advantages and disadvantages of ColdFusion?

Ahhhh SOL, you are clueless. I happen to be in a position to know this for a fact, the US Gov't is slowly moving to CF and Adobe solutions. Why? Because they have found all other solutions (Microsoft and Java primarily) are horrible.

In all the gov't installations I've been in over the last few years there is no PHP and no Ruby. But more and more CF with Flash front ends.

So you just stay with whatever lame language you want and let people like me keep nailing the very nice paying contracts for CF.

Andy, we hear loud and clear that CF is not the tool for you. Your needs are apparently not compatible with what CF has to offer. Either that or you have not learned to use CF in ways that work for you. There is no shame in that.

You can drive a Chevrolet, or you can drive a Ferrari, or you can drive a BMW. Any one of them will get you where you need to go. One might be the right choice for you, but might be wrong for someone else.

There is an old adage that states you can have it done cheap, you can have it done fast, or you can have it done well. Pick two.

I, personally, can program very well and very fast in ColdFusion. The tradeoff is the initial cost of the server software.

If you do not have the ability to program very well or very fast in ColdFusion, then your point of view will not be the same. The solution is to get more experience or more training in CF, or switch to a tool you are more comfortable with.

rE: CF is great if you like ease of use, quick learning curve, flexibility,
maintainability and fast development.

Sure, but you can get all that and much more with other platforms - and at a
much more flexible cost and with a much larget talent pool and distrubtion
base. So the reasons to go the cf route are usually thin on the ground
unless there are some pretty damned specific grounds for it.

re: that picking just about any of these
tools will get the job done quicker and easier than ever before.

Exactly. (Though cf is not really all that productive by comparison due to
having no real IDE and a very small amount of third party interest and
support. Other platforms go above and beyond it 'tag' approach , before you
hop with the magical tags theory, and have done for a number of years)

re: You can choose just about any tool you want. They are just tools.

Bad advice, very bad. You must choose the tool that is right for the job. If
it is going to be expensive and limiting (as cf can certainly be) then it is
a a bad choice to say "oh, any tool will do"

re: Pick a tool. Learn to use it correctly.

Good advice, very good.












"tclaremont" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:er4ddb$lms$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> There is no "right" answer for everyone. If there WAS a right answer there
> would only be ONE platform.
>
> CF is great if you like ease of use, quick learning curve, flexibility,
> maintainability and fast development.
>
> If your priorities are such that you need to choose from four billion job
> candidates for each programming position, or that you are so naive that
> you
> HAVE to have a Microsoft solution, or the extra five dollars a month in
> hosting
> charges is a problem for you, or you need the ability to choose from a
> plethora
> of books on such an intuitive platform, then CF might not be the direction
> that
> you want to go.
>
> The industry trend as I see it is NOT CF. It is NOT ASP. It is NOT NET.
> The
> industry trend has evolved to the point that picking just about any of
> these
> tools will get the job done quicker and easier than ever before. The
> bottom
> line is that the choice of tool is nowhere near as consequential these
> days as
> it was in the past. You can choose just about any tool you want. They are
> just
> tools.
>
> Handing someone [insert current programming flavor of the month here] does
> not
> make them a good programmer any more than handing someone a hammer makes
> them a
> good carpenter.
>
> Pick a tool. Learn to use it correctly. Give the customers a product that
> works for them.
>

There is no "right" answer for everyone. If there WAS a right answer there would only be ONE platform.

CF is great if you like ease of use, quick learning curve, flexibility, maintainability and fast development.

If your priorities are such that you need to choose from four billion job candidates for each programming position, or that you are so naive that you HAVE to have a Microsoft solution, or the extra five dollars a month in hosting charges is a problem for you, or you need the ability to choose from a plethora of books on such an intuitive platform, then CF might not be the direction that you want to go.

The industry trend as I see it is NOT CF. It is NOT ASP. It is NOT NET. The industry trend has evolved to the point that picking just about any of these tools will get the job done quicker and easier than ever before. The bottom line is that the choice of tool is nowhere near as consequential these days as it was in the past. You can choose just about any tool you want. They are just tools.

Handing someone [insert current programming flavor of the month here] does not make them a good programmer any more than handing someone a hammer makes them a good carpenter.

Pick a tool. Learn to use it correctly. Give the customers a product that works for them.

Hey mpjx, don't get me wrong here. I am not saying cf is no good, cf still
has a market. All I am contending is that the cf market is very small and
that its no big secret why it is so small. It may not matter to you about
this - but if you want something that is more widely supported, has a good
selection of developers on hand, and has a decent support system with lots
of competetive third party support - well, cf is generally not going to be
the number one choice.

Your problem here is that you are not getting a fair set of comments from
anyone. Plus the tech advice you are getting is , well, lets just say its
like the blind leading the blind in some ways. CF is a langugae that
attracts newbies (usually designers) so you get some pretty wacky and
screwed up advice in here sometimes.

