Offline first web development.

I don't know how I should interpret most of the remarks in this discussion... a real divergence of views

but not only in terms of technologies, also in terms of content and communication approaches... in my opinion there is no website that cannot be ported as an application, all sites need to refresh their data regularly, and not only those oriented towards trade

CAUTION read carefully the fact that I said that the sites can, I did not say must

so what is the vision of the web that we have? a regressive and conservative web or a web oriented towards the reality of needs (whatever that reality is, we don't have to judge it)

people go to work and use their smartphone, watch, tablet during their travel time. there again we don't have to judge... the web has become that.

not being able to interact with the site under the pretext that the connection is too weak, or even non-existent, and was only a few tens of seconds, makes the usability of the site inadequate

understand a PWA approach and especially understand what the web has become (in terms of content and look and feel) is essential to continue this discussion, otherwise it becomes inconsistent

let's take four basic sites that present,

- for the first one a folk dance association,

- for the second one a baker who makes his own bread,

- a third being a blog on pollinating insects,

- and finally one last one on a teenage basketball team from any neighborhood....

you will notice that I only took examples there that are almost uninteresting from the point of view of the web of objects, or of a hyper-connected web....

and well free for us to still offer users a tool in the form of a web app in a PWA approach....

already, on their first visit, the site will offer them to place an icon on the desktop, in order to access the content more quickly, or not if the browser is not compatible, but the site will still be accessible to them

and if the user validates the option then the fine management of the cache will take over (I'm not talking about an apache management that will put files aside...)... no I'm talking about knowingly controlling what is hidden for what purpose and under what circumstances of refresh.

then each of these examples can propose continuously updated information and this...; without the user reloading the page... what for example?

for the first, the programme of rehearsals, upcoming shows, board meetings, interconnections with other folk dance associations, etc... etc... etc...

the second could announce, the placing in the shop of special breads and/or linked to the ceremonies of the moment (galettes des rois, Christmas celebrations, Sunday bread, typical and exceptional specialities, etc...), morning buns with the buns on offer, online cake reservation, specific request with particular flours by consumers.... etc. as a result, even if users no longer have a connection, they will not have a spinning wheel, they will still be able to interoperate with the interfaces and their order will be validated as soon as the connection is returned, or the tunnel exit...

the third would propose the calendar for planting flowers, vegetables, trees, condiments... the periods and areas of pollen coverage for those who are allergic to them, in real time and adapted to the user's region, the sheets of each insect that the geolocated region can always overflow, what they are useful for, how to protect them, or what to prepare for them in the garden to host them, etc......

and finally for the fourth the dates of matches and training, the festivities linked to the team in order to collect funds, the live scores during the matches, the rankings according to the results of the other teams... and so on....

not to mention that each of these sites can be linked if necessary to web cams, or/and to various and varied objects that can inject data if necessary or add to their contacts, and/or their agendas the various events ...

so once again... the visualization and connection comfort remains a major commitment, between the developer, the customer and the end users....

Let's not forget that besides that PWAs remain web apps in their own right and therefore can access a large number (growing every day) of features natively integrated into browsers https://whatwebcando.today/

of course the web has not waited for PWAs to offer this kind of service, PWAs are only the result by integrating all the necessary mechanisms to avoid having to install an application (which would be device dependent) and which greatly improves the user experience.

so the more our web app blends into the device's OS, the better the user experience will be... and that's still up to the PWAs

Sorry everybody, but yesterday I must have been having one of my senior days, because along with forgetting words, I also forgot to post something I would have done on a normal day .

That is the W3C's latest roadmap for web applications, which includes all of what can now be done for PWA's, (inc. browser support charts) so here is the link -

https://www.w3.org/2019/04/web-roadmaps/mobile/

What maybe food for thought, is that the W3C publishes a roadmap for mobile, (most of which can be used in desktop browsers) but by saying it is a 'roadmap for mobile', it shows the importance of mobile devices and what they can do.

BenPleysier​

So Ben, what do you think?

The problem of clients moving to quick and cheap site builders is probably just, (or even more) as important a question, as the inclusion of offline content.

Without more info from Ben, the reasons he is loosing clients to wix and other web presence solutions, can only be guessed at. That said there is a tendancy now for developers to over complicate things, (from workflows to code) without knowing just what the client and end user actually requires.

I asked a question a few months ago, about features, (how they look and work) in web sites, with the general opinion being that they will not evolve any further, unless there is a radical shift brought about by 'outside' influences, (be that browser or devices).

If that general opinion is true, then all anyone neads to do these days is include popular features. Which can be done by anyone, even those with no skill. The layout itself just requires looking at sites one likes.

So the question of loosing clients becomes one of, 'what can developers offer', after all, if all one gets is a mini, no one will pay for a rolls-royce.

BenPleysier  wrote Maybe this will give us 'professionals' the edge over the likes of wix - lost my second customer in as many months to a wixer.

Oh well you're part of the problem not the answer, being a Wappler user. Reap what you sow in the kindest possible way I just keep doing what I do and hope that there are enough sensible clients out there that appreciate knowledge and skill. Infact I dont really care these days, it is what it is and at this late stage of my career it all really makes little difference to me personally but I'm going to continue to fight for the 'professional' corner as much as I think it a lost cause at the lower-end of the market.

I did investigate this once and its useless for anything you want to keep up-to-date on a daily basis as its always outdated information. Im sure its good for something - information which rarely changes I would assume.

I think the tendency would be to assume the app information is always up-to-date which is potentially dangerous. As Paula suggests basic 'static' information works fine but anything critical just doesnt get pushed to the app until the user reconnects.

unlike Paula ( ), Ben I share your point of view and I find your remark very relevant.

whatever the size of the company, and whatever the nature of the website, the fact that on the one hand it is possible to manage the caching in a very fine way is something that makes the usability of the application much more flexible.

and on the other hand, being able to orient the heavy mechanisms on parallel threads is an almost unavoidable necessity. Many processes can block the loading and painting flexibility of the pages

thanks for both links I have seen them before... I will prepare a snack, lie down on a deckchair (the sun is still only shy for the moment, and so take advantage of this ephemeral freshness to project them on the terrace.... thanks

Before I forget. I did discuss the future requierments of offline usage, with Scott, (a long time ago) just after the release of CS5, and a number of proplems when creating them, (and possible solutions) in a very old now discussion in this forum.

At the time many, (so called experts) people said it was not required as html5 etc would not be usable untill the 2020's, (Scott did disagree with that view) but what happened in Adobe/Dw managment regarding the problems/solutions presented I obviously have no idea, and Scott left Adobe after CS6.

I'm going to 'promote' a slightly different reason for, (or against) the offline browser based web app/site.

In the app I was part of, offline was an essential feature, but I'm not certain if it would be relevant in many circumstances beyond having the location of a small buisness 'stored' in a browser for viewing when offline. My reason for saying that, is that although a technical or commerce browser based app, often requires the information be stored for the user when offline, but a small buisness that depends on 'footfall' rather than online requirerments, would only have an essential of allowing the user to physicaly locate the business.

Maybe I'm looking at small business requirements from a large organisation/commercial viewpoint though. As I admit my experiance with small or even medium sized sites is almost none existant in the last 10 years.