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Moderation and Thread Moving

Guest
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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I expressed a concern about moving thread from the Forum Comments (this thread:  http://forums.adobe.com/message/2223352#2223352 ) to another area of the forums.  The link still resides in the Forum Comments list.  I suggested that IF such a move were going to be made, folks should be aware that they are being taken AWAY from the Forum Comments area.  I don't feel this is an unreasonable consideration.  Yet, my entire post was summarily deleted without any mention that I had even existed.

Will someone please tell me why alerting the viewer that they are going to another area of the forum is such a heinous crime as to be fully deleted without comment?

hopper

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replies 162 Replies 162
Guest
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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Actually as a new user of many, many forums-- if anything I've only been offended by mods who decided to move a post from where I had originally decided to put it, for whatever reason.

And why the @#$% were the last two posts by me and dec3 just deleted?

To reiterate what I had said before it was censored by Big Brother's watchdogs, perhaps it's time to contact Adobe more directly to put an end to the moderator wars.

Obey the forum thought police.  Violators will be locked, deleted and banned.

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Advocate ,
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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And 'please pay more attention to where you are posting next time' isn't designed to humiliate? I just don't see how anyone can learn to find the right forum if they get wafted about by magic, leaving them thoroughly confused. Much better to tell them the correct forum and provide a link to it, which is what usually happened. People rarely get berated unless they seem to be asking for it.


(Except for poor Hopper of course).

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Guest
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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Seems to be a case of, "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with facts".

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Guest
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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Kath-H wrote:

And 'please pay more attention to where you are posting next time' isn't designed to humiliate? I just don't see how anyone can learn to find the right forum if they get wafted about by magic, leaving them thoroughly confused.

Yes, yes yes yes yes!  This is the equivilent of using force to correct someone vs asking them politely to correct themselves.  If you people were officers you'd be cuffing and forcibly relocating people to clear an area instead of first asking them to please relocate!  Criminal in the real world, stupid in the virtual.

Obey the forum thought police.  Violators will be locked, deleted and banned.

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Mentor ,
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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No its better to note they are in wrong forum, offer the the link to the proper forum or point to it on a screenshot of how to get to correct forum and leave it that no moving.

The problem with moving a thread is not the person getting more lost by dumping what the moderator feels is correct thread but dumping others who may click on the link only to find they are dumped in that forum as well.

If its to be moved then that thread in old forum should be made so that the notice of where its moved is all that you end up seeing you can not go further and you will not be dumped. in otherwords it should be tied strictly to that poster  no one else.

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Guest
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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See post #32

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Advocate ,
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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That's why I personally feel it's kinder to the poster to simply move a thread to where it really belongs. They have already asked the question. It's there and just waiting for an answer. So what if it ends up in the wrong place? Advise them of the issue, advise them the thread is being moved and move it to where it may get them the help they came to find.

This is where a major problem lies.

Say a new user posts in the wrong forum. Then someone goes and moves that thread. Then the new user comes back to this website, goes to the main menu, to that forum and then viola...their thread isn't there! So what do they do...they go back and duplicate their post as they didn't see it anywhere, so we're back to square one!

Yes, if the new user is subscribed to email they will see that someone has posted that they have moved their thread to the correct forum. But most people out there (including myself) do not like to have their inboxes flooded with crap from any websites, this one included.

And do to the crappy layout of this new forum software it is virtually impossible to go back and find your posts you have made without navigating through 10 screens, and we all know performing a search is out of the question.

I say the best thing to do is for a mod to post in a thread that it is in the wrong place, post where the person needs to go to get help, then lock that thread so as it can't be drug on and on any longer.

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Valorous Hero ,
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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Hi there

I respectfully disagree.

Ozzwoman9 wrote:

This is where a major problem lies.

Say a new user posts in the wrong forum. Then someone goes and moves that thread. Then the new user comes back to this website, goes to the main menu, to that forum and then viola...their thread isn't there! So what do they do...they go back and duplicate their post as they didn't see it anywhere, so we're back to square one!

Okay, my take on it is that a new user will be totally unfamiliar with the forums. As such, they won't know to turn off E-Mail notification. They will shortly see the E-Mail message and click the link in the message to view their post. Wherever that post happens to be parked.

Ozzwoman9 wrote:

Yes, if the new user is subscribed to email they will see that someone has posted that they have moved their thread to the correct forum. But most people out there (including myself) do not like to have their inboxes flooded with crap from any websites, this one included.

And do to the crappy layout of this new forum software it is virtually impossible to go back and find your posts you have made without navigating through 10 screens, and we all know performing a search is out of the question.

I subscribe to all forums I monitor so each post ends up in my In-Box. Most E-Mail clients have what is an apparently little known and little used feature that allows you do define an action to take when it receives a message. I have mine configured so that I have folders for each forum category I wish to monitor. If I don't wish to visit the forums to reply, I am able to delete the message from my In-box. I've also got rules for each folder so anything older than 30 days is automagickally deleted for me.

