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AB842
Participating Frequently
February 6, 2022
Answered

Sony A7iv noise issue

  • February 6, 2022
  • 8 replies
  • 25537 views

I bought a Sony A7iv in December and I have had constant issues editing photos in lightroom/camera raw. I am running the current version of camera raw (11.1 Camera Raw 14.1) and shooting uncompressed raw files in the camera. The issue I'm having is whenever I add clarity or boost the shadows or boost the exposure, I begin to get hundreds of white pixels in the shadows of the image to the point of being unpublishable.

 

I've made sure I'm not shooting in any picture profiles and DRO is off in the camera. 


I've called both Sony and Adobe support. Sony had me open the raw files Imaging Edge - their proprietary software - and the issue didn't show up so they told me the won't help me. Adobe said can't do anything but the issue might get resolved whenever camera raw is updated. As a final test, I opened the images in Capture 1 and the white pixels aren't their but the image is so soft I wouldn't consider the image usable. 


I've attached screen captures and a .jpg export of an example. You can see the adjustments I make to the image on the right side of the screen capture. 

I've read online that some people had the same issue with the Sony A7iii and ended up returning is because the issue was never fixed. I'm a full-time photography that was planning on transition from Fuji to Sony but this is a serious issue that make this camera essentially a brick. 

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer Ian Lyons

White pixels normally indicates that pixel is stuck 'On', but unlike dead pixels tend to be random. 

 

BTW, is this your post on Reddit?

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Lightroom/comments/s9hzvj/sony_a7iv_files_have_white_pixels_in_the_shadows/

 

If not, then worth reading as others in the linked thread seem to be of the opinion that it's not unusual issue. I also read in another thread on the same forum that there is a menu option in the A7 IV for remapping pixels. Pixel remapping is also mentioned in context of A7 IV in this thread at DPReview https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4621325

 

Also, looking through Andrew's results with RawDigger indicate that the white dots are present in the original raw file. As to not appearing in C1 or Imaging Edge may well be as a result of the default noise reduction being stronger than Adobe use in CR and LrC/LrD

8 replies

Ian Lyons
Community Expert
Ian LyonsCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
Community Expert
February 7, 2022

White pixels normally indicates that pixel is stuck 'On', but unlike dead pixels tend to be random. 

 

BTW, is this your post on Reddit?

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Lightroom/comments/s9hzvj/sony_a7iv_files_have_white_pixels_in_the_shadows/

 

If not, then worth reading as others in the linked thread seem to be of the opinion that it's not unusual issue. I also read in another thread on the same forum that there is a menu option in the A7 IV for remapping pixels. Pixel remapping is also mentioned in context of A7 IV in this thread at DPReview https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4621325

 

Also, looking through Andrew's results with RawDigger indicate that the white dots are present in the original raw file. As to not appearing in C1 or Imaging Edge may well be as a result of the default noise reduction being stronger than Adobe use in CR and LrC/LrD

    A
    AB842Author
    Participating Frequently
    February 7, 2022

    I've seen that post and pixel remapping doesn't do anything to resolve the issue. The issue isn't white pixels/spec/dots appearing on the image SOOC (straight out of camera), the issue starts whenever I make an edit - boost the exposure slider, add clarity, boost the shadow slider, etc... - a massive amount of white pixels effect the shadow area unlike anything I've seen on a digital camera from the last 10 years. This issue makes editing or post-processing files impossible because the shadow detail falls apart almost immediately after making any adjustments.

    Here is an example of how it could effect a different type of photographer. If a product photographer wants the backdrop of a product to be true black while the product is properly exposed (so the exposure of the image isn't "ideal" but the desired exposure of the photographer). They take the photo, bring it into a raw convert, add +20 clarity and suddenly the backdrop area is covered in white pixels that weren't visible before the edit of +20 clarity. The image looked normal SOOC (straight out of camera) but any edit will cause a dramatic degradation in image quality to such an extreme point there is something clearly wrong with either the camera or the software.

     

    I have troubleshoot all the common camera setting issues people have complained about online. 


    In RawDigger, I'm able to open raw files and look at the histogram, individual pixels RGB values, display RGB values, and turn on under/over exposure indicators but I don't see any way to isolate these white dots. As @TheDigitalDog said, he was able to see the white dots in RawDigger using the exported .DNG out of lightroom. Any screencapture he posted with the file ending in .dng has been through lightroom. I see the same thing he does, yes there are obviously white pixels/specs/dots. 

    I'm doing my best to explain myself but I don't think you all understand the issue. Thank you for everyone's time, I wish this was more productive. I'll be occasionally looking at this thread but will likely stop replying. The evidence of the issue - the raw files, dng files, screen captures, and youtube video - will be available is anyone else is having a similar issue with a Sony a7vi.

     

     

    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    February 7, 2022
    @AB842 wrote:

     

    I'm doing my best to explain myself but I don't think you all understand the issue. 

     Wow!

    “There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Søren Kierkegaard

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
    A
    AB842Author
    Participating Frequently
    February 6, 2022

    @TheDigitalDog @Per Berntsen I just performed a test where I shot the Sony A7iv and Fuji XT3 with identical settings (3200 ISO, f/2.8, 1/200) with their lens caps on (pure black) and performed the same edits in lightroom (+1 on the exposure slider and +25 clarity). The Fuji file has minimal white noise while the Sony file it literally covered it. 

