Community Manager

Sticky

Introducing Adobe Substance 3D Stager and Dimension update!

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
June 23, 2021
54 replies
73513 views

Hi everyone! Jeanette here, lead product manager for Dimension. It's been a little while since I've had an announcement for the community, but I'm very happy to be able to break the silence on some exciting news.

Today we launched a new application - Adobe Substance 3D Stager! Stager is built by the same team that built Dimension with a shared foundation for some technology while also being a bit reimagined. Where Dimension was a general purpose application that was intended for those new to 3D to learn, Stager is a dedicated scene staging application that is more powerful for professional 3D artists while retaining it's approachability for those learning 3D.

So what are some of the key differences between Dimension and Stager?

Dimension was more general purpose where Stager is specifically part of the new Substance 3D Collection which offers multiple applications for an end-to-end 3D workflow including modeling, texturing, and staging.
The rendering engine has been updated and reworked to the Adobe Mercury Rendering Engine. This engine is multi-technique, including both real time and ray tracing in a single engine. It is built with entire new infrastructure for modernizing techniques, improving performance and scaling to be available on more hardware.
Stager's material system has been updated for a new version of the Adobe Standard Material definition with tons of new effects like displacement, subsurface scattering, dispersion, clear coat, sheen, anisotropy, and more.
Stager includes a variety of general new staging features including collision based layout, multi-camera resolution outputs, physical lights, and much more.

What does this mean for Dimension?

Dimension will continue to be available as part of Creative Cloud All Apps plans - there is no change to it's availability! To see Dimension Creative Cloud desktop go to settings > apps > and enable "Show older apps" setting.
Dimension doesn't have any major planned releases right now - we'll be putting new features into Stager, but we will provide support updates for Dimension!
You can open Dimension files in Stager to take advantage of all the new features - also try Stager out for a full 30 day free trial!

Want to learn more about everything? Check out some of these resources:

We're really excited about the opportunity to build a new family of 3D applications that work seamlessly to provide an end-to-end experience for modeling, texturing, and staging 3D models and scenes and we hope you enjoy the new Substance 3D Stager app!

--

Edit: 8/17

Thank you all for the great conversation on Dimension and Stager. It's clear there's a lot of passion and excitement for amazing staging apps, and I take my duty to the community seriously. Please know that all of your concerns about pricing, confusion on the Dimension status, and Stager future, have been escalated to our leadership teams and we're working on some possible improvements!

Here's a round up of the latest information based on some questions and discussion that have happened in various threads:

Dimension

Dimension is still part of Creative Cloud All Apps plan.
~~Dimension is currently hidden by deafult on Creative Cloud Desktop.~~
~~To see Dimension you must go to CCD > Preference > Apps > and enable "Show older apps"~~
~~The "Show older apps" option may be disabled by administrators for education and enterprise organizations.~~
~~We are actively working to REVERSE this so that Dimension is not hidden, as it is confusing and inaccurate.~~
Update 8/19: This is now reversed! Dimension is available by default and you no longer need to enable "Show older apps".
Dimension is NOT end-of-lifed, but we are not working on new features for it (at this time).

Stager

Stager is exclusive to the Substance 3D Collection plan.
There are currently not any single app plans for Substance apps - we are investigating this possibility!
It is not currently planned that any Substance apps will be added to the CC All Apps plans.
HOWEVER, the exception is that Substance 3D Collection is free for those with CC All Apps for Higher Education.
HOWEVER, the limitation is that Substance 3D Collection for Higher Education is available for Shared Device Licensing (SDL) and Feature Restricted Licensing (FRL). It is not yet available for Named User Licensing (NUL).
We hope to work on Named User Licensing for Higher Edu support, but I don't have a clear timeline on that. It's months at least. Unfortunately there's little we can do to accellerate this. Adobe licensing land is a bit complicated and we have people working on it!

As always I try to be as transparent as possible with the community, but there's limits to what I can say on a public forum. Everything is subject to change, and I will do my best to communicate as we move forward!

This topic has been closed for replies.

Show previous replies

G

GWJL

Participating Frequently

Hi Jeanette,

I don't really see separating 2D from 3D as a good practice - because most Designers out there (including Industrial Designers like myself) use both 2D, and 3D, and Creative Cloud is advertised to have "..20 plus apps that work together.." except the don't - if you want to use any 2D content you created with your CC subscription for 3D Render. I think we all know it's about wanting to double the subscription revenue.

I think what you might find is Designers choosing one of one of three routes:

> Use Stager/Substance & dump CC for opensource Image/Vector/& DTP like Inkscape, Gimp, and Scribus

> Keep CC for Image/Vector/DTP, and use free Blender for 3D

> Dump CC & Stager, and go Free & Opensource for all 2d & 3D.

