I hate writing CRUD statements !!!!

re: Platform-independence is a disadvatange??

Who in the world ever said that?? Thats the most ludicrous comment I've
heard in a while. Platform independance can be an advantage OR a
disdavantage, so not smart to make blanket statements like that, or tell
fibs that others have said it.

Seems to me like you would be incapable of creating a list of advantages an
disadvantages of platform indepenance? Do you honestly consider yourself a
developer despite genuinely belieivng that there are only advnatges to
platform independance, and there are no disadvantages?? Thats rather odd.

At the most basic level - the choice is that of close integration with the
undelying platform and its core services versus the need to potentially
switch platform during the life time of the application. Can't you see that
for many people the prior is way more importnat than the latter? (And vica
versa for many others)

To add to that, CF is not platform independant. It runs on quite a few
platforms, but thats different altogther. For starters, you need different
version of it on different platforms, so clearly it is not platform
independant. It simply comes in different flavours. The Dot Net runtime and
the Java runtime are platform independant, but CF itself is not. In addition
to being platform independant, the dot net runtime also happens to be
language independant.

I appreciate that you are more likley a scripter/designer than an actual
developer, but I woudl still expect that some basic knowledge of computing
in the general sense would have trickled through during the normal course of
things.

To really drive home the point here - I, and many others, have constantly
had to switch from one language to another (example, upgrading cf code to
ruby or dot net, or vica versa) It happens fairly often. But not once, not
ever, have I been in a sitaution where somebody has said "Right, that web
app now needs to run on Linux. we just can't have it on a windows box any
longer!!" A very rare occurence indeed - so most poeple just don't sacrafice
the power and integration for the remote possibility that the operating
system soemhow becomes a no go. From a business point of view alone, its a
poor decision.


No offenc JPfeff - but you need to enlighten yourself with computing in
general. And telling porkies about what people have said isn't a good start.


"JPfeff" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:f9scim$e69$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Great, another thread taken over by our resident Troll so he can argue
> with
> himself! I hope Microsnot pays you well for spouting all their marketing
> speak
> on these forums. Platform-independence is a disadvatange?? Spoken as only
> a
> true MS devotee would see it.
>

Great, another thread taken over by our resident Troll so he can argue with himself! I hope Microsnot pays you well for spouting all their marketing speak on these forums. Platform-independence is a disadvatange?? Spoken as only a true MS devotee would see it.

re: For every
.Net disciple like our troll here, there are many CF developers that find it
far faster to work in than other options.

What a crock - the number of .Net developers dwarfs the number of CF
developers. If you didn't know that, then you clealry have no concept or
insight into the industry you are in. Even most cf developer accept this
much. So that comment was pure guff.

Dot Net apps are built far far faster than CF apps, there's less code
plumbing required (due to web forms model) and more focus on solving
business problems (via event model). Plus the IDE fully supports you at
practically every level - even the free version!

I'm not saying Dot Net is teh answer for all solutions - I'm just saying its
faaster in every sense of the word fast an dthat cf is very laborious and
code intensive with relatively little support by comparison.

"MaryJo" <maryjo@cfwebstore.com> wrote in message
news:f9ou9i$9d1$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> If you're used to using something else, than obviously you are likely to
> be
> faster working in that, versus something you are less comfortable in. For
> every
> .Net disciple like our troll here, there are many CF developers that find
> it
> far faster to work in than other options. Part of that is because there
> *are*
> lots of tools for doing the basics. Just look at all the great frameworks
> available... pick the best for you and/or your application and a lot of
> the
> work is done for you. Eclipse makes it even easier now with the frameworks
> browser. And for Crud...well, just get the Flexbuilder Extensions for
> Eclipse.
> They come with not only RDS support, but also wizards that will build out
> all
> your CRUD CFCs automatically. You can google to find others that have been
> written, there's a bunch out there, as well as the other's already listed
> here.
> Here's another one I ran across:
>
> http://icegen.riaforge.org/
>
>

Try DatMgr http://www.bryantwebconsulting.com/cfcs/

re: CF is a pest on so many levels, but almost unarguably it is SLOOOW to
work
with by comparison to truly rad platforms.

Yes, slow to develop with by comparison to what exists today in terms of rad
offereings. But not slow in terms of execution. Cf executes as fast as php,
if not faster due to it being semi compiled.

