Got CFM?

One of the biggest problems CF faces is that there is a shortage of CF
developers that can see the big picture. Instead, they bury their head in
the sand that is Adobes (Limited) marketing. They feel safety in numbers,
all the whiel not knowing that the numbers are critically low by relative
standards.

People like Ray and Katsuey are true evengelists and are actively trying to
tackle a defined and very real problem CF is, in the minds of many, a dying
or dead technology. It doesn't matter of it is or is not, perception counts
and this percepton is wide spread. Not only that, it doesn't take a rocket
scientist to see exactly why this is so. And no, not just that CF is trying
to compete in a market where equal to superior solutions are available in a
much more attainable manner (eg; cost, adoption, third party support,
education,..)

Adobe need to STOP charging for the CF Server immediately - this model of
profit generation will make money in the short term but will NOT create a
vibrant community or generate an upward spiral. Adobe CAN make money selling
a commercial grade IDE, professional level support, education, tools, and ,
in short, all those other things that work well in the open source world.

Clearly, Adobe know that CF is minor league in its field (despite it having
major league potential). All other manufacturers of supposedly RAD platforms
provide a commercial grade IDE. Do you think we haev been without such since
Allaire sold up due to there being no money for it? No, it's due to there
being no faith in the product other than to keep it on life support. Heck,
Macromedia promoted PHP more than Coldfusion!

Katsuey - the gotCFM site - nice job and very worthwhile. But highlighting
the small number of sites that use coldfusion will only impress those CF
developers that have their heads so buried in the sand as to actually be
impressed and think the numbers are large. And sadly, it is these developers
that are unlikley to identify with your cause and spread the good word. Why?
They don't even know there is a problem!

I'd love to see somebody with your passion and motivation rally around ideas
for getting Adobe to open source CF. Or, if thats not going to happen, rally
around the idea of them completing their commercial offering by giving CF a
commercial grade IDE and some genuine marketing committment.










"Katsuey" <katsuey@removeitkatsuey.com> wrote in message
news:fa9e2c$fqv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>> I think rather than a site that list other sites (lets face it, who
>> really cares but cf people themselves) it woud be better to rally Adobe
>> to open source the product and/or get them to make it surpass free/open
>> products so that there is little doubt that it is still relavant.
>
> A site that lists sites using CF does bring to attention that very
> large companies are successfully using CF to power their needs.
> Open source? While that would be lovely for those of us that
> have to purchase server licenses, the down side would be that
> then there is little if any money to continue its development.
>
> Adobe hasn't supported CF enough probably because it really
> hasn't been that long since it took over MM. It is a shame to see
> better support for PHP in DWCS3 than CF. Adobe does need to
> get on the stick and use their own product and support it better.
>

re: A site that lists sites using CF does bring to attention that very
large companies are successfully using CF to power their needs.

Yes, but thats like fighting a battle you cannot win. Relatively speaking,
very few large companies use CF. There's no way you can change that just by
highlighting it. Remember most large companies have a more enterprise wide
view of information and consolidate on enterprise wide technologies such as
dot net and java. There's not a great deal of them that want to introduce cf
into the mix as these "enterprise wide" technologies have their own web
presentation layers. Those that do, and yes they do exist of course, do not
make for substantial numbers so , as I say, there's not point getting into a
pointless race you can't hope to win.

re: While that would be lovely for those of us that
> have to purchase server licenses, the down side would be that
> then there is little if any money to continue its development.

Not sure where you get the ideas from - no money in open source?? For
starters, there's not much momney in cf right now. It's a B grade product
for Adobe (kind of, though thats not worded very fairly). For example, they
don't even produce an IDE for it, instead relying on open source already!

Once CF is open sourced, an indistry can spring up around it. Adobe, for
example, will make more money from selling an enterprise grade IDE, support,
tools etc. Selling a scripting language just doesn't work well in todays
market - the only way CF can continue on is with the same strategy they use
now - sell it to Newbies as the prime market. Most other arguments for it
are now obsolete. The problem is that other big player now target newbies
too - even java which was once considered too hard has been simplified by
Sun (to a degree) and certainly Asp.Net deservedly attracts newbies as it is
is truly RAD and less coding required.

re: Adobe does need to
get on the stick and use their own product and support it better.

Well, yes and no. They are in business and as such they can probably see
that CF just isn't "the" tool in that market. CF has fans, but Adobe are
aware of the challenges with making a case for it and teh impact it has on
what they can/should spend on it versus what they can recoup. They are
probably, from a business point of view, doing as well as can be expected
with it. They definitely know that CF, as a secondary product to them,
cannot hope to compete well against Asp.Net, Php, RoR and all the otehr
totally free, rad and widely adopted scripting and/or enterprise platforms.
Make no mistake, CF is a tough sell, and Adobe have doen well to have kept
it on life support as opposed to just killing it completely.

