Inspiring

Question

Best way to determine PMS and CMYK values from already defined RGB/HEX

Forum|Forum|1 year ago
January 10, 2025
3 replies
2074 views

We defined a wide-ranging RGB/HEX color palette for a brand that is moving towards being more digital-first. However, since it still produces a range of printed products, we now need to develop matching PMS and CMYK values.
It’s not an ideal way to start with the broadest gamut space, but that’s where we are now.

The goal is to have a consistent appearance across the board.
The challenge is that the RGB/HEX (on-screen) palette is already defined with bright, clean colors; some may be hard to match in print (narrower gamut).
Compromises will be necessary. I’ll focus on the primary brand colors and may skip some darker or lighter shades for the PMS/CMYK palette.

There are variables and factors like the printing process and paper quality beyond our control as we work with different vendors — we may not be able to do test printing in most cases.

My question is:
What is the best way to get PMS/CMYK (coated and uncoated) values consistent with the already defined RGB/HEX values? How would you go about it?
I started with finding the closest PMS chips (where possible) and now wonder how best to determine the matching CMYK colors — there will be cases when we have to provide CMYK.

Thank you!

NB, colourmanagement

Community Expert

@Enlightened_play5CFB "We defined a wide-ranging RGB/HEX color palette for a brand"

it's not what you asked, BUT this may be important?

does that mean that your Hex and RGB values have been related to a specific colourspace? (via an ICC profile? )

I'll explain:

Perhaps you are already aware that, like RGB pixel values, Hex values alone are not an unequivocal* way of defining colour.

That is, until the Hex code (or RGB numbers) is/are associated with an ICC document profile e.g. sRGB IEC61966-2.1, Adobe RGB (1998). The ICC profile makes the numbers unequivocal.

Hex codes are simply RGB numbers expressed in ‘Hexadecimal’. So, rather than RGB 0 to 255 you have 00 to FF.

*(incidentally, L*a*b* values do provide an unequivocal colour definition)

Hex and RGB numbers are somewhat meaningless in visual terms unless associated with a particular ICC profile/colour space. This means that numbers in RGB or in Hex represent different colours in differing colourspaces - such as sRGB IEC61966-2.1 & Adobe RGB (1998).

IF you do have to provide CMYK values please be aware that the above issues still pertain, without an associated ICC profile to define press condition, CMYK number are just numbers, not specific colours.

I hope this helps

neil barstow - adobe forum volunteer,

colourmanagement consultant & co-author of 'getting colour right'

See my free articles on colour management

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So, if you are passing Hex codes to colleagues, as with RGB data you need to specify the working colour space too, e.g. sRGB IEC61966-2.1, Adobe RGB (1998).

To reiterate - a specific Hex code used in sRGB IEC61966-2.1, will be a different colour to the same code used in Adobe RGB (1998).

E

Enlightened_play5CFBAuthor

Inspiring

Thank you for that, NB. I'm aware of ICC profiles as an additional parameter that needs to be defined/provided for consistency. I'll look more into your articles about color management at some point.
Thank you guys, for all the comments about the "digital first" approach and the law of physics — I'm painfully aware of that, and if timing and planning were entirely up to my team we'd have done it differently. But that's where we are now, and I'm here to find out what the best way is to tackle PMS and CMYK breakdowns — from where we are.

NB, colourmanagement

Community Expert

@Enlightened_play5CFB can we take it, then, that the RGB and HEX values you have ARE associated with ICC profiles (i.e. the files containing them have profiles embedded?? If that is not the case, then they aren't an acceptable starting point.

If you don't have profiles embedded, then you'd need to discover what the associated colourspace needs to be, to give the desired appearance.

Work on a good calibrated screen and open the files with those colours and edit / assign profile in Photoshop viewing the result to assess nearest to what the designers had in m,ind.

Then the next step is to convert to the CORRECT process CMYK colourspace/s. Best not to guess here.

You may of course, as you anticipated, discover that some colours that have been chosen are out of the gamut (range) of CMYK printing. That will require some pre-conversion optimisation of impossible colours whilst referring to Photoshop's "gamut warning".

Will the job/s be printed with additional spot colours on the press? Some creators don't realise that’s how PMS works properly, wih especially mixed inks. Otherwise, any PMS colour specified in a doc. will have to somehow get made into CMYK of the right flavour.

Literally no point in specifying "special" / PMS colours if they will then be made up out of CMYK inks.