And Eclipse is really more of code "editor" than an actual "RAD" IDE. In
that it doesn't have a component based development system visually in the
IDE. Its generally considered that this is what consitutes RAD. CF tends to
think in terms of RAD being the existence of functions (or tags as it calls
them). This is not really what anybody in the industry would usually
consider a RAD product. Even Ruby On Rails, which is much more "RAD" like
than cf, is not really RAD either. (it code gen tools are run from the
command line and not an ide) And RAD is not always ideal either - VB6 being
an example of a true RAD platform that is not exactly respected by
professionals. Dot Net being an example of a true RAD platform that is
widely respected and adopted by professionals.


"Campag" <campag@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f9p0ko$bsm$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Mary Jo - could have swore you made a point last week how its a pain to
> have to download everything and how cf comes with everything out of the
> box. (may not have been you admittedly)
>
> CF is a pest on so many levels, but almost unarguably it is SLOOOW to work
> with by comparison to truly rad platforms. It has no IDE and eclipse look
> like amateur hour compared to whats available elsehwere.
>
>
>
> "MaryJo" <maryjo@cfwebstore.com> wrote in message
> news:f9ou9i$9d1$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>> If you're used to using something else, than obviously you are likely to
>> be
>> faster working in that, versus something you are less comfortable in. For
>> every
>> .Net disciple like our troll here, there are many CF developers that find
>> it
>> far faster to work in than other options. Part of that is because there
>> *are*
>> lots of tools for doing the basics. Just look at all the great frameworks
>> available... pick the best for you and/or your application and a lot of
>> the
>> work is done for you. Eclipse makes it even easier now with the
>> frameworks
>> browser. And for Crud...well, just get the Flexbuilder Extensions for
>> Eclipse.
>> They come with not only RDS support, but also wizards that will build out
>> all
>> your CRUD CFCs automatically. You can google to find others that have
>> been
>> written, there's a bunch out there, as well as the other's already listed
>> here.
>> Here's another one I ran across:
>>
>> http://icegen.riaforge.org/
>>
>>
>
>

re: However, since I've had my first real exposure to .Net
in the last 12 months, I was only now beginning to question what I
understood I
had been told.

Typical story - some folk are stuck in CF mode and they only realise what
they are missing out on when they give true RAD products a go. I've seen
people pay thousands for CF and struggle to find decent hosting, then months
later they try out Visual Web Developer and are blown away by how easy and
truly RDA it is - they literally had no idea of data source controls or grid
view controls, instead had been sold on the <cfquery> notion of what RAD
is!!!

CF is awsome for lots of things - but speed and RAD are weaknesses these
days. Its strengths have more to do with synergy with other Adobe products
and quite a few other things -but most definitely not for it's minimal RAD
capabilities. I'd go a far s to say that this is provable fact and not just
conjecture.

"Swampie" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:f9p9ui$nca$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Sean,
>
> I'm afraid I don't have a name. I went to MAX06 mainly to talk to people
> about
> LiveCycle, not necessarily CF. It may have come from a representative
> stationed
> at one of those stands. I realise in a forum like this it becomes hearsay
> but
> the comment stuck with me. We were poised to move to .Net and I was
> wiling to
> take on board anything that would help me justify a continued investment
> in CF
> within our organization. However, since I've had my first real exposure to
> .Net
> in the last 12 months, I was only now beginning to question what I
> understood I
> had been told.
>
> I didn't intend to kick start an anti-CF discussion. CF is great. It's
> been my
> bread and butter for years. I was just having a bad day
>

re: his usual mantra
about how CF isn't RAD, Eclipse isn't a real IDE, blah blah blah.

Not so sure the fibbing helps your cause Mary Jo - nobody said either of
those things. Eclipse is a real IDE and CF can be considered RAD. (even if
by virtue of it being an untyped dynamic scripting language)

re: Most of us
> just ignore him at this point

You got to be kidding right? I get more responses than most!!

re: > Another great advantage of CF is how platform-independent it is.

