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Adobe refuses to sell their products!!! We have to just RENT them now???

New Here ,
May 10, 2013 May 10, 2013

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Why won't Adobe sell it's products any longer? If I pay Adobe the monthly subscription for 12 months and then have a poor couple of months financially and need to cut costs, then I loose all rights to use Adobe products installed. Or if I pay you this monthly fee, and Adobe has financial issues, ie the GFC, and it goes bankrupt and closes down, then bad luck all the thousands of Adobe subscribes, you no longer have a product to use. This makes about as much sense as a kick in the head. What happened to looking after your valued customers that have purchased your products from the early days when Adobe actually valued it's clients? Sure give us the option of a monthly subscription, but some don't want to rent your product. We would actually prefer to buy them and own it. Some of us give their older versions of photoshop to our kids to learn and hey maybe one day when they leave school and work in the creative world because of that old version of photoshop dad gave them, end up buying the latest version of adobe CS for themselves. But if I rent it, well bad luck, only I can use it on my computer (One user at a time) and too bad everyone else in my household. Mmm, to say I'm disappointed with Adobe would be an understatement. More like disgusted. So much for loyalty and valued clients. If Adobe refuses to sell me their products well I guese I'll just have to look for an alternative, or keep using my older versions which I purchased and own. Good bye Adobe, Whenever you are ready to start selling me your products, I'll start listening again.

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Mentor ,
May 10, 2013 May 10, 2013

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Your not alone there are other threads about this bone-headed idea.

Read the other post  participate in them also there is a discussion about this on Facebook add your opinion there.

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Participant ,
May 10, 2013 May 10, 2013

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Renato Cillero wrote:

Why won't Adobe sell it's products any longer? If I pay Adobe the monthly subscription for 12 months and then have a poor couple of months financially and need to cut costs, then I loose all rights to use Adobe products installed.

Well according to Adobe, if you have couple of months financial crisis then you should not be using their products.  Their products are mainly for people who are economically active and without any financial worries.  Have you thought of hiring an MVP for free?  Your 12 months subscription comes with 12 months of free support by an MVP on these forums.  MVPs are experienced individuals who are currently jobless.

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LEGEND ,
May 10, 2013 May 10, 2013

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MVPs are experienced individuals who are currently jobless.

Well, cannot speak for others, but some are just "retired."

Once, I upgraded to most new releases, as there were almost always functions included, that would benefit me, or my clients. Now, it's just down to me - and the Adobe Forums. Maybe trying to do a bit of "pay back," for years of using the Adobe software, to earn a very good living, and enhance my work. When things go exclusively to the CC, I will likely "get a life," and maybe just review restaurants, resorts and wines... ?

Hunt

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Mentor ,
May 11, 2013 May 11, 2013

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And some are just downright Tired physically and mentally

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LEGEND ,
May 11, 2013 May 11, 2013

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Phillip,

There HAS been a bunch of that going around too.

Hunt

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New Here ,
May 30, 2013 May 30, 2013

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There will come a time when I won't be picking up a camera so often, or maybe not at all, but I would still like to view my files. I am at that point definitely NOT going to rent PS just for that. Thanks to Graphic Converter.

The only other programs I use with any frequency are Bridge and Acrobat so I am not NOW going to rent everything Adobe makes. I know a number of people who are doing just fine with CS3 or 4 or 5, and they were never going to buy CS6 because Adobe did not offer any new features in that release that they could use. Very few users do use every feature the program offers, and they don't miss what they can't & won't use. I would imagine that this applies to individual users like myself and also to large shops. Buying meant you could use the program for a very long time (until obsoleted by OS changes) until the new features gave you something you liked or could make money on. Their former upgrade policy did penalize you for failing to upgrade frequently enough (a couple of iterations as I recall) but there were still users who did the numbers and passed. When an upgrade promised to be of use, they upgraded. The rental now for PS will be less than the yearly cost for buying and keeping for a few years, but there are no promises for the cost in the future, are there?

The solution for me now is to never, ever delete CS6 until it will no longer work on a current Mac operating system, and at that point I would buy an older Mac with the last OS CS6 works on.

When I do leave my desktop it is sometimes to an area with - believe it or not - poor internet service.

I would hope the marketing wizards at Adobe read these forums and take a look at their sales numbers.

I never thought I would say this as a steady customer since the early 90's: I also hope other developers move in on the territory.

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Explorer ,
May 30, 2013 May 30, 2013

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I wouldn't worry about having poor internet, you just don't save to adobe's crappy sometimes broken servers. You just have to worry about authenticating once per month or 90 days before authentication expires. I believe this doesn't require a ton of bandwidth.

But all else you write is totally valid. I run design premium 5.5 and did not plan to upgrade until 7 came out, that is, if 7 offered an advantage to my work and business.

