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thix2112
thix2112
Participating Frequently
May 3, 2023

P: Denoise AI and Pentax K3 MKIII DNG files - not working

  • May 3, 2023
  • 106 replies
  • 19037 views

I'm not seeing any noise reduction using Denoise AI on Pentax K3iii DNG files in Lightroom Classic v12.3. Any future solution to this issue?

Thanks

Tom

    106 replies

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    Rikk Flohr_Photography
    Community Manager
    Rikk Flohr_PhotographyCommunity Manager
    Community Manager
    May 4, 2023

    @thix2112  Can you confirm the behavior on "All eligible files", All Pentax KIII files or just some files?

    Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org
      Rikk Flohr_Photography
      Community Manager
      Rikk Flohr_PhotographyCommunity Manager
      Community Manager
      May 4, 2023

      I've opened a bug for investigation. I've downloaded two of your sample files to attach to the bug. 

      Thank you for the report.

      Note:  this thread will be updated when we have more information available. 

      Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org
        thix2112
        thix2112Author
        Participating Frequently
        May 4, 2023

        Tom here, the OP - Thanks for the attention to this issue. What I'm not seeing is the fairly dramatic noise reduction and "resolution enhancement" that I have seen on other demonstrations with other (non-Pentax) DNG files on places like YouTube. If I use the manual noise reduction sliders in LR on this DNG, that seems to produce a better result than from the AI process. I have some bird photography taken with my K3iii where I can post to further determine if the Denoise AI is doing what I would expect it to do - denoise and enhance feather detail.

        Dropbox link for Pentax K3iii DNG files:

        https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmp78s87hudoksn/2023-04-08_Birds-7907.DNG?dl=0

        https://www.dropbox.com/s/98caujm0w36dltz/High_ISO_TestShot_IMG8596.dng?dl=0

         

        Tom

         

         

        J
        Community Expert
        Jao vdLCommunity Expert
        Community Expert
        May 4, 2023

        Looked at the file and yes indeed. It appears Lightroom is only doing the raw details step (why the target cleans up in the moiré department) and not doing anything about the noise at all. For similar files from my cameras it will easily clean up the noise completely so it appears something is tripping up the noise reduction part.

        johnrellis
        johnrellis
        Legend
        May 4, 2023

        "Looked at the file and yes indeed. It appears Lightroom is only doing the raw details step (why the target cleans up in the moiré department) and not doing anything about the noise at all."

         

        The metadata of the denoised DNG indicates that LR thinks it applied Denoise:

         

         

        $ exiftool -a -G High_ISO_TestShot_IMG8596-Enhanced-NR.dng | grep -i enhance
[File] File Name                       : High_ISO_TestShot_IMG8596-Enhanced-NR.dng
[EXIF] Subfile Type                    : Enhanced image data
[EXIF] Enhance Params                  : Adobe Denoise 1 Amount 50
[XMP]  Enhance Details Already Applied : True
[XMP]  Enhance Details Version         : 218300416
[XMP]  Enhance Denoise Already Applied : True
[XMP]  Enhance Denoise Version         : 251658240
[XMP]  Enhance Denoise Luma Amount     : 50

         

         

         

         

          J
          Community Expert
          Jao vdLCommunity Expert
          Community Expert
          May 4, 2023

          Interesting! Yet it clearly doesn't do it at all. Also tested the file in camera raw and it gives the same result of no noise reduction whatsoever. I also downloaded the image you linked to from dpreview and it does do a little bit of reduction there, but very badly and patchy. Far worse quality than what I get on my images (not from the same camera) and very strangely patchy and actually killing structure that obviously belongs in the image. Here for example is some woodgrain in the image @johnrellis linked to that gets pasted over by enhance (run in camera raw in this case but there is no difference with Lightroom). It have never see it do anything like this with images from my camera. In fact it often finds detail you can't even see easily in the original. Here it just pastes over the grain. Clearly it is not tuned correctly for this camera.

           

          TheDigitalDog
          TheDigitalDog
          Inspiring
          May 4, 2023

          I got the file from Dropbox. 

          I'm not sure what to make of what I see. The difference between Denoise on and off is really small, but there is a difference. I see it cleaning up the moiré, so it is doing something. Is it doing enough, or what it should? I don't know. 

          I put the two screen captures into a folder on my Dropbox so you can view them in Photoshop up close. 

          https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zauhspigiqj5hxs/AAApoPfQ_eYThPzzjbUTer31a?dl=0

          Can you run one more test where you crank up ISO (or just under-expose what you shot a few stops, which is producing the noise)? 

          Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
          johnrellis
          johnrellis
          Legend
          May 4, 2023

          [This post contains formatting and embedded images that don't appear in email. View the post in your Web browser.]

           

          I downloaded a sample Pentax K-3 Mark III ISO 32000 photo from dpreview.com (not dead yet):

          https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/4949897610/pentax-k-3-mark-iii-sample-gallery/4691956898

           

          Denoise shows considerable improvement on it:

           

            TheDigitalDog
            TheDigitalDog
            Inspiring
            May 4, 2023
            quote

            I downloaded a sample Pentax K-3 Mark III ISO 32000 photo from dpreview.com (not dead yet):

            https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleries/4949897610/pentax-k-3-mark-iii-sample-gallery/4691956898

             

            Denoise shows considerable improvement on it:


            By @johnrellis

            And again (the ISO 32000 is moot), it IS super noisy because it is super under-exposed, which again is why I've asked the OP, who did such a great job exposing the example he provided, to do what the DP folks couldn't do.

            Look at what is really happening to this K-3 raw data:

             

            Now I'll get off my regular soap box about how high ISO has nothing to do with noise. 😜

            Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
            Rikk Flohr_Photography
            Community Manager
            Rikk Flohr_PhotographyCommunity Manager
            Community Manager
            May 3, 2023

            Would you be able to supply us with a sample file that does not exhibit noise reduction?

            Rikk Flohr: Adobe Photography Org
            thix2112
            thix2112Author
            Participating Frequently
            May 3, 2023

            Hello Rikk. Thanks for your response. Just took this high iso DNG with my Pentax K3iii. I imported into Lightroom Classic v 12.3 and saw no difference in the Denoise preview window and no change to the resulting enhanced DNG. I can't seem to upload the DNG. It keeps getting rejected with an error. I responed to you email with the attachment if that works.

            Thank you.

            Tom

            thix2112
            thix2112Author
            Participating Frequently
            May 3, 2023

            Having a hard time sending due to size. Sent email with link to iCloud for DNG.

             

            Tom

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