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stevenmh72
Participant
July 5, 2013
Question

Laptop: 95% NTSC TN vs 60% NTSC IPS for my use?

  • July 5, 2013
  • 2 replies
  • 42113 views

I'm fairly new to photography, got a G3 in December 2011. Had nothing  but compacts prior. Bought Lightroom 4 and started shooting RAW a year  ago. Upgraded to a G5 last fall and just upgraded to Lightroom 5. I  shoot family and vacation photos, and in particular a lot of photos of  our toddler. I export to JPEG on a shared drive which I stream to a  couple of HDTVs for viewing. I rarely print, and if I do, it's to frame a  photo that came out particularly well at 4x6 or 5x7 or to stick it on  the fridge. In short, it's all personal / hobby, nothing professional /  paid / critical, although I like to do the best job I can with my  limited skill set.

Historically I've been using my desktop PC w/ 23" 72% NTSC matte IPS  monitor calibrated with Spyder4Pro and it's been fine.  However, life  changes when the baby starts walking, and I no longer have the time to  camp out in the basement developing photos. After getting further and  further behind, I started shopping laptops that I could use as a desktop  replacement as I roam around the house watching my son, and also while  traveling. Based on this, the laptop screen needs to be suitable for  editing, and not rely on an external monitor.

I was looking at the Sagers with 95% NTSC matte panels. Then they  released a Haswell-based model with IPS screen. I emailed Sager about  color gamut, and it's only 60% NTSC. I thought that may be subpar since  it doesn't even cover sRGB, so I ended up with a model with the 95% TN  screen, which I've calibrated with Sypder4Pro which is stating 91% NTSC.

The laptop is nice, and has the nicest display of any laptop I've ever  owned. However, vertical angles are still somewhat limited. I'm  wondering how important 95% color gamut is when I don't know at exactly  what angle I'm actually seeing the colors at their most accurate  rendering.  I believe that the slight shift I see within a reasonable  range of viewing angle will probably not create any severe problems when  the finished JPEGs are viewed on the TVs, but I'm wondering if the 60%  NTSC IPS screen would have been a better choice.

I'm not making fine adjustments to color, I don't even know how to any  real degree. I apply the Huelight Standard G5 profile on import.  I  might tinker with bringing out some blue in the sky on a landscape shot,  or add a touch of vibrance, but that has to do more with the amount of  color, not whether the color is accurate.  I'm not moving tone curves  around and stuff like that. I do adjust white balance, but I don't know  if a reduced gamut would impact my ability to do that. It's more a  matter of warmer vs cooler than whether this shade of blue meets aRGB  specifications.

I've got a couple weeks of no-questions-asked return window left.  On  one hand, I've spent a lot of time getting all my programs installed and  set up just the way I want, Lightroom is running fast, and an exchange  and re-setup would be a fairly significant hassle.  On the other hand,  I'd like to make the purchase last on the order of 5 years, and I could  justify an extra day or so if there's a compelling reason to do so.

So, does anyone have an opinion to offer?  For my particular use, does a  cheap IPS panel that doesn't cover sRGB make more sense than a high end  TN panel that almost covers aRGB?  My guess is that I could make either  one work for what I'm doing, and there's probably not enough reason to  switch at this point, but I'd like to hear from those who are more  knowledgeable about it.  Has anyone actually done any editing on a low  gamut IPS monitor and what was your experience?

Thanks!

Steve

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    2 replies

    PayodPanda
    PayodPanda
    Participating Frequently
    August 18, 2013

    Steve, can you let us know which display you finally opted for in the end, and if you're happy with your decision?

    I am considering buying a Sager (NP7352 based on Clevo W350ST) as well with the 95% NTSC Gamut TN panel, it's the AU Optronics B156HW01 V.4, and I've heard good things said about it. Which Sager model offers the IPS display option? I only see the standard 60% gamut TN panel and this 95% NTSC gamut TN panel.

    Based out of India, it won't be possible for me to return the product once I buy it, so I need to make a very informed choice.

    Also, I am about to enter a design school, studying graphic design - so I'll be in the professional field after college. What would you guys suggest as a display for me? Low gamut IPS or high gamut TN panel? A very high quality (read - expensive) display is not in my budget right now.

    Any and all help much appreciated. =)

    Thanks!

    S
    stevenmh72Author
    Participant
    August 20, 2013

    I decided to try the IPS.  Unfortunately, it had a problem unrelated to the screen, so I had to return it for repair and don't have it back yet.  In the short time I had it, I took the time to compare to my desktop 72% NTSC IPS monitor.  It was able to display red properly and without any calibration looked close to my calibrated desktop monitor.  While I didn't get to use Lightroom with it, I don't believe I will have any problem doing so.  There appeared to be sufficient shadow detail to be able to properly adjust the exposure sliders.   I did try to calibrate it with my Spyder4Pro, two attempts, both resulted in extreme red push.  It looked much better out of the box.  However, I did find an article on using the Spyder4Pro with laptop displays, and some of the steps are different than what I did, so I'll be giving it another try once I have the laptop back.  As far as gamut, the calibration results showed 78% sRGB, which I believe is somewhat less than 60% NTSC.  However, as far as I can tell, this LG panel is the only one being made for 15.6" models, so it's what you're going to get for IPS no matter what make/model you buy.