Such a pity, as Dimension really is fantastic (though it stopped working with the latest update).

Ciellchan

Known Participant

I second this and to be honest Adobe is already losing a lot of consumers in the 2D graphics world too because they fail to acknowledge user needs and seem to be focused only on revenues. Dimension/Stager situation was and still is, obscene. We lost a program and no changes were made to the CC subscription price. Why?

I'm been asked more and more to design any graphic that is meant for digital consumption on Figma. I've even received Brandbooks in Figma and had a whole project of social media ads in Sketch. Illustrator is being used only for printed media. PS is being replaced by Procreate and so on.

I'm seeing a switch in the market and I guess it's because Adobe is failing to cater to users and because of that we are looking for alternatives.

itsMeJimmy

Participating Frequently

This is a good point...we have to go out to add and learn some of these new pieces at our cost...in the meantime, Adobe is just adding new things from the income we provide and then providing less for what we were paying. It's really just a slap in the face.

I dropped Adobe Stock this year and am very frustrated with this whole situation...plus, I just don't feel Adobe is in-touch enough to even address the issue...or are even aware it's an issue

Thomas Logan Art

Known Participant

Hope someone can help me drill down to some basic understanding with regard to Stager vs. Dimension, as I'm having a bit of a time getting this all straight in my head. I'm quite experienced in Photoshop but as new as they come to 3D. I just started trying to learn Dimension when all this Adobe Substance product hit.

Most of what I've read has implied Stager is by and large the upgraded Dimension. So, I'f I'm worried about getting too deep into Dimension (when it "might" be cancelled at a moment's notice) and want to just get ahead by jumping over to Stager, instead - I want to make sure I understand the financial side of it?

I'm a CC all apps member, so Dimension is part of what I already pay for. Am I clear, or correct in assuming that if I want to basically start using Stager, instead - it's not only something I have to pay additionally for, but it is also not available by itself. In other words, if all I want to use is Stager, I MUST purchase the FULL Substance plan at around $50 a month? Put another way, I am paying about $50 a month right now for the all apps plan, and to add this ONE app (Stager) I will essentially need to double what I'm paying to Adobe?!?

I just want to make sure I am not seeing or reading anything wrong. Do I essentially have a clear picture of the Adobe Substance situation?

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Ussnorway7605025

Legend

yes you pretty much have it correct but I'd also add Windows to your understanding

Thomas Logan Art

Known Participant

thanks for your response, although I wasn't quite sure what you meant by adding Windows to my understanding? I do use the Adobe Apps on an iMac as well as a PC, but pretty much stick to Windows for the 3D stuff so I can use the Nvidia GPU.

nickfrom

New Participant

Seems to me like if you pay for a software subscription part of the deal is that the developer continues to update and improve the apps. Stopping development on one of the apps means that our subscription just decreased in value.

D

Daniel DFF

New Participant

Stager is not a new Application, its an updated Dimension. Hence it should be included in the All App Plan. This is just a big smack in the face for already paying users

K

Ken Redler

New Participant

This product strategy is a mess. Leave it to Adobe to recharacterize "all" to mean "some". Because of the lack of GPU rendering and M1 compatibility, the writing is on the wall for Dimension as a separate product, despite its position as a sort of cult favorite and easy-to-use secret weapon for many design teams.

Bugs accumulate with every OS update. I currently have a trivial business card rendering that sometimes — but not always — locks up Dimension in a state where the rendering appears to be continuing, but never progresses beyond the first pass, after which CPU usage goes to idle, all windows become gray fields, modes can still be switched but the app can't be quit except via force-quit, and so forth. Fixing bugs in an aging, niche, legacy product like Dimension will never be a priority when new products driving envisioned new revenue streams are the team's primary remit.

As Jeanette has stated a few times on this forum, the product team certainly doesn't want to be working on two different apps with substantial overlap (and one of them likely with a creaky old codebase). That's logical. So Adobe should (1) unify Dimension with Stager (or reimplement its features within Stager's newer codebase); (2) Segment Stager into Standard and Pro configurations, with Standard providing at least the traditional Dimensions-equivalent feature set; (3) Move Stager Standard into the "CC All Apps" basket.

