You followed my steps to reproduce this issue? I make this with the color mattes of Premiere just to eliminate any doubts.

I hope we can find a solution for this because after a video with a black border went to Brazilian national TV because of this problem, I ended up getting a little paranoid about it. It's not very nice to have to review a 3 hour video and discover that my media larger than 1080p dissapeared with the layout of some parts of the video.

Thanks for the attention

[MyerPj]

I think it goes back to the old joke, 'Doctor, it hurts when I do this' and the doctor replies, 'don't do that!'

• Activate the "Scale to Frame Size" in the Color Matte of V2

I  don't think 'Scale to Frame  Size' was meant to be used on a color matte. You can simply add (on v2) your original color matte and change the color and scale it down a bit.

I was able to duplicate from your steps, but I've never contemplated scaling a matte use scale to frame size.

[rikeditor]

Hi MyerPj

Ok, let me put this clear: The Color Mattes its just an example to show how to replicate the issue. Sorry if i make my explanation a litte confusing

So lets recap:

In my workflow, my inserts uses a placeholder media along all the timeline

And them i replace this placeholder with the Source Monitor or a media from the Bin

The scale of the placeholder is a default to show the background to they look like a border and the placeholder is with Scale to the Frame Size active because we work with many sizes of media. Sometimes smaller than 1080p, sometimes bigger.

Again: the color matte is a example to replicate this issue without the necessity of downloading images or videos.

So let's try this:

Steps to reproduce:

• Create a 1080p sequence
• Import a media with 1920x1080 and put in V1 (you can use this image for example)
• Import a media with a bigger resolution (3840x2160 for example - like this image) and put in V2
• Activate the "Scale to Frame Size" in the media of V2 and changing the Scale for a value under 100 and above 49 (90 for example)
• Save and close the project
• Reopen the project and the error of the layers below turning black probably will happen

If you want try with videos instead of images, i have 99,9% of confidence the issue will appear.

Thanks

[MyerPj]

Hey Rik, thanks for including the links, made it easy to test. Yes, it still happens however, have you heard the old joke: 'Doctor, it hurts when I do this' and the doctor replies, 'don't do that!'

OK, 'Scale' to frame size has not been recommended for years. Perhaps when that was the only choice. 'SET' to frame size is the better option. SCALE releases the pixels, wheras SET just sets the scale property in this case to 50%. So  with scale, if you resize it half size, and after you enlarge it at all, you are losing quality. With SET you can then scale up to 100% with no quality loss as the pixels are still there.

So, just use SET and as we tell people here, pretend Scale to... isn't even there.

[IanB_360]

Have you tried to ignore using Scale to frame size and manually adjust the layers? I can confirm that the issue happens when you use Scale to Frame size and will be logging this as a bug. The work around for now is to manually adjust the size in scale and you should not have the issue. 

Ian

[rikeditor]

Hi Ian

Yeah, for now, i ignore the "Scale" and i'm going to use the "Set" for default. That's what I was doing when this problem happened while I was working on TV. However, in the following jobs I didn't have many media in larger sizes.

So, when i was working in the current project, after a while using only "Scale", I didn't realize that this project had larger media and when I returned to the project the next day, I needed to correct about 50 inserts to fix.

I thank you for logging this bug, and for now, i will add one or two more steps in my workflow waiting for a solution

Thanks for attention and have a nice day

[MyerPj]

Basically Rik, you using Set or Scale is like what happens when I turn on my AC for a few minutes when I go to bed. I've already upped the HOLD temp in the evening so it stops going on, until I change it. Let's say 80 is the norm, and I up it to 83 to keep it from coming on. That's like your big graphic. So, when I want to set it to say 78 to cool off, so I need to down the thermostat 5 clicks. If I select 'Run Program' it sets it to 80, that's like you using Set to Framesize, then I need two more clicks to get down to 78. Thats like you setting the scale manually to it's final amount.

In the simplest form, I could just down click the thermostat to 78 and skip the 'Run Program' like you could just skip the Set to Framesize and set the scale to what you want it.

(I couldn't resist!) 🙂