    I think for college you will be more satisfied with the IPS than with the TN.  Having used the 95% TN panel, I can say it's the nicest TN panel I've ever used, great colors in managed applications and much better viewing angles than a typical low to mid grade laptop screen.  However, there is still a noticeable shift in color/contrast when adjusting your seating position, and I had already bought a mechanical viewing angle gauge to attach to the lid before I returned the Sager w/ TN for the Asus with IPS.  As a student you will be working in various places and at various hours, a great variety in lighting conditions and viewing angles, and the IPS panel will be more forgiving in that respect.  If your professors are viewing your projects on laptops, they won't be using a screen any better than yours so there's no point in worrying about color gamut.  By the time you graduate you'll be in the market for something newer.  If you're doing it professionally you probably won't be doing it on a laptop at all.

    The Sager NP4650 and NP6652 have 15.6" IPS panels.  As I mentioned, I would expect these to be the same panels as in the Asus.

    PayodPanda
    PayodPanda
    Participating Frequently
    August 20, 2013

    Thanks for the detailed reply, Steve.

    I checked out the models. These do not allow RAM expansion beyond 16GB. One of my priorities was getting a model which has four DIMM slots, since I am also a digital artist and some big paintings that I might want to print need (probably) more RAM. I am currently using a 4-5 year old laptop with 4 GB RAM, and I have been having problems with it for two years now. When I do a brush stroke it generally takes 10-15 seconds to show on my screen. That's how bad it is right now. And the system is performing okay, I maintain the system properly - everything BUT Photoshop is smooth, so the resources I have are too low for my current usage of Photoshop. Since I don't have a desktop and see no point in investing in one right now because of unsurity of where I will be one year from now, I need a sufficiently powerful laptop.

    I was just waiting for my undergraduate studies to finish before getting a new laptop, and now is the time. =)

    But I digress. The other specs on the laptops are good, component wise, and the price is definitely within my budget, but reviews indicate that the build quality is poor - the body flexes very easily, even under light loads. There is a MAJOR heating problem. The chassis is very poorly dedsigned.

    The IPS panel has a 35ms gray to gray response time (according to a user on a forum) which is VERY high, so ghosting might be discernible by the naked eye. I'm not sure if the same panel is used in your rig though.

    After doing some research on color spaces and monitors, I found out that wide gamut displays on laptops are (probably?) a waste anyway. The 95% gamut TN panel that Sager offers (AU Optronics B156HW01 V.4), and most non-super-high-quality displays for laptops, are only 6 bit, without Hi-FRC, so they can only show 262K colours. The perception of 16million colours comes from dithering.

    So if you get a high gamut display but it is a 6 bit panel, then you will see banding. Very clearly. And non colour managed applications won't look "right" anyway.

    Keeping all this and my budget ($1300) in mind, if I go for a rig with 16+ GB RAM, then the budget doesn't allow me to go for an IPS display. If I go for an IPS display then I (probably) sacrifice the RAM. I don't need a high end GPU, the 750M on the Clevo model you mentioned will do (Sager NP6652 or Clevo W650SR).

    I know this thread was about the display, but can I ask you guys for suggestions on laptops as well? Which Asus model did you buy?

    I am mighty confused right now. I would love an IPS display but I might not be able to afford it with the components I want (need?).

    Also, do you think I need 16+GB RAM? I use many history states and big PSD files, 1 - 1.5GB. I was thinking of making big artworks with PSBs with the new machine, that is why I thought I would need 16+ GB. Should I give priority to the display over the memory? Your thoughts?

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    D FosseCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    July 6, 2013

    If you can return it, do so. Color gamut is really the least of your concerns - a good standard gamut display beats a mediocre wide gamut one any day.

    I'm  wondering how important 95% color gamut is when I don't know at exactly  what angle I'm actually seeing the colors at their most accurate  rendering.

    You hit the nail on the head. This really sums up the whole question. TN panels are not suitable for photography work, they're for gaming and office use.

    I have wide gamut at work and standard gamut at home, and I work between them without missing a step. Wide gamut is nice as an added bonus, but by no means necessary. The important thing is that you calibrate, so that the colors it can display are accurate.

    S
    stevenmh72Author
    Participant
    July 18, 2013

    Found an sRGB graph of the IPS panel in question. 

    I'm not that familiar with these color graphs but this doesn't look that great.  I did have a chance to use the 95% NTSC TN panel, and it was workable.  Some vertical color shift, but far better than any other TN screen I've ever used.  Very bright, calibrated to 91% NTSC.  I can buy a mechanical viewing angle gauge that attaches to the side of a screen to make sure I'm looking at it straight on.

    So, with this additional info, would you still recommend this particular IPS panel, or would the 95% TN panel do better?

    D Fosse
    Community Expert
    D FosseCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    July 21, 2013

    Viewing angle isn't about where your head is. It's about the top of the screen being too dark, and the bottom washed out. Don't even consider TN as long as you have a choice.

    As I said, and I repeat it here, gamut is the least of your concerns. And that goes for any display.

    Calibrate (and calibrate to a workable luminance, somewhere around 100 - 120 cd/m2), and you'll be fine.

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