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Participating Frequently
February 3, 2018
Answered

8 Core Dual Xeon v 12 Core Dual Xeon - Premier Pro

  • February 3, 2018
  • 9 replies
  • 8728 views

So I'm halfway through completing my HP z600 workstation and I wanted to know your thoughts on the best cpu out of the following for video editing and a little after effects

Dual Xeon X5675 (12 cores total) at 3.06ghz

Or

Dual Xeon X5672 (8 cores total) at 3.2ghz)

These are the two fastest CPUs my system and budget can take.

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer JEShort01

    Samtastico,

    Definitely go with the Dual Xeon X5675 for the two options you mention. The extra cores will help a lot more overall with Premiere Pro CC with workflows that include 4K media. If you are concerned that you might have a workflow or workflows that will not benefit from the full suite of 24 threads (dual Xeon 6 core x 2 Xeons x 2 for Hyperthreadding) then simply monitor your task manager performance tab to see how fully you are loading your current CPUs (same # of threads, but significantly slower clock speed).

    For the paltry price involved, your upgrade plan seems very reasonable to me.

    Regarding SSD throughput speed, I'd suggest upgrading the CPUs first and seeing how it works. If some workflows are fully utilizing all cores/threads of both CPUs, then it is unlikely that your SSD is a bottleneck. And if you are I/O bound to your SSD, I'd suggest going with another identical SSD and doing a RAID 0 on them. Yes, it's more risky for data loss, but you should have backups of any important files anyway.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    9 replies

    Participating Frequently
    February 8, 2018

    The X5675s have been ordered so I will see if the SATA II SSD can keep up or if it is what the bottleneck was. 

    Participating Frequently
    February 9, 2018

    These are my numbers after the CPU upgrade to the X5675s

    160,"129","48","330",PremiereVersion:,12.0.0.224


    there are my numbers before ..

    157,"140","45","424",PremiereVersion:,12.0.0.224
    Legend
    February 9, 2018

    Thank you, Samtastico, for the update. Although those Disk I/O and MPEG-2 CUDA-enabled scores are within the margin of error, the MPEG-2 software-only score and the H.264 Blu-ray score are just what I predicted. And sure, you could have gotten even better scores with an entirely new 6c/12t build – but it would not have been worth the cost and trouble, especially given insanely high prices for the GPU and RAM.

    Randall

    Participating Frequently
    February 6, 2018

    After a number of tests the SSD speeds are not the bottleneck as a the read / write speed while renderend  didn't go over 6 MB/s and the CPU maxed out at 90% to 100% on all threads.

    My conclusion is that a faster CPU would benifit performance in render times but since the I/0 or RAM speeds were not maxed out or even close they would not be the main factor  improvement.

    Bill Gehrke
    Inspiring
    February 6, 2018

    OK

    But by tomorrow expect a Private Message (PM) from me with something new, about something old, that might be helpful.  Very busy day today

    Participating Frequently
    February 6, 2018

    Now I am intrigued!

    JEShort01Correct answer
    Inspiring
    February 6, 2018

    Samtastico,

    Definitely go with the Dual Xeon X5675 for the two options you mention. The extra cores will help a lot more overall with Premiere Pro CC with workflows that include 4K media. If you are concerned that you might have a workflow or workflows that will not benefit from the full suite of 24 threads (dual Xeon 6 core x 2 Xeons x 2 for Hyperthreadding) then simply monitor your task manager performance tab to see how fully you are loading your current CPUs (same # of threads, but significantly slower clock speed).

    For the paltry price involved, your upgrade plan seems very reasonable to me.

    Regarding SSD throughput speed, I'd suggest upgrading the CPUs first and seeing how it works. If some workflows are fully utilizing all cores/threads of both CPUs, then it is unlikely that your SSD is a bottleneck. And if you are I/O bound to your SSD, I'd suggest going with another identical SSD and doing a RAID 0 on them. Yes, it's more risky for data loss, but you should have backups of any important files anyway.

