Preparing files for print

@JKA@4153 Its been an age, but a. replyu popped up and I wanted to mention that creating this kind of 'faux CMYK profile' in Photoshop is not a good idea at all, you ideally need to work with a vendor who uses proper ICC CMYK profiles to characterise the printing process. The "custom CMYK" process you'd have to use is a holdover from Photoshop v4 back in the late 1990's as far as I know. 

 

Long Long ago digitaldog (Andrew Rodney) wrote:

 "So this Custom CMYK mode - - - 

- - don't use it, its buggy, the ink models are ancient and the SWOP definitions there have no basis in reality on the U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 profile which is based on TR001 SWOP. 

This is usually the lame recommendations of shops that don't have a clue about using modern ICC color management to define a print process. Beware. You need an ICC profile that defines either the press or better, contract proofing device used for the job."

 

 

I hope this helps

neil barstow colourmanagement - adobe forum volunteer,

colourmanagement consultant & co-author of 'getting colour right'

See my free articles on colourmanagement online

Help others by clicking "Correct Answer" if the question is answered.

Found the answer elsewhere? Share it here. "Upvote" is for useful posts

 

InDesign CS2 and CS3 don't recognize Grayscale
profiles. This was already mentioned in my doc.
It seems to be still the same for CS4.
Therefore Grayscale is labeled as Device Gray,
which means, it's unspecified. If the conversion
was done with an appropriate DotGain or an
appropriate profile like Black Ink ISOCoated, then
it's OK. It's not corrrect if Gamma=2.2 was chosen
because this is wrong for coated media.
[Black Ink ISOCoated is derived as a custom grayscale
profile by loading ISOCoated.]
Grayscale can be avoided by copying the gray image
into the K-channel of a CMYK file with empty plates
CMY. This is definitely a CMYK image.

I don't know what this means:
Black CMYK "ICC"
If it's based on an ICC profile, then the profile should
be mentioned. A new version of 'Black Ink ...' as above ?

Indexed Color means that a graphic needs only 8 bits
per pixel or one channel. It can happen that CMYK = 000K
is converted to Indexed.
This is indeed confusing. Export to PDF can be prevented
from applying this conversion:

Search your folder for PDF joboptions:
C:\Adobe CS2\Adobe Acrobat 7.0\Distillr\Settings

Choose your actual file:
filename.joboptions

And replace here
/ConvertImagesToIndexed true
'true' by 'false'

Spot inks are not indicated by Indexed but like this:
Separation Color Space Pantone 100C

In any case of doubt I'm doing some tests with small
files which contain typical ingredients.

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Okay so I found where I could check the profiles in Acrobat 9.

When I looked at what profiles were included in one particular file, it said

Device gray color space
ICCbased color space: ISONewspaper26v4
Indexed color space

When I clicked on the indexed color space and then the "Show in snap" button in order to find out which element was being tagged as indexed, I saw that it was a logo within the file. I checked out the logo and found out that it was actually a .psd file that was CMYK with transparency so I don't know why it's being tagged as index.

In another file, where I did the icc check in Acrobat I had the same result except the indexed element was a drop shadow that had been applied to an image in Illustrator.

This is all really confusing. Why are there so many different profiles when all I want is the Newspaper .icc.?

I also check a third file and the colour spaces were listed as follows:

ICCbased color space: ISONewspaper26v4
Separation color space: Black CMYK "ICC"
Alternate color space: ISONewspaper26v4

Again why are there two newspaper profiles in this file and what's the separation color space: Black CMYK "ICC"?

Nothing wrong in Post#22.

a) Convert everything from RGB to CMYK by PhS.
Keep the CMYK profile in mind, but don't embed
it in each image (the profile can be fairly large).
Export to PDF, preferably as PDF/X-1a with the
Profile as Output Intent, embedded once.
An Output Intent is used for the preview and as
an information. It not used for converting the
images into any other space.
b) Keep everything in your RGB space and embed the
profile in each image. These profiles are small.
Convert all RGB images by Acrobat Pro into CMYK,
assign this profile as Output Intent and embed
it in the PDF once. Save As by old or new name.