Here's a tragedy of CC though, CS was forced to add a bunch of obscure and mostly niche stuff in order to call the next step an upgrade. Maybe 1 or 2 usefull (to most users) features per increment. It's especially bad in programs such as illustrator. Now with CC however, adobe is not pushed into forcing upgrades. The execs at adobe will not continue to fund the rapid development of their more mature programs when they arn't forced to increment. So basically, i suspect we'll be using what was Photoshop CS7 into the 2020's.

Also, adobe has a history of predatory pricing, just look at Australia's recent debacle. Who really trusts adobe to not up the price by +$5 a month, every year? I certainly don't.

Also, CC locks the formats to only CC. So that you won't be able to open your documents 10 years from now unless you're paying more money. Ala your work as a hostage.

This cloud crap may be great for kiddies who were weened on facebook, they may love the idea of being plugged into some server for every darn thing they do. But to me, this is no way to handle a professional industry standard tool.

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LEGEND ,
May 30, 2013 May 30, 2013

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Seems simple enough to me... 

  • If the value provided by the functions and features of the software is something you need, and it's worth the cost and risk (which is just cost by another name), do what it takes (join the cloud) to get the software. 
  • If not, don't, unless or until such time as it is worth it to you.

What most fail to realize is that your perspective is different NOW than it will be in a few years.  Any predictions about the future are just speculation; any number of things could change - Adobe could implement features you can't live without, they could offer different pricing, they could create a cloud exit strategy, you could become wealthy enough that paying from now on doesn't faze you...

-Noel

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Explorer ,
May 30, 2013 May 30, 2013

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I wish it were that simple. The fact of the matter is that we'll HAVE to 'subscribe' to this revolutionary better-for-accountants scenario. You really think that the entire offering of adobe industry-standard-tools was a good testing ground for this? And if you think people won't be sitting at workstations in 10 years still plugging away at keyboards and mice... you've been drinking too much tablet kool-aid.

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Mentor ,
May 30, 2013 May 30, 2013

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No actually there will be many still using mice or Touch pads  10 years from now. 20 years from now adobe won't even exist.

On the pathe they are going I've the two three years at the most before they go belly up, unless they see the error of their ways.

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LEGEND ,
May 30, 2013 May 30, 2013

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ygt42876 wrote:

I wish it were that simple. The fact of the matter is that we'll HAVE to 'subscribe' to this revolutionary better-for-accountants scenario. You really think that the entire offering of adobe industry-standard-tools was a good testing ground for this? And if you think people won't be sitting at workstations in 10 years still plugging away at keyboards and mice... you've been drinking too much tablet kool-aid.

Boy have you got me wrong.  I'm dead set against tabletization, and I'll be one of the last desktop computer users on the planet I imagine.

You cannot argue with my premise:  That your perspective WILL change.  Please check back here in 10 years and tell us how the decade went for you, please.

-Noel

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Explorer ,
May 31, 2013 May 31, 2013

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Yeah in 10 year i'll prob be retired, and have to continue paying adobe to see my work, or if I have a whim to make something with ye'olde-tools. We all pretty much have to conform to this sooner or later if they dont change their offering. It's software-as-a-disservice. CS rewarded loyalty through lower cost upgrades, sure skip one or 2 if you didn't like it, whereas CC forces that loyalty. It becomes just another bill on the pile. I'll end up paying at least 2x what I paid before, sure I'll get a lot more programs, but I never used master suite progs anyway.

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New Here ,
May 31, 2013 May 31, 2013

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Lol. Registered Adobe user for 10 years or so but never registered for the forum. Just tried with name Bye Bye Adobe and I couldn't because it was already taken! Anyhow, I've been using Adobe software since the very ealry 90's but used Quark until the early 2000's, in fact until the first release of InDesign when I convinced my then employer to change from Quark to Indesign (large Print company) and they did, surpirsed myself with that one! A few years later I left them to join a startup and convinced them to go with 100% Adobe products and then a few years later started my own design studio and we were 100% Adobe, but not anymore. Tonight I found myself visiting Quark, a company I swore I would never do business with again, to purchase licences of their software. I also spent the evening looking a alternatives to the other Adobe products, which do exist and at a fraction of the cost. CC is the greatest slap in the face that any user of a product can get from a company as far as I'm concerned. Overpriced, ill-concieved with no regard for the customer just 100% about profit. Nothing short of arrogant which happens to companies when they think they have a market cornered and can do what they want, just as Quark did years ago (how has that worked out for them?). While my business is far from the largest contributor to Adobe's profit margin it has done its bit but not anymore. If more of the smaller users of Adobe products moved away from their products then maybe we would see Adobe acting less like the money grabbing joke that they have become. Adobe Tools… you can decide whether I'm referring to the programs or the management running the company. Bye Bye Bye Adobe.

