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How seriously do we take this point system?

Engaged ,
May 19, 2009 May 19, 2009

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Seriously, do points matter? Do you want them? Why if so, why, if not? Are points any good? Do points make you feel more secure? Are points pointed and sharp or are they blunt and blunted? Do points encourage you to answer questions or do they discourage you?

Points are not a line... but connecting two pints makes a line... So do points awarded in an answer draw aline and stop all further discussion?

I've been following threads in DW General and AI General. I notice that threads, by and large, stop far sooner than they would have. I put that down to the lack of participants for various reasons and the 'Correct' answer flag. So much knowledge and information is not being shared.

True, a lot of the posts came from the NNTP side... but a lot also came from the web side... these forums are killing all spontaniety.

However, the killers are:

1/ Lack of NNTP

2/ Points

3/ Correct answers

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Advisor , May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009
I really only watch the Illy forum (and lately this forum as well) but what I've seen is that the rating system really matters for a few  (5?) of the regulars over there, who are now posting answers for every single question that comes up.  The quality of answers has gone up, but only from those 5 people who are shooting for the leaderboard...Is it a problem?  I don't know.  It's decreased the variety of responses, but it's also increased the quality...

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Advocate ,
May 19, 2009 May 19, 2009

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threads, by and large, stop far sooner than they would have.

I still maintain this was a deliberate aim of the system.

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Advocate ,
May 19, 2009 May 19, 2009

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I can definitely say that "answered" posts do discourage me from answering. Even if I have something to contribute, it seems to me that it's less likely to be read or seen, so why bother?  Or you may have a better answer--yet the first crummier one gets singled out. 

It's just not an improvement in practice.  Most changes aren't--that's why most companies, inventions, ideas, policies, and so on fail.  That's why people have a natural instinct to oppose change, most of us know instinctively that it fails more often than not.

The concept of "forum points" has been around for years. It has had it's chance, and it's been largely rejected by the market.  If it were genuinely helpful, every help, tech, or whatever forum would have had it implemented by now, and that's the bottom line.  Jive is just a semi-pretty looking (highly marketable) piece of crap.

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LEGEND ,
May 19, 2009 May 19, 2009

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This was all pointed out during the trial period and has been repeated literally dozens of times since.


Nobody likes it   —   It has no advantages to anyone   —    it can be abused by anyone    —   it annoys the hell out of me!

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Advisor ,
May 19, 2009 May 19, 2009

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IMHO...

No. No. N/A. No. No. Neither - they are pointless. Neither.

No.

I think the threads stop sooner due to the amount of time it takes to read and reply to anything via the Web. And the email system isn't ready for prime time, so it's no help.

However, the killers are:

1/ Lack of NNTP
2/ Points
3/ Correct answers

  1. AGREE
  2. Disagree. I don't think the point system kills discussions. Who outside of this forum pays attention to them?
  3. Possibly AND;
  4. Poor email implementation
  5. Poor Web performance

[Edit]

I said the email system is no help. It does help in one way. I am now using it to pick up reading from my last unread message in a thread! Sort of. The feature so blatantly missing in the Web interface itself. Still, it requires toggling between email client and browser. I was using Opera to avoid that, but my Opera emails are the ones that go into auto-repeat.

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Mentor ,
May 19, 2009 May 19, 2009

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I take the point system so seriously that I feel it it is my duty to start free point threads so everyone can share the wealth.

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Enthusiast ,
May 19, 2009 May 19, 2009

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so has the point system been re...

ah, nevermind. what's the point...

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Advisor ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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Go look at the Illustrator forum.  People over there are taking them seriously enough that they are arguing over them!

(can I have the ten?)

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Engaged ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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Jesseham wrote:

Go look at the Illustrator forum.  People over there are taking them seriously enough that they are arguing over them!

(can I have the ten?)

Haven't been there for the last couple of days but i don't remember the points being a hassle there? Any links? There was an idiot in the DW forums who was asking for points and slandering folks such as Al Sparber, who went out of his way to help said idiot (just before NNTP was shut off). I guess he got rebuked 'cos he packed his tent and vanished for a while. Back now tho'.... KIssiau or some such name.

PS: Here's five... i'm not feeling generous at the moment

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Advisor ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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Nothing that bad...  Really, people are just reminding the OP to give them points and defending their answer as the correct one despite a second correct (alternate) one being offered by someone else. 