It would be really surprising, if Acrobat 9 shouldn't
offer something like page 7 here:
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/colpdf27022008.pdf
Perhaps this information was missing:
An ICC color space refers to an image with assigned
ICC profile. Otherwise it's a Device Color space,
which means, that each device would interpret the
numbers somewhat different.
An available Output Intent is directly indicated (at least
in CS2 ).

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

> You are saying that the mentioned workflow is no more valid for AcrobatPro 9 ? What's different ?

There must be some misunderstanding here: My workflow involved exporting the pdf from Indesign with the profile embedded. I'm trying to find where exactly in Acrobat 9 I can confirm that the profile is actually embedded. I didn't find anything in the document link you provided that gives this information - unless i'm missing something?

In Acrobat 9, I can go to the Advanced menu > print production > preflight - but I can't find anything in this complicated dialogue box that allows me to check for the existence of an embedded profile. I just thought that someone may be familiar with Acrobat 9 and may know where I can check this kind of thing.

> Yes, PDF/X-1a is ideal. Not a reason for confusion. It's absolutely correct to use the same profile for all conversions, but it's not necessary to embed it in each image.

You say it's not necessary to embed it in each image. I was reading back at your post #22 and you were saying:

> Also a good solution, after soft-proofing the RGB images by Photoshop: use RGB images, make a PDF and convert this globally into the destination space by Acrobat Professional.

So clearly from the above quote, if I was to use that workflow I not only shouldn't necessarily embed any CMYK profile in any of the images, in fact the images shouldn't be CMYK at all - they should be RGB according to your post #22. If I understand the theory correctly, if I was to use that workflow and have CMYK images, the numbers would all change when I converted to profile within Acrobat Pro, right?

You are saying that the mentioned workflow is no more
valid for AcrobatPro 9 ? What's different ?

Yes, PDF/X-1a is ideal. Not a reason for confusion.
It's absolutely correct to use the same profile
for all conversions, but it's not necessary to embed
it in each image.

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

I have Acrobat 9 - your document gives instructions for Acrobat 7 so I'm still not sure where to find out if the .icc profile is embedded.

> It might be better to export as PDF/X-1a, define newspaper.icc as Output Intent and embed the profile once. At least one should take care, that all the single CMYK images don't have embedded profiles.

I'm also confused as to why you're saying to ensure that all single CMYK images don't have embedded profiles. I thought this was what I was supposed to do, i.e embed the profile in photoshop as a first step.

>If yes, whereabouts in Acrobat can I ensure
that the newspaper.icc profile has actually
been embedded. Is there a way to verify this?

Yes, please have a look here:
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/colpdf27022008.pdf

It might be better to export as PDF/X-1a, define
newspaper.icc as Output Intent and embed the profile once.
At least one should take care, that all the single
CMYK images don't have embedded profiles.

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

Hi,

Sorry to come back to this discussion. I'm at the point now where I've finished all the design work and I'm ready to make the pdf in Indesign. I've followed your advice by converting to profile in Photoshop. I placed this image into Illustrator and did more work on the layout. I also set the working space in Illustrator to the newspaper .icc profile. After finishing work in Illustrator I placed the .eps into Indesign. In Indesign, I have the CMYK Working space set to the Newspaper .icc profile and I also converted to profile in indesign (not sure if I needed to convert to profile in Indesign if the working space is set to the newspaper .icc profile??).

So now I'm at the stage where I need to pdf the file. I export to pdf and in the "general settings" I choose "create tagged pdf" (not sure if this has anything to do with the profile). Then under output I choose "No colour conversion" and also "Include all profiles".

Can you tell me if I have these settings correct? If yes, whereabouts in Acrobat can I ensure that the newspaper .icc profile has actually been embedded. Is there a way to verify this?