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New Here ,
May 16, 2013 May 16, 2013

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This is more troubling to me:

From their terms of service:

6.5 Adobe may modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Services or Materials, or any portion thereof, with or without notice. You agree that Adobe shall not be liable to you or anyone else if we do so.

So my business is completely at the mercy of Adobe.

No way.

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LEGEND ,
May 16, 2013 May 16, 2013

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photofred wrote:

This is more troubling to me:

From their terms of service:

6.5 Adobe may modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Services or Materials, or any portion thereof, with or without notice. You agree that Adobe shall not be liable to you or anyone else if we do so.

So my business is completely at the mercy of Adobe.

No way.

This is evil courting stupidity, for one would have to be a complete imbecile to sign on to this model.

You summed it up well:  NO WAY !

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 17, 2013 May 17, 2013

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What about if someone does illicit business through Creative Cloud, for instance shares pictures of naked underage children, or other illegal activities?

I agree that the terms should list a valid reason, rather than imply that they have a kill switch they can flip on April Fools day.

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Mentor ,
May 17, 2013 May 17, 2013

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An to bet it all they are having ever since the unveiling of the new version of Creative Cloud application. They can't get the sync server to work. been out about a week with no hope in sight to fix. and the new CC won't stay signed in and to get it to sign in you have quit the application then reopen and sign in again.  Will stay on about 2 minutes and it off again.

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LEGEND ,
May 17, 2013 May 17, 2013

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Pierre,

The ramifications of that disclaimer clause go far beyond Adobe's ability to suspend or ban a user—a possibility that didn't even enter my mind until you brought it up.

What Adobe is flatly stating is that they can unilaterally decide whether or when to terminate the subscription model, partially or in its entirety for all users.

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New Here ,
May 17, 2013 May 17, 2013

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Right. Total control for Adobe, ZERO protection for users. Completely absurd!

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LEGEND ,
May 17, 2013 May 17, 2013

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photofred wrote:

Right. Total control for Adobe, ZERO protection for users. Completely absurd!

Hate to be a Devil's Advocate, but if YOU hired a lawyer, would you want to be sure whatever legal agreement you were writing up gave your potential adversary rights?

Let's get real here.  EULAs have been around forever, and they have always been one-sided.

-Noel

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Mentor ,
May 17, 2013 May 17, 2013

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Whether the company wants it that way or not they should be required to provide rental service for those that want it. and Permanenet license DVD OR download To those that want that.  They should have no choice in the matter period.

MS is getting around this mess by providing both. the DVD version cost more but it is provided. customers have both options.  In this case MS is the smarter outfit.

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LEGEND ,
May 17, 2013 May 17, 2013

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I can appreciate your aversion to the cloud subscription model, Phillip, but I'm sorry to say that "having no choice period" seems to me to be about the worst idea the world of capitalism has heard in a long time.

And before we get extreme or upset, let's all remember that everyone DOES have a choice:  Join or not.  Don't sign up and give them your money if you don't feel the product is worth it.  If your favorite car maker stopped making new cars you could buy, you might just keep the car you have and wait.  Or look for another brand.

Maybe 3 years from now Adobe will have features in the product you just can't live without.  Consider getting a cloud subscription then.

Or maybe they'll have had so few people take a "wait and see" approach that they'll re-institute something like a new perpetual license model of some sort.  THIS is what I think is going to happen.  I believe the subscription-only approach is a transitional phase to something else, though I don't have hard evidence to back this feeling up.

Personally I'm excited enough by the new features in Photoshop CC (especially the prospect of producing better quality images via the detail-preserving upsampling and the deconvolution-based sharpening tools) that I feel it's worth it now.

-Noel

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Enthusiast ,
May 17, 2013 May 17, 2013

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Yup.  Join or don't.  That's pretty much the ultimatum that Adobe force fed its customers.  So if you guys are upset, have some conviction, do NOT join, and just make due with what you have.

Adobe is a monopolistic corporation.  The only thing that has an impact on them is income.  And the only way they'll see the repercussions of their actions is for people to stem to tide of income.

DON'T join.  Convince others not to join.  Convince others to make due with what they have.  We don't need the new software.  It's really not that worthy of difference or upgrade anyways.  Don't fall into the rut of upgrading when your current software more than cuts mustard.

Expect Adobe to report records with CC.  Expect marketing to lie in any way possible to state that the new plan is a success, that it is doing well for itself, and any other lie they can state to make you feel as if your inaction has no effect on them.  But hold fast and stick to your guns.  Spread word of mouth and just get as many people as you can to make due.

I did an estimate and have kept about $50,000 out of Adobe's pockets, and I'm looking for more and more opportunities to make that number bigger.  Even if you can keep $600 from Adobe, do it.  Every little bit helps.

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LEGEND ,
May 17, 2013 May 17, 2013

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