Yeah, thats a "great" advantage. I switch platforms evey other week, so
really comes in handy - Not. Being platform independant is not "great" or
"un-great", its merely an attribute to consider. Do you want to tap into the
power of your environment/OS or do you want to be platform neutral and lose
some of that power and flexibility? So a pretty silly comment really - in so
much as what you say is as much a disadvantage as an advantage.,

re: There's plenty of information out there on the advantages
> of using CF if you look around

I'd say it's pretty fair to say that most people in the typical cases, find
it hard to make a case for coldfusion these days. And that this explans why
it it used only in certain "hot spots" and not adopted in numbers that make
it anything more than a niche product aimed at newbies.






"MaryJo" <maryjo@cfwebstore.com> wrote in message
news:f9pmo5$844$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Don't worry about it Swampie....our anti-CF troll here just scours the
> forums
> looking for any topic that he can even possibly turn in that direction.
> You'll
> notice he didn't offer you any useful information other than his usual
> mantra
> about how CF isn't RAD, Eclipse isn't a real IDE, blah blah blah. Most of
> us
> just ignore him at this point, you just can't take someone seriously when
> he
> starts making statements like these. Or posts about what someone like me
> has
> written elsewhere without bothering to do a simple forum search to see if
> there's anything to back it up.
>
> Another great advantage of CF is how platform-independent it is. I'm
> currently
> moving my own sites to a VPS. Since it's CF, I can move to an Apache
> server
> which is dirt-cheap compared to running on Windows servers. And with
> low-cost
> CFML servers like BlueDragon and Railo now providing really great
> compatibility
> and performance to be true competitors to CF, the cost of doing this can
> be
> even lower than ever. There's plenty of information out there on the
> advantages
> of using CF if you look around....the Cf-Talk at houseoffusion.com has had
> a
> few discussions on this in the past as well.
>
>

Don't worry about it Swampie....our anti-CF troll here just scours the forums looking for any topic that he can even possibly turn in that direction. You'll notice he didn't offer you any useful information other than his usual mantra about how CF isn't RAD, Eclipse isn't a real IDE, blah blah blah. Most of us just ignore him at this point, you just can't take someone seriously when he starts making statements like these. Or posts about what someone like me has written elsewhere without bothering to do a simple forum search to see if there's anything to back it up.

Another great advantage of CF is how platform-independent it is. I'm currently moving my own sites to a VPS. Since it's CF, I can move to an Apache server which is dirt-cheap compared to running on Windows servers. And with low-cost CFML servers like BlueDragon and Railo now providing really great compatibility and performance to be true competitors to CF, the cost of doing this can be even lower than ever. There's plenty of information out there on the advantages of using CF if you look around....the Cf-Talk at houseoffusion.com has had a few discussions on this in the past as well.

Sean,

I'm afraid I don't have a name. I went to MAX06 mainly to talk to people about LiveCycle, not necessarily CF. It may have come from a representative stationed at one of those stands. I realise in a forum like this it becomes hearsay but the comment stuck with me. We were poised to move to .Net and I was wiling to take on board anything that would help me justify a continued investment in CF within our organization. However, since I've had my first real exposure to .Net in the last 12 months, I was only now beginning to question what I understood I had been told.

I didn't intend to kick start an anti-CF discussion. CF is great. It's been my bread and butter for years. I was just having a bad day

Mary Jo - could have swore you made a point last week how its a pain to have
to download everything and how cf comes with everything out of the box. (may
not have been you admittedly)

CF is a pest on so many levels, but almost unarguably it is SLOOOW to work
with by comparison to truly rad platforms. It has no IDE and eclipse look
like amateur hour compared to whats available elsehwere.



"MaryJo" <maryjo@cfwebstore.com> wrote in message
news:f9ou9i$9d1$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> If you're used to using something else, than obviously you are likely to
> be
> faster working in that, versus something you are less comfortable in. For
> every
> .Net disciple like our troll here, there are many CF developers that find
> it
> far faster to work in than other options. Part of that is because there
> *are*
> lots of tools for doing the basics. Just look at all the great frameworks
> available... pick the best for you and/or your application and a lot of
> the
> work is done for you. Eclipse makes it even easier now with the frameworks
> browser. And for Crud...well, just get the Flexbuilder Extensions for
> Eclipse.
> They come with not only RDS support, but also wizards that will build out
> all
> your CRUD CFCs automatically. You can google to find others that have been
> written, there's a bunch out there, as well as the other's already listed
> here.
> Here's another one I ran across:
>
> http://icegen.riaforge.org/
>
>