    Cheers,

    Jim

    Legend
    February 6, 2018

    Jim,

    Now that's one of the most sane suggestions that I've seen in this discussion thus far. An upgrade to CPUs that have the same # of cores and threads, but at significantly higher all-core Turbo clock speeds, for such a minuscule cost is a practical no-brainer. Worry about the disks and GPU later on, when costs become more reasonable. Sure, such a CPU upgrade would not have brought its overall performance level to that of a current single-CPU 6c/12t rig – but in this case, if Samtastico was to build a completely new rig around an i7-8700K, he would have spent a lot more money than what would have been justified by the performance increase because he would have needed to purchase not only the CPU, but also a new motherboard and DDR4 system RAM which currently is insanely expensive.

    If Samtastico went with dual X5672s, he would not have gained sufficient overall performance with 4k video editing to justify even that minimal cost. In fact, he would have been downgrading from his current 12c/24t system to an 8c/16t system.

    Participating Frequently
    February 5, 2018

    That is some great information.

    I think the only thing to check is if the encoding saturates my I/0 capacity on the SSD II channel 

    Then I'll be pretty much maxed out.

    Participating Frequently
    February 5, 2018

    Other than building a new system is the best way to move forward attaching the SSD to a PCIe slot which should increase the possible speeds to 5GB/s and upgrade to a pair of xeon X5675?

    On CPU bench this shows the a dual X5675 would fall between a 6700k and AMD Ryzen 1700x

    Legend
    February 5, 2018

    Not really. You can't really do much with that system because the PCIe slots are severely limited in their bandwidth. If you use the PCIe x4 slot (the one located between the first and second full-length PCIe 2.0 x16 slots on your motherboard) for a PCIe SSD adapter, your SSDs will become even slower than SATA II because the PCIe slots are restricted to PCIe 1.0 bandwidth (one PCIe 1.0 lane is limited in theoretical throughput to only 2.5 Gbps, or about 250 MB/second). And attempting to use the secondary x16 slot will steal PCIe 2.0 lanes from the chipset's IOH (Northbridge), since the LGA 1366 CPUs such as yours do not have an integrated PCIe controller at all. Plus, most PCIe to SATA SSD adapters are only PCIe x1 cards, which won't work well in your system: The cards will fit and work, but the throughput will be significantly slower than your current SATA II connection (the only PCIe slot that might deliver anywhere close to the true maximum throughput of a modern SATA III SSD would be the x4 slot that's closest to the CPU and memory slots). And third-party SATA controllers are more trouble than they're worth: You must install the separate drivers for the card, and pray for the best.

    Participating Frequently
    February 5, 2018

    I will do.

    At the moment I have ...

    Dual Xeon L5640

    36gb DDR3 10600r RAM

    256 SSD Samsung 850 Evo

    750ti graphics card

    The rest is pretty much standard but I'll run the test

    Thank you

    Legend
    February 5, 2018

    Now that you're already running Windows 10 on that system, do note that you already have 12 total CPU cores (with 24 processing threads) in your current PC (albeit at low Turbo-boosted clocks of only 2.53 GHz). In Premiere Pro two quad-core X5672s at a Turbo'd speed of 3.46 GHz would have only improved the responsiveness of the interface but would not have improved the rendering or exportiing performance much. Two hexa-core X5675s would have improved overall performance over your current L5640s due to the 5675's all-core Turbo'd clock of 3.33 GHz. (Note that I listed actual all-core Turbo speeds in these CPUs while you listed only the base CPU speeds.)

    The questions now become "Is this increased level of performance really worth the higher cost?" and "Would I be wasting my money on the two cheaper options that might not make much if any improvement whatsoever over my two current CPUs in rendering performance?"

    And even after the upgrades, you'd still be let down by slow disk I/O performance even with an SSD (which, by the way, is specced to deliver read/write speeds of 540/500 MB/second but will actually produce results of only about 275/256 MB/second due to the limitations of SATA II). And stick with the current GeForce GTX 750 Ti for that vintage workstation, as any newer GPUs would have cost you far more money than what their real-world performance increase (as installed and configured in your vintage workstation) justifies.

