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st-ati
Known Participant
January 22, 2023
Answered

Different color rendering. Br vs Ps vs Firefox vs ACR

  • January 22, 2023
  • 3 replies
  • 3951 views

Hi There,

 

I'm on Mac Mini M1 OS 13.1. Acer XV272U 120 Hz 10 bit (8 bit FRC)

I faced a huge mess about the color rendering of Ps ecosystem.

I opened the same JPG pic. in Br, Ps, Firefox, ACR and I visibled different color rendering. See attachment.

Could anybody explain me the reason of this phenomenon? Please, avoid color management tutorials. I have proper color managed system.

 

Ati

 

 
 

 

 

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer D Fosse

    1. V4 on the default setting in i1Studio.

    2.https://www.color.org/whyusev4.xalter

    3. But OK, I no need V4 profile for using in Ps ecosystem. I can't argued with that.

    Adobe should warn about they system is not able to manage V4 icc profiles. This is their fault. They wasted a loads of my time. And yours as well.


    quote

    Adobe should warn about they system is not able to manage V4 icc profiles.


    By @st-ati

     

    I've tested v4  and Photoshop/ACR/Lightroom/Bridge all handled it well on my system. But there's a broader picture here involving the GPU and OS as well. Monitor profile conversions are performed in the GPU nowadays. Sometimes it doesn't work well, for whatever reason. I use v2 as standard, just to be safe and because v4 doesn't really have any advantages anyway.

     

    LUT profiles is another risky proposition. Here I've seen some issues in Photoshop, mostly color banding in ProPhoto. That's symptomatic, because ProPhoto is so huge that the smallest inaccuracies, masked in smaller color spaces, get massively amplified. Though it has to be said that I did this testing a while ago, when Photoshop GPU code used the OpenGL APIs. It no longer does that, instead the OS-native APIs (Metal and DirectX) are used.

     

    It's also a question if which software is actually writing the profile. Sometimes they can be a bit off-spec.

    3 replies

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 23, 2023

    I still think it's a bad monitor profile (which, BTW, very much is a color management issue).

     

    How are you profiling your monitor? What calibration software/colorimeter are you using? What settings? Version 4 and/or LUT profiles can be problematic in some scenarios, make sure to make version 2 and matrix-based profiles.

     

    If that's not it, the second most likely possibility is a GPU driver bug. That's something you can normally fix in Windows, but on Mac you have to wait for an OS update, since the driver is integrated into the operating system.

     

    And no, I don't see this difference here on my Windows system with Eizo monitors.

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 23, 2023
    quote
    Assume the profile is wrong, then we should see consistently different colours all of adobe apps.

     

    Actually, that is a widespread misunderstanding. A bad profile will very often affect applications differently - that's one of the telltale signs. A marginal profile can often work in one application but fail in another.

     

    Furthermore, the source color spaces will often be different, so the math of the actual conversion is different, and again, one may work and the other fail. That's the case here. ACR works with linear data with ProPhoto primaries, while Bridge and Photoshop work with gamma encoded standard color spaces.

    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    January 23, 2023
    quote
    quote
    Assume the profile is wrong, then we should see consistently different colours all of adobe apps.

     

    Actually, that is a widespread misunderstanding. A bad profile will very often affect applications differently - that's one of the telltale signs. A marginal profile can often work in one application but fail in another.

     


    By @D Fosse

     

    Indeed, plus (as mentioned), not all software products play nice with V4 display profiles (if that's what the OP might be using). The bottom line, this isn't an Adobe issue. Nor a 'gamma' issue. 

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 23, 2023

    Similar, but not identical. ACR and Firefox show some black clipping not present in PS or Bridge.

     

    I'm fairly certain this is a monitor profile issue. This is a quite common smoking gun.

     

    One more thing: always compare at 100%  Different screen resampling algorithms may influence the result.

     

    st-ati
    st-atiAuthor
    Known Participant
    January 23, 2023

    They use different gamma. Mostly. (But I see color drift too. Ignore it.) Mac OS uses the calibration file. So, different adobe apps use the same color profile in different way. Assume the profile is wrong, then we should see consistently different colours all of adobe apps. Of course I tried the original, Apple factory color profile for my monitor. And the phenomenon was the same.

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    Community Expert
    January 23, 2023

    <moved in correct sequence>

    st-ati
    st-atiAuthor
    Known Participant
    January 22, 2023

    See the pics in Ps or Lr or Br, not in browser.

    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    January 22, 2023

    They all look the same to me, and they should with color management.  

    First, try disabling GPU in the preferences (Performance). Any better?

    If not, recalibrate and build a new ICC display profile; the old one might be corrupted. If you are using software/hardware for this task, be sure the software is set to build a matrix, not LUT profile, Version 2, not Version 4 profile.

    If turning OFF the GPU works, it's a GPU bug, and you need to contact the manufacturer or find out if there's an updated driver for it. This is why disabling GPU is an option as more and more functionality moves to the GPU in newer versions of many Adobe products. Disable third-party graphics accelerators. Third-party GPU overclocking utilities and haxies aren't supported.
    
Also see: https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/troubleshoot-gpu.html

    If the GPU and display profile isn't causing the problem, see:
    https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/kb/lightroom-gives-error-preview-cache.html

     

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" &amp; "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
    st-ati
    st-atiAuthor
    Known Participant
    January 23, 2023

    Thanks for intention. I think you have very low end system, if you do not see the difference. I can see the gamut and gamma drift on my oldschool Ipad Air as well. I no need general advice. It is not color management issue. I need a software bugfix from Adobe. They system is faulty.