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TrueType Font downloaded, OpenType Font Installed

New Here ,
Aug 06, 2018 Aug 06, 2018

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I download TrueType Fonts and double click them to install them into the FontBook application. When they install, sometimes they install as a TrueType Font still, but then once I go to use it in any of the CC Applications, the only version available is the OpenType Font. OR I will download the TrueType Font, and when I install it into FontBook, in the information, it says the Kind: is OpenType Font - in that case, I can see in finder the font is .tff and then in FontBook it says OpenType Font.

Has anyone ever had this happen before? Is this even an Adobe issue, or is this a third party issue or if this an apple issue?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Aug 06, 2018 Aug 06, 2018
Very easy to explain!  There are actually three flavours of TrueType fonts.The original TrueType fonts were available in both MacOS and Windows formats.In the late 1990s, a number of companies collaborated to produce the OpenType specification. There are two flavours of OpenType fonts. The first is OpenType TrueType which is effectively a highly-enhanced version of the original Windows TrueType file format using quadratic outlines. Generally, these OpenType fonts have the file suffix .ttf. The s...

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Aug 06, 2018 Aug 06, 2018

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Aug 06, 2018 Aug 06, 2018

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Very easy to explain! 

There are actually three flavours of TrueType fonts.

The original TrueType fonts were available in both MacOS and Windows formats.

In the late 1990s, a number of companies collaborated to produce the OpenType specification. There are two flavours of OpenType fonts. The first is OpenType TrueType which is effectively a highly-enhanced version of the original Windows TrueType file format using quadratic outlines. Generally, these OpenType fonts have the file suffix .ttf. The second is OpenType CFF which has file format similar to that of OpenType TrueType, but instead of the outlines and hinting of TrueType, it uses the Bezier outlines and hinting of the original Type 1 fonts used in the original PostScript printers. Generally, these OpenType fonts have the suffix .otf.

Note that it is not unusual to see OpenType TrueType fonts with the file suffix .otf although font renderers are generally smart enough to differentiate between the OpenType TrueType and OpenType CFF flavours of OpenType based on internal content of the fonts.

          - Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

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New Here ,
Aug 27, 2018 Aug 27, 2018

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So what exactly does this mean?

Even if a font is labeled as a .ttf files, it is still going to be read as an .otf file in my application? Then why when I purchased a font, am I getting files of .ttf AND .otf? How can I know what is really a truetype font?

I am using a mac system. I am not sure where to go from here is I really need to be using truetype fonts only. So does this mean that even if it might say .ttf, it isnt really a truetype font?

Are true truetype fonts going to be harder to come by from now on?

Can you break this down into simpler terms?

THank you!

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Aug 28, 2018 Aug 28, 2018

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OK, I'll try to break this down into simpler terms.

The reality is that the file suffix of .ttf or .otf is not a definitive indicator of exactly what type (pun intended) of font is actually in the file.

On a MacOS-based system, there are actually three flavours of TrueType fonts - the original MacOS only version of TrueType which is totally incompatible with Windows systems, the cross-platform TrueType font that uses only the file's data fork and is the TrueType format originally designed for use on Windows, and the cross-platform TrueType OpenType font which is a superset of the cross-platform TrueType font from Windows.

The original MacOS TrueType fonts, although still usable on MacOS systems, are not commonly distributed anymore. They often don't even have a file suffix. You certainly don't want to use them for websites.

The current cross-platform TrueType fonts typically have the file suffix .ttf.

The cross-platform TrueType OpenType fonts typically have the file suffix .ttf and are a superset of the features of the original cross-platform TrueType fonts. These additional features provide for highly advanced typographical features. Most new TrueType fonts being created are actually TrueType OpenType fonts. As far as I know, these fonts “work” wherever TrueType fonts are expected or required.

There is no evidence that TrueType fonts are “going to be harder to come by from now on.”

As I originally indicated, although OpenType CFF fonts typically use the .otf file suffix, we have seen numerous instances where TrueType OpenType fonts also use that suffix.