I hope this helps

neil barstow - adobe forum volunteer,

colourmanagement consultant & co-author of 'getting colour right'

See my free articles on colour management online

Help others by clicking "Correct Answer" if the question is answered.

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Bob_Hallam

Legend

The thought that because a brand is primarily digital, brand colors should be set and approved as HEX values first is not a great plan, because you alienate the print world and the brand suffers First choose the colors in PMS then get the hex values from those colors. Then you can protect the brand colors across all media.

ICC programmer and developer, Photographer, artist and color management expert, Print standards and process expert.

E

Enlightened_play5CFBAuthor

Inspiring

I'm well aware of that, Bob, and I wholeheartedly agree. But... a) it's too late now, and b) the need arose from a digital and brand positioning need that called for bright, clean colors you can't get in PMS. With the dominance of digital, this may not be an unusual process, and you wonder if the industry is willing and able to accommodate that "reverse" process. How about Pantone starting by widening the color range and by adding more digital-friendly colors and tools? Sure, CMYK/print gamuts will always be a somewhat limited compare to RGB, and often "muddier" because of adhesives and surfaces, but common, we can do better!

Monika Gause

Community Expert

@Enlightened_play5CFB schrieb:

the need arose from a digital and brand positioning need that called for bright, clean colors you can't get in PMS. With the dominance of digital, this may not be an unusual process,

Digital first and all. We are so new and innovative that the rules of physics don't apply to us?

It's not just Pantone out there. There are several different printing techniques or even applying paint to walls and such.

The public transport provider in my city decided to go that route, because they thought that "all their touchpoints will be digital in a short amount of time". I'm thinking of that every time when waiting at the bus stop and their logo is presented in at least 5 different colors printed on diferent surfaces in different techniques and I can't stop laughing.

Monika Gause

Community Expert

Fot the CMYK:

get printed swatch books and figure out the colors.

For Pantone:

I fear there's no way around getting the Pantone Connect plugin.

If you use the workaround to get Pantone libraries from older versions of Adobe apps, then those colors are outdated. Pantone changed the recipies and some colors.

Pantone just admitted that their printed swatches books are only meant as an inspiration, not as an exact guide, so getting those books is fruitless as well.

E

Enlightened_play5CFBAuthor

Inspiring

Sounds like there's no easy, more efficient way.
I'm using older (outdated) swatches in CC apps, and we bought recent swatch books for coated and uncoated PMS and the (supposedly matching) bridge fans, plus a subscription for the lowest tear Connect. In addition, we may get one of these old-school (non-tearable) CMYK swatch books.
Pantone printed swatch books (or any other) will always represent specific circumstances and cannot satisfy all possible paper and print-environment parameters — in the best scenario they'd cover for an average situation, whatever that means.
Theoretically we could just skip the CMYK definition and leave it up to the respective printer to figure out the best translation (closest CMYK match to PMS) — that's what the PMS standardization is meant for anyway. In our case though, we're interested in manipulating CMYK values to get beyond the limited PMS range and push some of the colors to better match the already defined, brighter/cleaner RGB/HEX brand colors. For that reason I first want to try to find the best PMS and their "best possible" CMYK equivalent as a basis to go from. That at least was my plan, but I have some doubts about this being the best method. And I hope to still find a "better" PMS to CMYK translation tool.

On a side note: not all the printed Pantone swatches can be found in the respective Bridge fan – some of them are missing. Go find Yellow 012 CP, 803 CP or 802 UP for example.

I do believe that Pantone, considering its monopolized position and ridiculous pricing, should do a better job accommodating its clients. It's always been flawed, and probably always will be, but they do it long enough to correct at least some of the most painful quirks. Also, the two industry behemoths Pantone and Adobe need to cooperate better and listen to their client's needs — they happily take our money.

NB, colourmanagement

Community Expert

@Enlightened_play5CFB "I first want to try to find the best PMS and their "best possible" CMYK equivalent as a basis to go from. That at least was my plan, but I have some doubts about this being the best method. And I hope to still find a "better" PMS to CMYK translation tool."

If you have chosen from physical swatches, you COULD measure the PMS swatch that you like [as L*a*b* colour] then convert that value to the CORRECT CMYK press colourspace in Photoshop.

So you already have the tool to do the job I think.

I hope this helps

neil barstow - adobe forum volunteer,

colourmanagement consultant & co-author of 'getting colour right'

See my free articles on colour management online

Help others by clicking "Correct Answer" if the question is answered.

Found the answer elsewhere? Share it here. "Upvote" is for useful posts

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