WUSIWYG SOFTWARE for Coldfusion

> Hmmm, great IDE isn't it?

didnt say @Fud boy did it?

> sorry stpaz

R U really?, now are you sure about that? feel free to phone a friend.

re: I don't think CF is at death's door, but I do think Adobe
(and MM before them) do a very poor job of getting the
word out.

Okay - so it would be a stretch for you to understand how to many (MANY) CF
is actually dead? If a person lives in one of the places where there in no
longer any CF work, where CF isn't marketed, and where CF isn't used - you
don't think that person can safely state that CF is dead and, for all
intents and purposes, have a valid point? Not just here in Austrlai, but
world wide, once popular books pulled from print, classes dropped, Adobe/MM
pulling staff out of the country, ceasing all marketing that was usually
done - you can't see how these people are totally withing their rights to
claim that CF is dead?

RE: They follow all this poor marketing with dump things that
turn newbies off.

Yes and No I think. Even if CF were as good as competeing technologies (and
not just a personal pereference or "niche" tool for newbies) it would still
suffer due to lack of marketing and it being an incomplete platform (Eg;
you'd need at least a pro IDE to be able to say "Hey, we're serious about
CF" and make it clear that you were'nt cheekily trying to kid beginners that
CF was somehow more RAD than Ruby/Asp.Net etc - that plan may hook a few in
teh beginning but they always find out in the end!

Mr Katsuey - you comment that I say "bad" things about CF. And in many ways
you are of course correct. You may wish to question why. Am I really here
trying to get people to move to other technologies or to be "mean" about CF?
Feel free to think so but its just not true. I can't quite see the
practicality of that unless I were simply a bit "nuts" - feel free to think
that too! - but consider the good that "may" come from it.

Check out
http://techfeed.net:80/blog/index.cfm/2007/8/22/Open-Letter-to-Tim-Buntel to
get some idea of how people that are not in your sitaution feel. These are
peopel that genuinely love CF and would use it if it were not, for all
intents and purposes, dead and/or dying.




"Katsuey" <katsuey@removeitkatsuey.com> wrote in message
news:fauju6$r9d$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>> Huh? I don't hate CF, thats crazy talk Mr Katsuey.
>>
> Everytime someone says something good about CF, you
> are right there to say something bad. I've seen your posts
> over and over and many contain claims that simply aren't
> true.
>
> I don't think CF is at death's door, but I do think Adobe
> (and MM before them) do a very poor job of getting the
> word out. They indeed treat it like the red-headed step
> child and give more support in DW for PHP than CF.
>
> They follow all this poor marketing with dump things that
> turn newbies off. In MX7 there was the catastrophic bad
> downloads and now in CF 8 there are the missing tutorials
> and files. Plus they couldn't even clean up the tutorial they
> have by cleanly removing all references to MX7. It's a shame
> because I see a lot of new people attempting CF each time
> it's released.
>

> Huh? I don't hate CF, thats crazy talk Mr Katsuey.
>
Everytime someone says something good about CF, you
are right there to say something bad. I've seen your posts
over and over and many contain claims that simply aren't
true.

I don't think CF is at death's door, but I do think Adobe
(and MM before them) do a very poor job of getting the
word out. They indeed treat it like the red-headed step
child and give more support in DW for PHP than CF.

They follow all this poor marketing with dump things that
turn newbies off. In MX7 there was the catastrophic bad
downloads and now in CF 8 there are the missing tutorials
and files. Plus they couldn't even clean up the tutorial they
have by cleanly removing all references to MX7. It's a shame
because I see a lot of new people attempting CF each time
it's released.

Re: > For someone who hates CF so much

Huh? I don't hate CF, thats crazy talk Mr Katsuey.

Re: you have to stay around a CF list and post bad stuff

You must be joking, right? Cf is just a tool - pros and cons like anything
else. Seems silly to act like I'm insulting your mother when its just a
peice of software.

I'm one of an ever growing number of people very (VERY) concerned about the
way CF is fading it in many parts of the world. Stating this does not mean I
hate CF, on the contrary, it means I want something done to save it. You can
help a little by visitng:

http://techfeed.net:80/blog/index.cfm/2007/8/22/Open-Letter-to-Tim-Buntel

If you don't feel that CF is at deaths door, surely you can at least see
that for many people in many parts of the world it is - and they are at
least trying to do something rather than burying their heads in the sand and
having silly arguments about wether or not it ' fading out - for many, it
already has. At least some are still around to complain rather than simply
ditch it.

If CF is working out for you, great. I'm truly happy for you, and jealous.
But just be aware that eventually there's a chance you may end up in the
same boat as the rest if us (ie; once passionate CF developers who live in a
society where CF died long ago)

I appreciate you feeling that I hate CF - but you are wrong on that account.


"Katsuey" <katsuey@removeitkatsuey.com> wrote in message
news:fatl4j$ocq$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>> No, thats not true. CF, for example, cannot do proper IO (eg: read a file
>> a
>
> For someone who hates CF so much, I'm wondering why you
> have to stay around a CF list and post bad stuff (in a very biased
> and inaccurate way) about it.
>

> No, thats not true. CF, for example, cannot do proper IO (eg: read a file
> a

For someone who hates CF so much, I'm wondering why you
have to stay around a CF list and post bad stuff (in a very biased
and inaccurate way) about it.

re: there is nothing one can really do over the other.

No, thats not true. CF, for example, cannot do proper IO (eg: read a file a
line at a time as opposed to having to read an entire file into memory) And
there are plenty of other things CF just cannot do that can be done in
Asp.Net. (With CF, this has to be acheived by way of Java programming)

re: If you're a part-time programmer I would use CF.