Because I operate this way I know instantly without even visiting the Web interface what forum and forum category the post came from. I know whether I am likely able to help or not and whether to discard or ignore the post. So I never have an issue with finding a post I've replied to and I certainly never have to navigate 10 screens to get there. Essentially I let the technology work for me. It seems you have a problem with doing that. Either you are incapable of configuring rules or you simply don't wish to deal with incoming messages. My personal guess is that it's the latter and not the former.

I don't take the view that messages from the support forums I monitor are crap. Most are pleas for assistance. To claim the messages from the forums are just Web Site Crap implies that you feel anyone posting isn't worthy of your time to stop and help. So I would ask why you visit the forums? If I'm a user that asks a question, I am delighted that I'm automatically subscribed to the thread so I don't have to go hunting for it.

I do admit that the search leaves a lot to be desired. But that's just the nature of searching. Meh, it is what it is. I seldom have to deal with it so it doesn't really affect me one way or the other.

Ozzwoman9 wrote:

I say the best thing to do is for a mod to post in a thread that it is in the wrong place, post where the person needs to go to get help, then lock that thread so as it can't be drug on and on any longer.

And I've noticed that when a thread is locked the typical 5 or 6 complainers begin inciting Jochem again. It's a viscious cycle.

I think we can all agree that we each take a different view of it. Fortunately, what I see here doesn't really affect me or my way of operating in the forums I participate in. I have yet to see any complaints from users for moving their threads. But I *HAVE* seen them post back to thank me for pointing them in the right direction.

I'm not sure if any statistics are present for this aspect, but it would be very interesting to track how many threads are visited by clicking an E-Mail link VS how many were visited by navigating the web interface. God help us all if all we had was the forum interface to navigate. I choose the faster approach.

Cheers... Rick

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LEGEND ,
Sep 03, 2009 Sep 03, 2009

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I am logging in only to express my absolute disapproval for the way two moderators are behaving in this particular thread. The arrogance of one of them, and the ignorance and lack of manners of the other are not only appalling. They are also completely opposite to the spirit of the message by Mr. Walsh in the Announcement on top of the page. Furthermore, they violate several norms in the Forum etiquette and best practices thread: they do not respect others, they have never assumed Hopper is acting in good faith, they do not attract and honor good knowledgeable people. From reading their arguments, it is also patently clear that they are not seriously trying to understand what she wrote and writes; on the contrary, they are constantly misrepresenting or misunderstanding her words.


They may have the force (I deliberately avoided using the word "power") to mutilate and suppress messages and even threads they don't like, and even to ban users, but brute force is not what a true Moderator (the capital M is deliberate, and it is in the honor of those whom we have lost) uses to moderate.

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Guest
Sep 05, 2009 Sep 05, 2009

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WebX people hated fusetalk and vice versa.


And we all hate jive.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 12, 2009 Sep 12, 2009

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Earlier in this thread, I wrote the following:


Pardon me if I seem insistent, but if the rules are not clear, you can't expect us users to follow them.


I may be too insistent, but the philosophy behind thread moving is everything but clear for me.


We have been repeatedly told in this same thread how useful, nice and polite it is to move threads to their "proper" forums instead of just directing a lost poster to the correct forum. And I was even rudely treated in this thread by two moderators for drawing attention to a moved thread they accused me of highjacking. Although anyone caring to follow the link I gave will see that the moderator of that forum did not delete my messages -i.e., he did not consider I was interrupting the thread- and that the OP was not happy with the moving of the thread to a different forum without being told.


However, this is not my point right now. What worries me is that I have just noticed this thread,

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/490158?tstart=0

where a user redirects the OP to what he thinks is the right forum, another user expresses his doubts about this not being the right forum, and a moderator simply locks the thread because it's not in the right forum (not very politely, but that's just my opinion), and doesn't move the thread at all.


Frankly, I don't understand. Clear rules are easy to follow; variable ones aren't. Or am I missing something?

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Guest
Sep 12, 2009 Sep 12, 2009

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I have to agree with you Claudio, the rules seem to be dynamic.  At one point, there is no grey area, only black and white and other times, nothing but grey.

With regards to the thread you linked to, I am curious where *would* be the right forum, given it spans multiple products?  I would think that the moderators would not want the poster(s) to "spam" the boards with similar threads, where one well placed thread could catch the eye of many visitors.

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Guest
Sep 12, 2009 Sep 12, 2009

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The poster did repost his question in Illustrator forum and received a few responses. I do agree with Jumpy and Claudio that the origional post should have just been left alone with the first response of telling him to go to Illustrator forum (he/she did).

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Guest
Sep 12, 2009 Sep 12, 2009

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Look you guys, the moderators do what they want. We are just underlings who don't count.