    By the way, I am guesstimating that your system as currently configured would produce a CPU-only ("software-only") MPEG-2 DVD export score in the PPBM suite that's roughly equal to that of my newer (currently in storage) i7-7700 (non-K) quad-core PC: around 460-ish seconds. That's about at the bottom end of all of the dual-CPU PC configurations in that PPBM8 site as listed by CPU - and that vintage workstation is more trouble than it's worth as you get a behemoth with 12 total CPU cores and 24 total processing threads that performs no better than a newer system with only four total CPU cores and only eight total processing threads. To use full-sized US-market family sedans as an analogy, it's like you would be entering a 1991 Chevy Caprice (base model) with its underpowered 5.0-liter 170-horsepower V8 engine in a race against a 2017 Chevy Impala LT (the mid-level trim version) and its base 2.5-liter 196-horsepower 4-cylinder engine.

    Participating Frequently
    February 4, 2018

    My last upgrade is to the X5675. HP did release an uodafed bios for security late 2016. I'm running Windows 10 pro and it's working quite well.

    Don't be so hard on a guy who is trying the best with what he's got. Sometimes a £2000 rig is out of reach of some people. Still it shouldn't stop them from working with what they have to develop their video production and editing skills.

    Participating Frequently
    February 4, 2018

    However for the purposes of social media video encoding etc and from a business perspective the ROI is fantastic. The £300 that was used to build this system will make me many times that amount where as a midrange newer system may do things slightly quicker the depreciation in the first 6 months is likely more than my whole build 

    At the moment I get 1 to 1 render times using 2k and 4k footage and since it's for social media and YouTube the source bitrate does need to be at a Red cam level.

    Just looking for the best upgrade path with what I have.

    Legend
    February 4, 2018

    At this point your upgrade path is absolutely nothing. Especially since newer GPUs won't work properly on it since they require a UEFI system while that system of yours is AFAIK legacy BIOS based. Plus, any CPU upgrades for that socket, while seemingly "inexpensive", still cost you more money than what their performance benefit delivers.

    And did I forget to mention that using a PC that's that old for anything Internet is now a severe security risk? You see, the reason why you paid this little because that PC is now on the verge of total obsolescence. Windows 7, the most recent version of Windows that's supported in that PC, will turn EOS (End Of Support) in only 23 months (less than two years). And when an OS goes EOS, the major antivirus companies will cease supporting that OS as well. As a result, your old PC will become increasingly vulnerable to malware and outside hackers, and those exploits will not be patched at all after the EOS date.

    Bill Gehrke
    Inspiring
    February 4, 2018

    Both of those Xeon's are End-Of-Life so it extremely difficult for me to recommend either one.  Iwould not be surprised if the single new 6-core i7-8700 would beat those old Xeons.  But if you already have that HP z600 I can sympathies with your intentions so sort of arbitarily go with the 12 cores since you only have minor usage of After Effects.

    Participating Frequently
    February 4, 2018

    There is  a big difference in price. The i7-8700 costs around £300. This is about the same as my whole HP Z600 build with two xeon x5675s   .

    According to a recent benchmark test adobe premiere pro only really utilises around 8 Cores - 12 cores before the benefits of extra cores really drops off.

    Thank you for your help

    Legend
    February 4, 2018

    It's not just the processing power. It's all of the other I/O parts of the system as well. You see, your old system cannot sustain more than about 270 MB/second from any of its SATA ports because they are only SATA II compliant. And the primary PCIe slot is only PCIe 2.0 compliant, which will bottleneck most of the newer GPUs from the GTX 1060 upwards. And any PCIe x1 or x4 slots in that system are only PCIe 1.0 compliant. These three combined increase the load even further on the CPU, which negatively impacts CPU-only performance. And to boot, dual-CPU systems have greater latencies to deal with than any single-CPU system.

    You got what you paid for – a system that's slower and less powerful than many newer single-CPU systems and will become obsolete and useless in a couple of years because it cannot support newer, more secure and better-supported technologies, in other words. And it has now gotten to a point that you will have to spend an astronomical amount of money just to stay even minimally current, let alone be prepared for the immediate future, because of the current stratospherical pricing of several critical components in high-performance PCs.