Just becuase of "part time" that doesn't mean they don't need a powerful
solution at the expense of a slightly higher up front learning curve. Thats
just me - as in, if you are going to do a job, do it right first time. Most
people who go with CF end up having to ditch when they realise the
limitations (hosting, support, resources, etc)


"jhutchdublin" <webforumsuser@macromedia.com> wrote in message
news:faskon$ls2$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> As someone who does both ASP.NET and ColdFusion there are advantage and
> disadvantages to each.
>
> there is nothing one can really do over the other. It all comes down to
> learning languages. I have projects that have used both
>
> For most of my development I use ColdFusion, I find it was much easier to
> learn and quicker to write. I use Dreamweaver as my CF IDE.
>
> I have also used CFEclipse, which is free and is quite good. The only
> thing I
> don't like about is that it doesn't close my tags where Dreamweaver does
>
> Once again each of these products has advantages and disadvantages to
> them.
> You can try Dreamweaver free for 30days and CFeclipse is free a bit tricky
> to
> understand the downlaods and installation as Eclipse doesn't come with an
> installer
>
> I have also used ASP.NET 2.0 for various projects. With ASP.NET you
> several
> languages you can choose VB.NET and C# are the most popular. VB.NET is the
> easier one to learn
>
> Keep in mind C# is a fully Object Orientated Language where ColdFusion is
> fully OO, but Componets are getting it there
>
> Both are scaleable, meaning they can grow and expand with your project.
>
> For easy of learning I would recommend ColdFusion and now with ColdFusion
> 8
> being able to work with .NET written components it might be a good idea to
> go
> down this route
>
> If you're a part-time programmer I would use CF.
>

As someone who does both ASP.NET and ColdFusion there are advantage and disadvantages to each.

there is nothing one can really do over the other. It all comes down to learning languages. I have projects that have used both

For most of my development I use ColdFusion, I find it was much easier to learn and quicker to write. I use Dreamweaver as my CF IDE.

I have also used CFEclipse, which is free and is quite good. The only thing I don't like about is that it doesn't close my tags where Dreamweaver does

Once again each of these products has advantages and disadvantages to them. You can try Dreamweaver free for 30days and CFeclipse is free a bit tricky to understand the downlaods and installation as Eclipse doesn't come with an installer

I have also used ASP.NET 2.0 for various projects. With ASP.NET you several languages you can choose VB.NET and C# are the most popular. VB.NET is the easier one to learn

Keep in mind C# is a fully Object Orientated Language where ColdFusion is fully OO, but Componets are getting it there

Both are scaleable, meaning they can grow and expand with your project.

For easy of learning I would recommend ColdFusion and now with ColdFusion 8 being able to work with .NET written components it might be a good idea to go down this route

If you're a part-time programmer I would use CF.

re: Katsuey's right about ASP in that there can be *much* more to
learn if you want to dig deep...

To a degree, definitely true. But the thing is that this is also the case
with CF - if you dig deep, you need to learn Java and CF -which are entirely
different languages. Asp.Net/C# is actually easier to learn than a CF/Java
combination! If one knows up from he wants to follow through and get
serious - then the case for Visual Web Developer, a true RAD tool, becomes
stronger.


"pcbrown" <rebootfan@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fan1dd$fnc$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Hey Tripp,
>
> I've been using Eclipse for a while, and personally I like it, but it's
> not a
> WYSIWYG tool. I haven't used Dreamweaver for a few years, but it's
> possible
> that it could be adequite to your needs. Working with the trial edition
> might
> be a good idea.
>
> If you're seeking a tool primarily for help with building the interface,
> you
> might also want to look at Microsoft Expression Web, although it doesn't
> feature any tools specific to ColdFusion.
>
> Visual Web Developer is certainly an option, of course, and it never hurts
> to
> be aware of what else is available. It's an extremely powerful tool and if
> you
> are willing to consider learning another language, it could be worth your
> time
> to investigate. Katsuey's right about ASP in that there can be *much* more
> to
> learn if you want to dig deep...but then as a physician I doubt you'd have
> any
> real problems getting a handle on VB or C#. My guess is that you could be
> productive in fairly short order.
>
> Good luck!
>

re: CF is very powerful, ASP is very
difficult to learn.

If you can learn CF, you can learn Asp.Net - they both have all the same
core priciples. Asp.Net is infinitely more powerful and has infinitely more
resources, tools, and support behind it. The poster was asking about tools -
Asp.Net obviously deserved a mention.

re: Your answer is DWCS3 or Eclipse.

Not really answers though are they?


"Katsuey" <katsuey@removeitkatsuey.com> wrote in message
news:famnbr$4j0$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> Ignore the troll who takes the time to bad mouth CF every chance he
> gets. You've already learned that CF is very powerful, ASP is very
> difficult to learn. Your answer is DWCS3 or Eclipse.
>
>

Hey Tripp,

I've been using Eclipse for a while, and personally I like it, but it's not a WYSIWYG tool. I haven't used Dreamweaver for a few years, but it's possible that it could be adequite to your needs. Working with the trial edition might be a good idea.

If you're seeking a tool primarily for help with building the interface, you might also want to look at Microsoft Expression Web, although it doesn't feature any tools specific to ColdFusion.

Visual Web Developer is certainly an option, of course, and it never hurts to be aware of what else is available. It's an extremely powerful tool and if you are willing to consider learning another language, it could be worth your time to investigate. Katsuey's right about ASP in that there can be *much* more to learn if you want to dig deep...but then as a physician I doubt you'd have any real problems getting a handle on VB or C#. My guess is that you could be productive in fairly short order.

Good luck!