Open source is the only way to go IF CF is too get back into the minds of
the developer community at large.





"Katsuey" <katsuey@removeitkatsuey.com> wrote in message
news:fa9e2c$fqv$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>> I think rather than a site that list other sites (lets face it, who
>> really cares but cf people themselves) it woud be better to rally Adobe
>> to open source the product and/or get them to make it surpass free/open
>> products so that there is little doubt that it is still relavant.
>
> A site that lists sites using CF does bring to attention that very
> large companies are successfully using CF to power their needs.
> Open source? While that would be lovely for those of us that
> have to purchase server licenses, the down side would be that
> then there is little if any money to continue its development.
>
> Adobe hasn't supported CF enough probably because it really
> hasn't been that long since it took over MM. It is a shame to see
> better support for PHP in DWCS3 than CF. Adobe does need to
> get on the stick and use their own product and support it better.
>

> I think rather than a site that list other sites (lets face it, who really
> cares but cf people themselves) it woud be better to rally Adobe to open
> source the product and/or get them to make it surpass free/open products
> so that there is little doubt that it is still relavant.

A site that lists sites using CF does bring to attention that very
large companies are successfully using CF to power their needs.
Open source? While that would be lovely for those of us that
have to purchase server licenses, the down side would be that
then there is little if any money to continue its development.

Adobe hasn't supported CF enough probably because it really
hasn't been that long since it took over MM. It is a shame to see
better support for PHP in DWCS3 than CF. Adobe does need to
get on the stick and use their own product and support it better.

re: And it just serves as further evidence to what I posted earlier about
the misconceptions that plague ColdFusion, CFML and the whole ColdFusion
community!

re: "apparently they had never heard of it, and I'm having a bit of trouble
convincing them that a) lots of people use ColdFusion and b) that it is
indeed worth adding to their site"

It was interesting to see that you are attempting to deal with comments and
perceptions that you refer to on your site (as per above) by promoting sites
that use cf.

However, it seems sad that CF is not widely heard of, even in the IT
industry, and that , sa you say, it is plagues with such perceptions and
comments. I think rather than a site that list other sites (lets face it,
who really cares but cf people themselves) it woud be better to rally Adobe
to open source the product and/or get them to make it surpass free/open
products so that there is little doubt that it is still relavant.

re: I'm having a bit of trouble convincing them that a) lots of people use
ColdFusion

Thats the thing - you can't really "convice" people as such - either it is
out there in the public mind or it's marketing has not succeeded. (Though it
must be added here that Adobe do not market Cf very well as it's not a prime
product for them, its a secondary product that they inherited , and didn't
seek)

Refocus - rally for open sourcing coldfusion and an industry around it -
good things will come of it. Don't listen to thos that say it shouldnt be
open sourced. They''' b ethe first to say "its about time" when they
actually do open source it. (Just like the folk who said cf didn't need a
drawing tag/api, but used terms like "long awaited" when it was introduced)



"Katsuey" <katsuey@removeitkatsuey.com> wrote in message
news:fa2qdk$3ni$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> In case you are not aware of the project to document
> CF sites, check this out: http://www.gotcfm.com/
> Rey Bango is making a list of sites powered with CF.
> Input your list.
>

Site #1005 http://www.laurieskitchen.com was submitted by
info@laurieskitchen.com. They will be getting a "What Would Ben Do" tshirt.

Site #1004 http://www.HotelBook.com was submitted by Alan Rother. Alan will
be getting a "Got ColdFusion?" tshirt.

Site #1003 http://www.machinerynetwork.com was submitted by Jim Wright. Jim
will be getting a "What Would Ben Do" tshirt.

Site #1002 http://www.techsoup.org was submitted by Michael Wright. Michael
will be getting a "Got ColdFusion?" tshirt.

Site #1001 http://www.fitnessblog.it/fitnessblog/index.cfm was submitted by
Luca Unti. Luca will be getting a "Got ColdFusion?" tshirt and a "Got
ColdFusion?" coffee mug.

and the grand prize winner for site #1000 is Steve "Cutter" Blades for the
site http://www.apposchooldistrict.com/. Steve will be getting an Adobe
laptop-ready backpack filled with Adobe goodness (small promo items,
t-shirts, etc...) and a GotColdFusion? coffee mug.

Katsuey wrote:
> In case you are not aware of the project to document
> CF sites, check this out: http://www.gotcfm.com/
> Rey Bango is making a list of sites powered with CF.
> Input your list.
>
>
Thanks for reminding me. He is supposed to announce today who submitted
the 1000th entry. There where prizes and everything.