In reality, it is necessary to look inside the font file to determine whether a font is really a TrueType, TrueType OpenType, or an OpenType CFF font. Even looking at a font file's properties via Get Info (via right clicking on a font file) only looks at the file suffix to guess what type of font the file represents. To get the factual information as to a font's actual type, you need to look at a font via the Font Book utility's Show Font Info screen.

There aren't many applications that absolutely require TrueType fonts? What application is causing this issue for you?

          - Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

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New Here ,
Jan 28, 2020 Jan 28, 2020

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DOV,   On this topic can you please help me with a long time problem that has plagued my usage of AI for years.

As a designer i often will receive pdf's from Architectural firms that invariably will NOT translate the font into anything but boxes with X in them.  I've never figured out how to find the font, however, with a huge job just landed today, i'd rather spend the day trying to finally understand and resolve.   The Font property described in the pdf received describes 3 fonts... Arial, Arial Bold, and Century Gothic.  All three types are Truetype.   When i open them in Illustrator those particular 3 fonts that i have in the library are all described as Opentype.... see attached snaps.  Seems like you might have an instant solution for me perhaps... At least i am praying right now, lolAI snapshot of pull down font menu.pngAI Snapshot of text.pngFont property.pngpdf snapshot of text.png

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Jan 28, 2020 Jan 28, 2020

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If fact, all of those fonts are indeed OpenType fonts. As I explained in an earlier posting in this thread, there are two major flavours of OpenType fonts. OpenType CFF fonts are OpenType fonts with Bezier curve outlines similar to the old Type 1 fonts. OpenType TrueType fonts are OpenType fonts with Quadratic curve outlines similar to the old simple TrueType fonts. Although the original Arial and Century Gothic fonts distributed by Microsoft were in fact the original TrueType format, for many years now they are actually OpenType TrueType format with all the features of OpenType fonts using the TrueType Quadratic outlines.

 

Actually, it is Acrobat that really should update its font display to differentiate these. Thus, there is nothing wrong with Illustrator here.

 

In terms of opening arbitrary PDF files in Illustrator, that is potentially a very lossy type of operation. Adobe Illustrator is not, repeat not, repeat yet again not a general purpose PDF file editor. Illustrator simply doesn't support many features of the PDF imaging model; it wasn't designed for that! In many cases content is lost or modified, especially when dealing with text, colors, and thin lines.

 

That having been said, the problem is likely in the original PDF file. It likely doesn't fully and properly adhere to the PDF standard in terms of how it embeds fonts and encoding tables. If you are getting the text to appear via opening in Illustrator, it is more luck than anything else.

 

If you can post a sample, I'll gladly take a look for you and try to see where the problem is. FWIW, much PDF coming our of various architectural design software is somewhat wonky!

 

            - Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

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New Here ,
Jan 28, 2020 Jan 28, 2020

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DOV,
Thank you for the speedy response.
My company, straightdesigns.com specializes in design for the multi-family development and hospitality industry.
I've been grinding away for the last 8 years and am an extremely aggressive and probably rare proponent for Illustrator usage in my field. 
I do so because I love the hybrid capabilities I can merge onto an artboard with illustrator over any other program medium.
I do work with a lot of architects. 
It is standard for us to receive a pdf file that was converted from a dwg.  
It is standard for all the information to be received as a single layer.
It is standard that all of the dim lines overshoot the arrow head point by a fraction.  
It is standard that all blocking in dwg is interpreted as triangular blocks in AI.
It is standard that all hatching and texture fields are a nightmare to deal with in a single layer.
 
All the above I have patiently dealt with and accepted over the years.
The one nightmare above all is the inability to import a font that will resolve the problem with the AI interpretation of a dwg chosen font, such is the case here again. 
Please open file in illustrator and what you'll see is completely typical of the obstacles I am always presented with when working with illustrator.  However the subsequent magic I produce within this program for the client makes the aggravation worth it.
The link below takes you to a file that is typical (I have 104 pdfs in this particular package) of the problem that I need to resolve.
Adobe Help chat line is absolutely useless and a waste of time.
Finally through this forum, I have found you, and just by your clear breadth of knowledge I'm really thinking if you cant solve this then probably nobody can.
 