     

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14L6AuD9RmPY70A8bh_joUUAcpcGXvuEG?usp=sharing

     

    Fuji.raf - Raw file from fuji with no adjustments

    Fuji.dng - Adobe lightroom export with the edits listed above

    Sony.arw - Raw file from sony camera with no adjustments

    Sony.dng - Adobe lightroom export with the edits listed above

     

    That is not a normal amount of noise for a camera from December 2021. And again, for the Sony camera the issue is insanely worse in Adobe Camera Raw than it is in Imaging Edge (Sony's raw convert) and Capture One. So either I have a defective camera or adobe raw is not properly interpreting Sony A7iv raw files. Sony and Adobe technical support refuse to help me so what am I supposed to do?

    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    February 6, 2022

    Also, in the one image you did some brightness corrections (because it isn't really exposure despite the name), I see Texture set to plus 25 which exacerbates the noise.

    The screen captures I provided are from ACR but it is on version parity with LR so the settings and results are the same if you try NR in either.

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
    A
    AB842Author
    Participating Frequently
    February 6, 2022

    Even with noise reduction, the camera performs worse than my Fuji EX3 (a 5 year old APSC camera) with no noise reduction applied. I frequently under exposure by a stop to keep my shutter speeds higher then boost the exposure in post during low light situations like these - it is a what I do all the time with my Fujis and have never had any issues. 

     

    I've added a DNG export from a Fuji XT3 from the same night. The setting should be similar but it was shot on a 90mm rather than a 24-70mm. It isn't a direct comparison but the light situation is the same. The XT3 is nearly 4 years old at this point and has no issue boosting the exposure, adding clarity or combing them. 

     

    https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14L6AuD9RmPY70A8bh_joUUAcpcGXvuEG?usp=sharing

     

    The amount of white specs/pixels makes publishing anything shot at 3200 ISO or higher that requires post processing impossible. Either I need to apply so much noise reduction my image is soft or the shadows are covered in white snow. There is an issue with the way adobe is processing Sony A7iv files or my camera is defective. 

    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    February 6, 2022

    It entirely possible that your older camera is better, I can’t help you there. The white pixels can be removed with NR in Lightroom Classic, that's all I can do at this point. There is thus far, no evidence that this is an Adobe processing issue but that isn't impossible. Again, the image is really under exposed, do you see this with optimally exposed raws? The way again to test this is to lock down the camera and shoot a dark scene where the exposure is optimal vs. under exposed. The issue isn't high ISO per se, it is under exposure. So a test is in order.
    You can't boost exposure after capture. Exposure only takes place based on the amount of light (photons) that strike the sensor. You can adjust brightness of course but just because the slider is called "exposure" doesn't make it so. Again, a test where you produce an optimal exposure for the raw (and RawDigger helps here) vs. one quite under exposed would go a long way to finding out what is going on here with those white pixels.

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
      TheDigitalDog
      TheDigitalDog
      Inspiring
      February 6, 2022

      I have the two DNGs.

      First issue is, the raw is really very under exposed and shown in RawDigger below. This is the primary reason you have so much noise.

      As for the white specs (dots), I see them with your settings but you have Color Noise reduction on, but none for Noise Reduction above it which removes those white "dots' of noise, as seen below (set to 25).

      I think you might try other such settings and see if you prefer this, but really providing more actual exposure will go a long way towards getting less noise, if at all possible (I realize in this condition, the light level is very low).

       

      RawDigger with blue overlay of under exposed pixels:

      Your settings in the DNG (NR is zero):

      My settings with NR set to 25:

      Without you having a test of another camera with the same settings, I can't say that this is 'normal' for your new camera or not. But there are settings that can reduce the 'white dots' in Lightroom Classic.

      Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
        A
        AB842Author
        Participating Frequently
        February 6, 2022

        https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/14L6AuD9RmPY70A8bh_joUUAcpcGXvuEG?usp=sharing

         

        Here is a link to the DNG export of the photo in the screen capture. I exported it twice. One with no edits and one with +1 exposure and +25 clarity. I'm not sure of any way to upload these files to Adobe's website. 

        TheDigitalDog
        TheDigitalDog
        Inspiring
        February 6, 2022

        I didn't suggest you convert all raws to DNG, nor would that anything to help the issue. The DNG is just as raw as the proprietary raw. I only want you to convert two raws to DNG so ALL your edits are embedded for us to inspect.

        Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
          A
          AB842Author
          Participating Frequently
          February 6, 2022

          I've tried all three raw options - uncompress, lossless compression, and compressed - all three have the same issues with no noticeable difference when applying adjustments. As a high-volume photojournalist/event photographer, converting to DNG is too time consuming. I capture anywhere from 50 to 300 gigs of uncompressed raw photos a week. The majority of those photos get culled in Photo Mechanic before importing into Lightroom but converting portions of my archive to DNG would make file management incredibly annoying. 

          I'll do a test run but that is not a permanent solution. I expect a professional grade camera to work in industry standard software without headaches. 

          TheDigitalDog
          TheDigitalDog
          Inspiring
          February 6, 2022

          Is there another raw setting on the camera you can try? I seem to recall some posts about one of the raw settings affected this but can't recall, you might want to setup a shot under controlled setting (tripod, manual exposure etc), shoot one capture at both settings, check and maybe upload as DNG, both images to something like Dropbox or similar so others can examine the raws with the embedded settings you use.

          Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
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