What PC to build?

Just to be clear, I'm pretty certain HP is telling me that using 3 equal sticks in here puts it into triple-channel mode. MemTest86+ is reporting the board as triple-channel, too. I "think" the HP diagnostic reported it that way as well. (Maybe those are just reporting the CPU?)

Yes, I know that seems odd for a motherboard with four memory slots. I was very confused about that at first, too.

This is why I feel it may not be such a bad system. And in addition to supporting triple-channel memory, it has an 8-thread Xeon (as opposed to the 4-thread Xeon that was in my previous HP workstation).

Maybe that odd four-slot board configuration that supports triple-channel operation when using three memory modules is where there are "imperfections" and why the HP tech suggested staying with three modules and triple-channel operating mode. (I will try to ask if him when he works tomorrow evening.)

Jay

I'm back to my original question: I have a machine that supports triple-channel. It has four memory slots. It came with 4 x 2GB for 8GB. Until I spring for 12GB of RAM consisting of 3 x 4GB, I want to decide whether I'm better off "removing" the fourth memory stick to bring it down to 3 x 2GB for 6GB that will run in triple-channel mode, or whether I should leave that fourth stick in so I have 8GB running in dual-channel mode.

I know it depends on what I'm doing. I'm doing relatively simple videos in Premier Pro, outputting to AVI, maybe processing in Virtual Dub, converting AVI to FLV in Squeeze, and using Encore to create DVD images.

I have a couple votes saying to go with the 8GB. Maybe I should leave it at that. I'm double-checking partly because the HP tech who was helping me felt pretty strongly that 6GB (or 12GB) and thus triple-channel might make the machine run more stable. I don't know where he got that. He seemed to have read or heard somewhere that the particular system I have had some issues when not running in triple-channel mode. It may have just been his long-shot way of reaching to find a reason that I was getting system freezes before we replaced all the hardware and it went away.

It seems I should probably stay with 8GB in dual channel until I can go to 12GB in triple channel. Agreed?

Thanks.

Thanks, Bill, that's very informative, and consistent with what I've been told by an expert today by phone, too. That is worth getting the additional RAM to me.

So, if I may please ask, until I go to 12GB, are you in the camp that says I'm better off with 6GB in triple-channel mode or 8GB in dual-channel? (I own four 2GB sticks right now and there are four slots.)

Jay

Guys, I have half an hour to decide on the 12GB of RAM now (if I want it in time for installing CS5 tomorrow), or whether to wait a little while. Based on what I'm doing, will I suffer much if I stay with 6GB or 8GB a little while? I'm seeing varied opinions. Some say that even at 6GB or 8GB I could see some serious compromises with some of the work I'm doing and that 12GB will be substantially faster/better overall. But one respected advisor says to "try it" with the 6GB or 8GB and just look at the CPU utilization in Task Manager to see if most of my processes are even using most of that 6GB or 8GB or not.

Sorry to press the issue but right now balancing my time while working and deciding on the little bit of money are both important priorities at the moment.

What to you think?

Jay

Sounds good.

I assume when you say it can become a "render box" later when I get another system, you also/mainly mean "encoding" box. I am still learning the lingo but when I ask about whether the GTX-470 and MPE will save me time on those long exports to AVI and so forth, I'm told it only helps with render but not encoding and that those long time-consuming processes are encoding. I assume we're just getting into sematics here and that I'd use a secondary machine for those long processes like export to AVI? Or is that not exactly right? (I will, of couse, have to copy files across the LAN first, and then back.)

Jay

Eric,

Thanks so much. I hugely appreciate it.

I don't know if and when I'll ever get into HD.

I mainly output to the web and DVD at present. It's mainly marketing, training, and fund-raising presentations. Though, of course, I never know how much more we'll advance.

I have a video guru out-of-state who I FTP or send files to on an external hard drive who processes our work with AE to improve on it and I believe our next plan is for him to set me up with some automated processes and workflow to do with AE no my end, but I don't expect (based on my very limited knowledge) that it will be the kind of work taxing a 12GB setup. We adjust lighting or color balance or whatever it would be called, key out the chroma-key screen and replace it with an image, and so forth. We will also be getting into a little 3D and some animation, which will be mostly done on his system.

I assume you wouldn't be over concerned from this minimal input I've been able to provide so far that I'd be running into problems with 12GB, correct?

Thanks again!

Jay

Man, I just realized that if I'm right that the HP machine takes a RAM that has specs that are "exclusive" to HP, well, that's yet one more insane constraint that makes HP machines that much less attractive.

