Color Problems with CS4 Upgrade

Howard, <br /> <br /> Your post is really difficult to read, Quotes are indistinguishable from text. <br /> <br /> Sorry, it's just not practical for me to perform your suggested experiment and, also, of dubious value the instant you introduce a bad profile. Totally irrelevant to my workflow and, besides, Bridge on my machine spans across the whole width of <b>both</b> monitors. The Preview panel is on the right, occupying the entire area of the primary monitor. It's impossible to "launch Bridge just on my primary monitor. <br /> <br />c <a href="http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1GfLN8WldUcroSADgSsVrSlwnFf0" /></a> <img alt="Picture hosted by Pixentral" src="http://www.pixentral.com/hosted/1GfLN8WldUcroSADgSsVrSlwnFf0_thumb.jpg" border="0" /> <br />c Low-res, lowest quality JPEG screen shot. <br /> <br /> The colors in Bridge, however remain the same in the CONTENT panel on the right-hand side and the PREVIEW panel on the left. They're also the same when the image is opened in Photoshop, regardless of which monitor it resides in. <br /> <br /> [EDITED formatting]

Ramón, I have an experiment for you that will either tell Ray and I that we have a setup problem or that CS4 has a bug. If you choose to help us, try the following:

1. Setup your primary monitor with a totally different color profile. Something that makes your images look noticeably different between your two monitors.

2. Launch Bridge CS4 in your primary and use Filmstrip mode, make the Preview panel image about the same size as the Content panel image(s).

3. Drag the Bridge window from your primary to the secondary monitor. Note that when you release the mouse button the Content images snap to the color profile on the secondary monitor. However, the Preview image does not change (in this case means it does not snap to the different profile) and is noticeably different! They should be the same!

If you see no changes, comparatively speaking, between your Content and Preview then Ray and I have something different in our setup. However, if you confirm that they are different then I believe this points to a software bug in CS4. The color difference in the Preview panel is the same that I see in Photoshop and I believe is the same that Ray is seeing as well.

Thanks in advance for helping!

I've used dual monitors for many years. I see absolutely no change when moving any image from one monitor to another in Photoshop 7.0.1 through 11 (CS4). Photoshop is smart enough to read the profile for each monitor on the fly.

HI> Although I'm new to the Mac platform, that has been my experience also.

Even when I place half of the image in one monitor and the other half in the other one, Photoshop uses the correct monitor for each respective half of the image.

HI> I agree, for CS3 and Lightroom that is how it works for me too.

My response to Ray's question ("Where does photoshop assign a primary monitor?") has absolutely nothing to do with monitor profiles, only with which monitor will be the primary monitor, i.e. the one that hosts the menu bar with the Apple menu.

That is what you can change in the Display Preferences > Arrangement (Mac System Preferences).

HI> Correct and I agree. But I believe Ray had that setup correctly to begin with, unless I did not understand him.

The one thing that did change in CS4 is that image files now will always open on the primary monitor. In previous versions of Photoshop, you could just move an image to the secondary monitor, close it, and it or the next image would open on your secondary monitor too. That is not possible in CS4, at least in the current version.

HI> My observation as well.

However, the monitor profile used on each monitor respectively remains the correct one as set in Display Preferences > Color.

Photoshop knows how to apply each monitor profile to each monitor, unless the user has messed that up in Display Preferences > Color.

HI> As stated, CS3 and Lightroom do apply colors correctly. CS4 does not.

In Edit > Color Settings, you should be set to the Adobe Color Engine (ACE), not to Color Sync.

HI> All my observations with CS4 have used ACE. I was getting frustrated and the ColorSync thing was an experiment to see if anything changed.

In my experience, the Apple CMM, Color Sync, has been unreliable for a long time. I just avoid it. (There are other legitimate uses for the ColorSync Utility, such as repairing profiles [Profile First Aid], visualizing and comparing their gamuts, etc.)

If both monitors are accurately calibrated and profiled, and if the appropriate monitor profiles are selected for each monitor separately in Display Preferences > Color, Photoshop will use them correctly on each monitor, in my experience.

HI> CS4 does not seem to work the same way. In fact, if you bring up the images in Bridge CS4 on my setup, the filmstrip version of the image will have the proper color profile (when I move it back and forth from one monitor to the other) and the selected preview image will not! I believe this is a bug in CS4! CS4 should apply the same color profile to each image in Bridge regardless of which monitor I move the window to.

Something is going wrong in Ray's setup, but there are not enough details to tell what. Screen shots of all the settings would be helpful.

HI> I'm not sure how your monitors are setup. Perhaps you have two monitors that are nearly the same and therefore your color profiles are close enough to not see the difference that Ray and I see. My monitors are setup correctly and I believe that Ray's are too.

Even the cheapest calibrator puck will produce a more accurate profile than can be achieved through Apple's built-in or any other eyeball calibrator like SuperCal.