This achieves a few things: (1) single codebase to maintain for the product team; (2) Preserve the strategy of a new revenue stream for the "Substance Collection"

K

Ken Redler

New Participant

...

by holding key features out of Standard; (3) The Stager Standard successor to Dimension (call it Dimension, if you like) gets the automatic benefit of proper (eventual) M1 and GPU support, bug fixes, etc; (4) Standard becomes a natural and customer-positive upsell opportunity for Pro, features of which I’m sure Adobe would not hesitate to tout directly in the app itself (as opposed to the customer-hostile upsell of “I now have to buy Substance for my team because Dimension crashes with certain models or won’t render on M1 and gets minor bug fixes at a six month cadence”); (5) This low-key design team secret weapon, which is itself a nice upsell trigger for the “All” suite, is preserved, along with much customer goodwill.

D

defaulteefs9dpvo3f0

New Participant

That is a vey sad news. Dimension is a great software not just because of simplicity of use, but because of great quality renders easily achieved. I hoped it would be further developed and was waiting eagerly for some promised by you features like ie. animation, cloud rendering, etc. But instead, you now say you abondon it altogether and request to paying extra for something totally different, even if I still have to pay for Creative cloud ie. due to Photoshop. That is a poor marketing and poor PR. I am sorry to have to say that.

J

Jamain5E58

Participating Frequently

I've been on this page so many times angry, about Dimension being removed but NOW! are you seriously removing 3D feature from photoshop why can't you guys find a nother way of fixing these things and now you want us to buy into your new package.

For anyone that used Photoshop 3D

https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/3d-faq.html

What is eveyone thoughts about this?

H

horstb86866872

New Participant

We are an Austrian agency focused on print design with 10 employees and a cloud subscription for every single one of our workspaces. Although we aren’t focussed on 3D development, we were happy to integrate Dimension in to some of our workflows 2 years ago. We are incredibly exasperated that there will not be any further updates for Dimension from Adobe, since that means we will be forced to pay nearly twice as much for our already expensive cloud subscription if we want access to 3D. We have no need for high-end tools, as we only use it to create mockups, and Dimension had the functionality we needed to do this. If we needed high-end 3D tools, we would’t have used Dimension, but rather Maya, Blender, Cinema 4D or 3D Studio. We also dont want to have to train our employees to use these unnecessarily complicated tools, which is also a further cost for something we don’t need. Dimension filled the gap between pro 3D and 2D design and was very useful to us. And yes, we know, we are still able to use it. BUT: there are so many people out there who have been waiting for updates like gpu rendering on Mac, and many other functionalities that are very useful in daily business. We don’t mean complex tools like modeling, animating or anything like that, but simple things that would have made a good tool great. Today, graphic design trends often demand a blend of 2D and 3D – and Dimensions was ideal for this. What no one needs is another imitation of Blender, forcing yet another expensive subscription with complicated tools of which half are not needed or wanted. It is a shame that Adobe is turning their back on so many Dimension users. And if the functionalities of Stager or Painter would be the same like Dimension why should we then pay more or even nearly the same like adobe cloud? 70€ for cloud is really worth it. You get all Adobe Apps and they are updated regularly. That does not stand in relation to 40€ for Dimension plus a few upgrades. Feels like happy money making adobe. Do you really need that?

IDNHAB

Known Participant

Hi,

I can see what you are doing with the Substance app ecosystem, in the future we will probably see an "SC All apps plan" and usually those users do not have the same needs and/or profile as the CC apps users so that would be fair. I also know the reluctance from the Adobe leadership team to add single products instead of the All apps. Also adding that some software will have an EoL sooner or later due to changes in demand and evolution and company direction. Just an "educated" guess :). The NUL always take time to develop due to the complexity bringing in new software into new licensing models, #codeneedstoberewritten 🙂

Blubben och Blubbianerna!

L

LuminousWorks

Participating Frequently

Another set of voices to add to this conversation:

https://creativepro.com/an-open-letter-to-adobe-3d-for-designers/

R

Running Shadow

Participating Frequently

Thanks, this article sums it up well. For those who have embraced Dimension as a valuable work tool (like me) will limp along with an unsuported app that will soon die, then be forced cough-up or give up. Stager should be included in CC or at very least a single cheaper standlone licence. It seems like Adobe have also upset the whole Substance comunity too... bravo Adobe, bravo... simultanoesly stupid and greedy, with a big FU thrown in for good measure.

R

Running Shadow

Participating Frequently

My question is simple, so it may have been answered already, but so far I haven't found it:
Will Stager open Dimension .dn files?
and if not what are supposed to do with all our old Dimesnsion work going forward?
Thankyou.

R

Running Shadow

Participating Frequently

Wait, sorry, I just saw it!
Yes you can. Phew well, that's a relief.

Show more replies

Sign up

To post, reply, or follow discussions, please sign in with your Adobe ID.

Sign in to Adobe Community

To post, reply, or follow discussions, please sign in with your Adobe ID.

Scanning file for viruses.

This file cannot be downloaded