I'm convinced.

So, now that I've learned a great lesson for the future, I'm still hoping you can please share your opinion on my preceding question until I have more cash for building a new machine.

Of course, $750 could go significantly towards a new machine.

I just want to get back to work for now, though, really. I have been suffering downtime too long. So, either way, a new machine will have to go gradually.

So, add the 12GB or stay with... 6GB triple-channel or 8GB dual-channel?

Thanks again!

Jay

Okay, I appreciate that... thought that's kind of one of those non-answer anwers, isn't it? I know it's a subjective thing, of course, but it can't be that illusive of a question.

Bill? Harm? Please?

(And by the way, can't anyone give me any consolation about my z400 at all? I dont' overclock anyway. Similar core as i7. Triple-channel. All the right supporting hardware that I added. How bad can it be? Is one benchmark system enough to judge, really, without taking all the other specs into account?)

Thanks again!

Jay

Gentlement, if I may ask quickly here: I do have that z400 (I'm a bit deflated now, after having recently become encouraged that it's not such a bad system at all, but that's another matter ).

Triple-channel. Four memory slots.

It came with 8GB RAM. I plan to toss it and put in 12GB consisting of 3 x 4GB (in triple channel). I found the right memory from Kingston via CDW for about $750. I'm installing CS5 tomorrow when it arrives. The machine has an F3 for the OS/apps, an F3 for swap, and three F3 drives in a RAID 5 array for data (with a top-of-the-line LSI RAID controller -- 8888ELP). GPU is GTX-470 Superclocked+ from EVGA.

I'll be using Premiere Pro for video production -- our own in-house business presentations... not a lot of non-stop production work (we're not a production company) but time sure is money for me when doing this work (and waiting on the machine).

The question is whether my going to the 12GB of RAM is a good use of funds.

Thanks.

Jay

I've become a bit of an expert on this subject lately. I own an HP workstation that went bad under warranty and got a replacement refurb that's an upgrade. I then wanted to upgrade the power supply and get specs on the rest of the machine, and looked hard at building my own machine from scratch.

There are pros and cons.

The specs of a z400 are not so bad at all: Xeon (same foundation as i7, though I don't know which level of i7), triple-channel. Not so bad. Prices are on their site and I'm sure you'd do considerably better at CDW (or elsewhere). The tech support with an HP workstation is pretty amazing in one sense: they're very accessible 24/7 with little if any wait times, will stay on the phone with you for hours without a peep and hold your hands and bend over backwards to help you in any way possible, and will replace questionable parts in the wink of an eye when you have a warranty to cover it (they recently replaced the mobo and CPU in the refurb machine -- onsite in one day -- when I had freezes even though it may have been the GPU and I hadn't even replaced that yet).

A considerable amount of their hardware is propriety, yet tech support has precious little knowledge about details/specs of various components. For instance, they told me for days -- a supervisor and three different techs -- that it's a standard ATX case and power supply and simple to put in my own larger after-market PSU... yet it turned out that it's a propriety PSU in terms of how it mounts into the case and the pin-out at the system-board plug. And, there are no larger PSU's to be had that will fit/work in the machine. To run a GTX-470, I ended up using a second, external PSU just for the GPU.

Which is actually working fine.

The case handles the cooling with that GPU just fine, as hot as the GPU is.

I looked into moving things into a Cooler Master case, until one of the more senior techs at HP told me too much is proprietary to make that feasible -- fan controls, power-button controls, etc.

Upgrading RAM to 12GB using 3 x 4GB has to be done with Kingston memory. Nobody else but HP and Kingston make compatible RAM for that machine. Buying it from HP costs over $1,500. Kingston from an online discount retailer it's about half that. It has unbuffered RAM with error correction. It's 1333 RAM running at 1066 (CPU's limit), but from all the research I've done that's a limitation that's really not that noticeable in daily operation. (I don't know how different that is with video production.)

If you want to look into it, carefully differentiate between what should come with the stock machine from HP (or Dell, which I know nothing about) and what you upgrade on your own.

Maybe in the end the savings with HP (or Dell) and even the warranty aren't worth the limitations. I'd compare costs on the base machine to see.

Building your own takes time to make sure everything is compatible, whereas you can get a stock machine from HP and easily add, on your own, a better GPU, RAID controller, upgraded RAM, hard drives (as many as will fit, which is not many in a z400 but for me it was enough -- five hard drives and an optical drive), and just go to work, even knowing you have very good warranty support if you got it with a good warranty offered by HP.

I hope that helps.