No one over there has their second meatball yet...

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Enthusiast ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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How seriously do we take this point system?

serious enough to be one of the main factors that will lead to the downfall of these forums if not corrected. for some, that's very serious...

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Advisor ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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I really only watch the Illy forum (and lately this forum as well) but what I've seen is that the rating system really matters for a few  (5?) of the regulars over there, who are now posting answers for every single question that comes up.  The quality of answers has gone up, but only from those 5 people who are shooting for the leaderboard...

Is it a problem?  I don't know.  It's decreased the variety of responses, but it's also increased the quality...

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Engaged ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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Grateful for some links... doesn't sound like the old Illy forum... but sounds a lot like the DW one... ???

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Engaged ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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Jesseham wrote:

Is it a problem?  I don't know.  It's decreased the variety of responses, but it's also increased the quality...

"Increased the quality"? D'you mean 'decreased' quality or increased 'quantity'?

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Engaged ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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Dave... no points for you... much as i'd like to... you already have enough! The young lad below (Jesseham) needs a few...

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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I can only remember having seen anything about points in the Illustrator forum once, when one of the other helpers told the OP that no one cared about them.

I post as I always have, but I miss the richer threads that were in the days of the fair forums, and some good friends.

I may be missing out on some of the strangenesses because I follow fewer threads, owing to the merge between the platforms and, even more, to the increasing number of questions about issues with the latest versions.

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Advisor ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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No, I mean it's increased the quality.  People are trying harder for points.  It's also helped by the fact that images are so easily incorporated.

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Advisor ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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Oh and sorry to mis-represent myself and get points out of it.  I'm not as young as my avatar lets on...  My account was borken and split in two.  My post count is about 5 times higher in real life. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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Jesseham wrote:

No, I mean it's increased the quality.  People are trying harder for points.  It's also helped by the fact that images are so easily incorporated.

But you're wrong. The most helpful posters don't give a bucket about silly points. They (we?) know who they are. I know I never came to the old forum for points, and nothing has changed that. I come to help and to encounter new problems that encourage me to find solutions, improving my own knowledge. I also occasionally have a question.

Points may have increased the quantity of responses (some of which may be correct), but it hasn't produced better answers. If anything, allowing a post to be marked "answered" discouraged help.

In other words, like EVERY bucket change to the forum, points are a bad idea.

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Advisor ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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Well, I certainly can't speak for everyone, nor do I mean to say that everyone is only posting for points, but coming from the Illustrator Mac forum, I think the quality of answers has increased.  It might have to do with combining the Mac and Windows forums, it might also have to do with the ease of placing images.

Sorry if I was lumping everyone together there.  I meant no offense to anyone.

You're absolutely right though - points have increased the number of posts, and the signal to noise is definitely skewed toward noise.

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Explorer ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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serious enough to be one of the main factors that will lead to the downfall of these forums if not corrected. for some, that's very serious...

I take the Points System and the "Community Expert" labels so seriously that I absolutely refuse to contribute anything to the Adobe Product Forums anymore — and I will not do so until both of these obnoxious interferences to intelligent adult discourse have been removed.

I consider both the Points System and the "Community Expert" labels to be a personal affront to all of the rest of us.

I have continued to check in to Forum Comments about once a week to see if matters have improved but the intervals are getting longer and as a result I am rapidly losing interest in both Adobe and their products.

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Contributor ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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Points are POINTLESS...

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Enthusiast ,
May 21, 2009 May 21, 2009

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I take the point system so seriously that I installed an AdBlock+ script posted by Ramon Castaneda that eliminates all visible references to it.  No little red bars either (sometimes).

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Guide ,
May 22, 2009 May 22, 2009

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Michael D Sullivan wrote:


…an AdBlock+ script posted by Ramon Castaneda that eliminates all visible references to it.  No little red bars either (sometimes).

Sometimes?  You should only be seeing the points if you hover over the name of a poster, causing the yellow flag to drop down.  I haven't been able to catch that one.

The points in a user's profile page, below his photo, have been quashed in my latest version of the AdblockPlus filter.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
May 22, 2009 May 22, 2009

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How serious is it possible to take it when a thread can have 3 stars for helpful answers, all of them given as a punishment for Ramón and myself?

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/434881?decorator=print&displayFullThread=true

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