HI> I use Graytag McBeth. However, even if I did not use any calibration, I should see the same results in the same window for Bridge CS4, regardless of how far the profiles were off! Comparing that with CS3 and Lightroom makes me believe that this is a software bug in CS4 not a setup issue.

Howard,

NOTE: I'm posting this to clear up any misunderstanding my previous post may have inadvertently created.

I've used dual monitors for many years. I see absolutely no change when moving any image from one monitor to another in Photoshop 7.0.1 through 11 (CS4). Photoshop is smart enough to read the profile for each monitor on the fly.

Even when I place half of the image in one monitor and the other half in the other one, Photoshop uses the correct monitor for each respective half of the image.

My response to Ray's question ("Where does photoshop assign a primary monitor?") has absolutely nothing to do with monitor profiles, only with which monitor will be the primary monitor, i.e. the one that hosts the menu bar with the Apple menu.

That is what you can change in the Display Preferences > Arrangement (Mac System Preferences).

The one thing that did change in CS4 is that image files now will always open on the primary monitor. In previous versions of Photoshop, you could just move an image to the secondary monitor, close it, and it or the next image would open on your secondary monitor too. That is not possible in CS4, at least in the current version.

However, the monitor profile used on each monitor respectively remains the correct one as set in Display Preferences > Color.

Photoshop knows how to apply each monitor profile to each monitor, unless the user has messed that up in Display Preferences > Color.

In Edit > Color Settings, you should be set to the Adobe Color Engine (ACE), not to Color Sync.

In my experience, the Apple CMM, Color Sync, has been unreliable for a long time. I just avoid it. (There are other legitimate uses for the ColorSync Utility, such as repairing profiles [Profile First Aid], visualizing and comparing their gamuts, etc.)

If both monitors are accurately calibrated and profiled, and if the appropriate monitor profiles are selected for each monitor separately in Display Preferences > Color, Photoshop will use them correctly on each monitor, in my experience.

Something is going wrong in Ray's setup, but there are not enough details to tell what. Screen shots of all the settings would be helpful.

Even the cheapest calibrator puck will produce a more accurate profile than can be achieved through Apple's built-in or any other eyeball calibrator like SuperCal.

Well I tried the ColorSnyc Utility, which allows you to select the default profile, but that did not solve the problem. Then I always go back and ask myself why CS3 and LR do it right and CS4 does not? I've been searching the web but can not find anything that helps!

>Where does photoshop assign a primary monitor

Photoshop does not.

>or how can this be changed?

At the OS level. For instance, on a Mac you use Display Preferences to do it.

Howard, this sounds identical to what I'm seeing. I also have two monitors (both calibrated), and my images in PS CS4 open up on the Apple monitor. They actually look fine there, but when I move to the monitor I use for editing (LaCie 526) I notice the change. PS CS3 opens directly to the LaCie monitor. Where does photoshop assign a primary monitor, or how can this be changed? Thanks for your response.

I have the same problem with CS4. I'm using Lightroom 2.2 as the basic tool and Photoshop for more detailed work.

If I compare LR to CS3 on the same monitor the images look identical. However, if I run the same test on CS4 I get an image similar to what Ray Knight describes!

I have a duel monitor system. I believe the problem for me is how CS4 handles monitor profiles when I move the image from one monitor to the other. I use a laptop LCD and an external high-res 21". Both are calibrated but have significantly different profiles.

CS4 always defaults to opening the image on my laptop - my primary monitor, so the first thing I do is move it to my external monitor. However, I notice that CS4 does not recognize the monitor change and therefore uses the same profile for the laptop monitor - which results in a poor looking image. If I save it back to LR the image looks great! If I do the same thing in CS3 the image always looks great. If I drag the same image in LR and CS4 to my laptop it looks great! So I believe CS4 is not interpreting the monitor profiles correctly. CS3 and LR2.2 always seem to handle this with no problems.

Not sure this solves your issues but I now have something to call Adobe or Apple about.

Everything still sounds like a colorspace mis-match but both Ray and Jack indicate that they have checked Color Settings and they are correct. If either of you wanted to remove all doubt, it might be helpful to post a screen-shot of the CS3 and CS4 Color Settings window.

Beyond that, it sounds like one of two possible problems/solutions:
- Some kind of corruption that occured during instalation of CS4. If that was the case, a de-install and re-install might be called for.

- Some rarer kind of problem due to your particular mix or hardware, installs, and so on. Could even be a very specific bug in PS. Probably necessary to pursue with Adobe Support in that case.

After setting the ACR values and opening the image in Photoshop, the
Photoshop version is noticeably darker and slightly more contrasty
than the way it appeared in ACR. Both are set to Adobe RGB 1998
colorspace. In order to make the ACR version look the same as the
version that opened in Photoshop, I had to change the Point curve in
ACR so that the quarter tone setting was roughly 70, 49 and the
midpoint was also lowered accordingly. The three quarter point was
left at it's original value. Of course if the image is reopened using
these settings, then the PS version again looks still darker and more
contrasty. I have a screen shot of the point curve I used to match up
the appearances.