Is there any way to make this files font readable.
Other than driving the architects crazy with weird demands, what could I personally on my end do or buy to eliminate the problem for once and for all:
 
 
Can you please help me solve this.....
Warm regards

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New Here ,
Jan 28, 2020 Jan 28, 2020

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Actually the last link was a useless example... check this one out as a great example:

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/review?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3A515a4f54-d09a-4511-8c8e-a89...

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Jan 29, 2020 Jan 29, 2020

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OK, I've downloaded your PDF file and reviewed it.

 

(1)    I opened the file in Adobe Acrobat Pro DC, version 2019.021.20061, the latest update publicly available. It opened without any issues whatsoever. All text appeared correctly with no .notdef glyphs (the box with the X in it). Checking the properties, I see the following:

 

Document Properties - DescriptionDocument Properties - DescriptionDocument Properties - FontsDocument Properties - Fonts

 

There is nothing unusual here, but may be relevant is that the font encoding used here is built-in; in other words, the embedded font has its own encoding vector for the embedded subset. I also ran the Acrobat Preflight profile to List potential font problems. There were no errors shown although it did point out multiple font encodings used within the PDF file.

 

Acrobat Preflight - Potential Font ProblemsAcrobat Preflight - Potential Font Problems

 

(2)    I then opened the PDF file in Adobe Illustrator, latest version with all publicly available updates. In terms of the text displayed, there were no “issues” although during the file open process there was a warning that some text would be converted to outlines. All text looked normal without any of those nasty .notdef  boxes with the X.

 

(3)    I then realized that there was one critically important difference between my experience and yours. You opened the PDF file in Illustrator under MacOS and I was running under Windows. What difference should that make you ask? Big difference. When Illustrator opens a PDF file (remember that I warned that this was anything but a recommended procedure), it does not use the fonts embedded within the PDF file, but rather depends on the fonts of the same name installed on the user's system. For better or worse, the Arial and Arial Bold fonts supplied by Apple with MacOS are not the same as the Arial and Arial Bold fonts supplied by Microsoft with Windows. I suspect that the problem is that Adobe Illustrator is either ignoring the PDF file's encoding vectors for the embedded fonts and/or is attempting to apply them to a font that is not the same as that embedded in the PDF file. OUCH! I suspect that if you opened these PDF files with Illustrator on Windows, you would not experience this particular set of problems.

 

Now, let's cut to the chase …

 

As I indicated earlier in this thread, Adobe Illustrator was not designed to be a PDF file editor. The only PDF files that Illustrator can safely edit are PDF files that were saved from the same or earlier version of Illustator if and only if the “save editability” option was specified when doing the save and if all the original fonts of the original Illustrator file are also installed on the system; in that case, Illustrator actually embeds the “real” Illustrator format within the PDF file as “private data” which is what Illustrator actually does its edits with. Yes, you can edit fragments of PDF files with Illustrator, typically relatively simple graphics, but often with unexpected results.

 

Recommendation …

 

I believe that you might be much better off in this particular case since you need to edit the architectural diagrams by requesting .DWG files instead of PDF files. Illustrator does support edit of .DWG files and may do a much better job of preserving the subtleties of the original architectural diagram than creating PDF from the DWG and then attempting to edit in Illustrator.

 

In summary, I think the text problem you are experiencing is due to cross-platform font inconsistencies (although the fonts are named the same) and that problem could be resolved by doing the Illustrator work on Windows. Alternately, request the .DWG files and edit those directly in Illustrator from which you can subsequently generate PDF if necessary or desired.

 

Let me know if this assists you to resolve the problem(s).

 

             - Dov

- Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)

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New Here ,
Jan 29, 2020 Jan 29, 2020

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OK understood.  Will employ the new path of resolution you've suggested.  At least i now understand that I cant simply seek and install a font that would simply function properly on my mac.  thank you for an incredibly comprehensive explanation.  NOTE: Online support at the chat level (not this forum) totally sucks.  

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