< Thinks – what was that Gandhi quote? >

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Guest
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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Just shut up and color

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LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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dec9 wrote:

The poster did repost his question in Illustrator forum and received a few responses. I do agree with Jumpy and Claudio that the origional post should have just been left alone with the first response of telling him to go to Illustrator forum (he/she did).

That's not my point at all. I was severely questioned here by suggesting that it would perhaps be simpler and better to continue using the traditional method of telling the poster where to post, and now we have an example of a thread that was not moved, but locked because it does not belong here. So my question is: are posts in the wrong forum going to be moved to the right one, or should we continue with the old method?

I ask because a post with a link to the right forum can look very silly once the thread has been moved there. Not counting the confusion to other users who may have posted believing -rightly or wrongly- that the thread was still in the original forum.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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Hi all

In my own opinion moderators should do what they feel is best for all concerned. In my own personal view, it would seem that what is in the best interest is to operate as has been suggested repeatedly here. Post with a reply that contains a link pointing to the estimated proper venue, then lock the thread.

Now before you all fall over with astonishment because a bone headed moderator suggested that or agreed with you, I'm going to also suggest that in my own view I do not believe that this is the most helpful way for the original poster. I simply believe that for this particular forum it's probably the best way to operate.

In the other fora where I moderate I have seen no indication other than several "thank you!" posts for moving the threads to where they should have been to begin with. Additionally, we will also frequently move a thread after it has a few replies and it becomes apparent that it really belongs in a different forum category. So for those fora I will still operate in this manner simply because it works. At least it does there. I'd stop doing it in a heartbeat if I felt it was confusing the issue, but thus far have seen no indication of it.

Cheers... Rick

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Guest
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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There were three different subjects to comment on in your post. I made the wrong choice to base my comment on.

What everything boils down to is that there are no written standards.

Anyways there is nothing really worth posting or reading about. I won't mention any names but they were right. In just a matter of months all the cohesiveness, atmosphere and life were sucked out of the forums. There is no sense or feeling of community.    

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LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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Hi there

If that is what happened in the fora you participate in, that's indeed a sad thing. Unfortunately I don't see those. I can only judge from my own frame of reference. My two products of Adobe's 80+ products. And for those, things only improved with the new forum software. Community is still present and as strong as it ever was.

Cheers... Rick

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Guest
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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omg, the logging out bug just blew away my post.

wonderful.   

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Guest
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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I manage my staff with a specific set of rules.  There are acceptable items, unacceptable items and fluid ones (not too many of those).  My staff knows exactly what to expect and whether or not there will be a positive or negative reaction.  When the rules are laid out, it's much easier to function within them!  On the occasions that I had to terminate employment, there was no surprise or shock, they knew where they stood and what the consequences were going to be.  I am not a difficult boss to work for, and in fact have been told this by many of both my staff and other departmental staff.  The difference is, I am up front and clear and I don't waffle on those items that cannot be or should not be bent.  I *will* bend in areas that it really makes no difference to the overall group.  There are many ways to get to Tipperary, as long as they get there, with quality, I won't bother them.

I think the same should be done in the forums.  All the moderators should be on the same page, doing the same things.  I am sure that because of personality, some things will be different, but the overall rules should be the same.  AND everyone, viewers and moderators should know the rules. Consistency is the key to success.

The previous moderators were pretty much on the same page.  You knew what was allowed, what wasn't.  Threads weren't moved/locked with great frequency.  Overall, it worked.  Why Adobe felt they needed to fix something that wasn't broken escapes me.

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Advocate ,
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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Because of the level of dissent IMO. People's requests/demands/complaints could not or would not be dealt with, so dissent had to be designed out. This has largely happened. I don't bother reporting problems any more and may others have given up too. Don't want to hear what's wrong, Mr Moderator? OK, then you can paddle your own canoe, mate.

It's as if you made a new rule for your staff - no arguing or disagreeing with the boss. Any off-topic remarks and it's tape over the mouth for you or banished to the stationery cupboard. Oh wait, maybe that is one of your rules (Winky, in case you read by email!)

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Mentor ,
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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There have been a couple of post from people that don't approve of having a since of life and community in Forums.

In fact as much as said That There should be no sense of Community on any forum. That the only reason to have a forum is look for information. And if they wanted frienship or comradeship  he would invite some friends over for diner. Your not supposed to get to know each other on computer.

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Advocate ,
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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See http://forums.adobe.com/message/2190178#2190178

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LEGEND ,
Sep 13, 2009 Sep 13, 2009

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jochemd wrote:

See http://forums.adobe.com/message/2190178#2190178

Yes, I read that carefully when it was posted. Seems all right but here it doesn't seem to be working as described. I fail to see the difference between the thread that was moved and caused the charging of two moderators against me, and the one that wasn't moved but locked.


Pardon me for being so obtuse.

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