Pick up your telephone and call soem web shops in your area - make like you
want a site developed and that somebody told you it should be done with cf.
Listen to the responses you get and the advice they give you. Many will say
"why cf? Its too expensive. We can do that that in {php, asp.net ...] much
faster and for half the cost." Not neccasarilly becuase its true, but
because they just don't have cf developers or see the need for a cf server
in todays market. CF is the exception these days, not the rule - you'll see.
(or not - depends where you live I guess.the pont is that cf is not popular
or used in all places, Whereas teh others under discussion are wildly
popular and supported all over the world)





"mpjx" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:er42s1$a67$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Hi Mike
>
> Thanks again for the quick reply. R.E. the security question, sorry I read
> your second comment:
>
> "Of course, the vast majority spends a huge number of dollars and/or
> man-hours
> to put out mostly appalling (in terms of security and usability) web
> sites."
>
> but out of context of your first post. My bad. I've re-read everything and
> I
> do understand the point you're making.
>
> I really appreciate your objective advice.
>
> As for SliceofLife: let him (or her) put their money where their mouth is.
> If
> they can give concrete examples to back up their statements, great.
>

re: If
they can give concrete examples to back up their statements, great.

Which statements? My main contention here is that cf is the least popular,
thats easy to prove if needed? Can I give examples of how it is not as
productive as, say, aspx? Yeah sure, just let me know. I feel I can back up
my beliefs - but don't listen to me, just cruise round teh web for a while
and get a sense for how cf is percieved in the web dev community at large.
It's a platform for newbies and not so many folk are using it these days
(cf was a lot bigger in years gone by but has largely been killed off by MS,
Java and the many open source options that we now have)




"mpjx" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:er42s1$a67$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Hi Mike
>
> Thanks again for the quick reply. R.E. the security question, sorry I read
> your second comment:
>
> "Of course, the vast majority spends a huge number of dollars and/or
> man-hours
> to put out mostly appalling (in terms of security and usability) web
> sites."
>
> but out of context of your first post. My bad. I've re-read everything and
> I
> do understand the point you're making.
>
> I really appreciate your objective advice.
>
> As for SliceofLife: let him (or her) put their money where their mouth is.
> If
> they can give concrete examples to back up their statements, great.
>

Hi Mike

Thanks again for the quick reply. R.E. the security question, sorry I read your second comment:

"Of course, the vast majority spends a huge number of dollars and/or man-hours to put out mostly appalling (in terms of security and usability) web sites."

but out of context of your first post. My bad. I've re-read everything and I do understand the point you're making.

I really appreciate your objective advice.

As for SliceofLife: let him (or her) put their money where their mouth is. If they can give concrete examples to back up their statements, great.

OK, lots of opinions here ... thanks guys.

MikerRoo: can you give me any concrete examples of why CF is more secure and more flexible than other languages? Any solid examples concerning total cost of ownership would also be welcome.

SliceOfLife: can you provide solid examples of why CF is not inherently more secure than other languages; evidence that total cost of ownership (in business environments) is more when using CF than other languages; also solid examples of why RoR is easier than CF.

Sabaidee: Thanks for you comments. Yes, I am a designer, not a programmer bu I'm also a business owner. The choice of which language the studio adopts is a strategic decision and as such should be made by me based on the advice of experienced professionals (i.e. programmers). It will determine what skillset I look for when hiring a programmer, how I pitch to business clients, and to a certain extent, how the studio brand is affected. These kind of discussions/opinions are exactly what I need for taking a decision.

Thanks again all of you.

re: it
is very easy now to find a freelance programmer for any language who is
available on a project-by-project basis.

Slow down there Chief! This is the one of the major drawbacks to CF in the
minds of most decision makers and IT managers, it IS very hard to find a cf
developer available on a project by project basis. This is true in a great
many parts of the world as many will atest too. On the other hand, your
statement is actually true for most other server side platforms as there is
a large developer base of .Net, Java and PHP programmers out there.
Filtering out the good ones from the bad ones is hard enough when you have a
large talent pool -with CF its even worse as the pool is so small to begin
with.

re: > 1) first of all, using just one tool is not a good approach.

If you mean one server side dev tool - then using one IS a very good
approach. Again, most other developers in other langages do just fine using
the one tool. CF folk, however, simply have to use more than one tool to
make a living. A .Net guy, for example, can make all his living of .Net. A
cf developer nearly always has to learn another server language to survive.

Flawed arguments my friend, but with the best of intentions no doubt.


"Sabaidee" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:er3b0e$ead$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> shall we just stop feeding this useless thread?
> to mpjx:
> 1) first of all, using just one tool is not a good approach. you can't
> build a
> car with just a spanner. from your original post it appears that you
> currently
> do not have anyone in your company who knows even one of the languages you
> have
> mentioned - otherwise your choice of language would have been made for
> you. it
> is very easy now to find a freelance programmer for any language who is
> available on a project-by-project basis.
>
> 2) secondly, if you are just a designer, not a programmer, then you should
> not
> be making the decision which language/platform or "design studio" should
> "officially" adopt. leave that to people who are actually going to be
> writing
> the code around your designs.
>
> and i am not even going to address any of the troll's useless
> coments/quips.
>
>

shall we just stop feeding this useless thread?

to mpjx:
1) first of all, if you are just a designer, not a programmer, then you should not be making the decision which language/platform your "design studio" should "officially" adopt. leave that to people who are actually going to be writing the code around your designs.

2) secondly, using just one tool is not a good approach. you can't build a car with just a spanner. from your original post it appears that you currently do not have anyone in your company who knows even one of the languages you have mentioned - otherwise your choice of language would have been made for you. it is very easy now to find a freelance programmer for any language who is available on a project-by-project basis.

and i am not even going to address any of the troll's useless comments/quips.