Working with Non Color Managed graphics apps before Photoshop

Hi Jeff

You write:

With most higher end displays being wide gamut, if you work in almost any 3D apps, the output from the framebuffers are generally not color managed. Thus, color decisions you make are being done in the native gamut of the display, even if it's calibrated and profiled.

I've only ever come up with a few options to deal with this:

1) Make larger color decisions in the non color managed environment and once you import into PS, you have to do some conversions and assignments of profiles to get it to match, but it's not an ideal solution.

As you write - not ideal, plenty of time a wasted in that process

2) If you have higher end displays, force your display into an sRGB or aRGB color space and then calibrate and profile. That way the framebuffer more closely matches a standard device independent color space and you can still use color management.

Yes, if you have WG [Wide Gamut] displays that's is what I would do, set gamut to sRGB during calibration [colornavigator can do that, for example] - of course doing that does “waste” the potential of the WG display somewhat, but until the issue of vital app's without colourmanagement is sorted, it's pretty much the only workable solution. Of course you can "switch" gamuts, [perhaps to an Adobe RGB calibration] when using Photoshop etc. but that might well be tedious.

Those 3D apps aren’t cheap, though, and people are judging colour, the developers really should be working on implementing colourmanagement! You users should perhaps get together on this, petition them. look how Adobe InDesign knocked Quark off the top step of the rostrum by doing colourmanagement right when Quark's was pretty awful.

3) Don't buy high gamut displays.

Yeah, a possibility, but it may be getting more difficult to do that as WG is more widely adopted. Or maybe connect a second non WG display for judging the 3D work.

Which brings me to my question. Aside from has anyone else figured out a better workflow, some people I know are calibrating their displays, but abandoning the use of the generated display profile and instead leaving windows in its default sRGB color management settings. 

not a good idea at all

As I'm a Mac user and don't run into this, I was curious if doing this has the same effect as clamping the gamut at the hardware?

NO

Is this just a software version of this?  Doing this basically throws out all color management, but basically converts everything to the same color space (sRGB) and then the outputs regardless of the application match. 

Thats not a description of what happens

I'm unclear what window's CM system is actually doing if left unaltered vs actually setting up proper CM.

OK, the “display” profile does not “clamp the display gamut.

PLUS if your WG display is calibrated to Adobe RGB gamut (approx) then using sRGB as the display profile will create issues with appearance.

Your Photoshop image viewing would be toasted by doing that. Photoshop needs the correct display profile.

In summary:  For accurate image and colour assessment on screen - the monitor display system must be properly calibrated & profiled - and the system / app's (where possible) must be provided with the correct ICC profile [in system settings].

I hope this helps

if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution

thanks

neil barstow, colourmanagement

>> With most higher end displays being wide gamut, if you work in almost any 3D apps, the output from the framebuffers are generally not color managed.

it is almost impossible for most people to edit sRGB color (with any degree of accuracy) in a non-colormanaged environment using a so-called wide-gamut monitor

>> some people I know are calibrating their displays, but abandoning the use of the generated display profile and instead leaving windows in its default sRGB color management settings.  As I'm a Mac user and don't run into this, I was curious if doing this has the same effect as clamping the gamut at the hardware? Is this just a software version of this?  Doing this basically throws out all color management, but basically converts everything to the same color space (sRGB) and then the outputs regardless of the application match.

i really lost you there after your first sentence - but if your destination color environment is based on sRGB you may do better at your "3" option above (either "Don't buy high gamut displays," you wrote, or set an sRGB preset on your monitor and hardware profile it, as someone else wrote).

>> I'm unclear what window's CM system is actually doing if left unaltered vs actually setting up proper CM.

the last time i looked at Windows - it passed through the source RGB 'numbers' to the monitor without altering them

and the half-color managed Windows apps (Adobe excluded) Assigned/Assumed sRGB then Converted

i am not so sure Windows OS and "proper CM" go hand in hand (until you introduce an app that actually reads an embedded ICC profile and Converts to a proofing space, like a monitor for example

but your milage may vary...

A wide gamut display absolutely requires full color management at all times. End of story.

So you have three options:

• set your display to emulate sRGB. Most wide gamut models can do that. Of course, that's a monumental waste of money.
• don't use applications without color management. Just don't.
• or if you absolutely have to, ignore what you see.

To be clear, a standard gamut display is also inaccurate without color management. A wide gamut one is just more inaccurate. A question of degrees.