Stored procedures / Commands in Dreamweaver?

Thanks, I do realize that DW is a small part of it.

I also agree that W3 is really just a basic resource... not a great
learning source.

Given that, DW is my jumping off point and if I can't figure out how to
plug this other stuff in, learning the other stuff is really pointless.

I know that probably seems a bit odd to you programmer sorts but to
those of us that don't have the advantage that you programmers have,
it's a slippery squid.

The interface of DW tends to step one through the process and I feel
comfortable with that. At one point, in the early years of ASP and DW,
you had to create connections by hand. Using DW, I learned all that and
created connections and created basic database sites for some local car
dealerships. Than came Ultradev which made it easier which was then
picked up by DW. When that happened, my life got really easy as a
designer doing programming. I bought some good extensions and I was set
for a few years. Now? I find myself facing the proverbial brick
wall...AGAIN. It's something I'll never get used to.

As is apparent, and as you have mentioned, the DW interface only goes so
far to help. Eventually one must "go outside." That's what I am
intending; it's what I've been doing for years with everything else that
I've been faced with. I've found that I can spend countless hours facing
off with this other material only to find, after looking at it for days,
that I don't REALLY know how to "plug it in."

As I started off with this thread, if only there was a good book that
stepped me through this in a very fundamental way; you know, "SP for
Dummies" sort of thing. Perhaps then I could easily transition to SP.
Once I get a good foothold in it, I can then move out from there and
examine the "database world" as you recommended. It's really all about
baby steps for me.

Anyways, I get what you are saying and I will look at that stuff. What I
really need now is some good tutorials.
>
> Hope that helps you get a handle on things. But remember that DW is a very
> small part of the equation here; it can merely help you call the procedure.
> All the internals of the procedure are part of the database world, and
> you'll need to look in appropriate places.
>
>

"Lee" <lee_nospam_@artjunky.com> wrote in message
news:ep7t3k$72t$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> So hear I am, 12 years it this career finding out that "everyone" is using
> this "Stored Procedures" thing and here I am wondering how it snuck up on
> me; though I was doing pretty good. Unfortunately, I have found that a yet
> a new can of worms awaits me.

Well, stored procedures are part of the database programming world. You'd
be hard-pressed to find any in-depth information from the web design world.
A typical help site for DW users will tell you how to add a call to a stored
procedure to your page (via the command object). What causes some confusion
is that a command object can also take normal queries (INSERT, UPDATE,
DELETE), not just stored procedure calls. The beauty of a stored procedure
is that it can do a great number of things in a single call to the database;
for a simple example, you might have a procedure that will accept a user
name as a parameter, then return data based on the user's settings and time
of day plus record the fact that the user requested the data, the time of
the request, number of records returned, etc.

> I will take another look at the W3 areas that you mentioned.

W3 Schools are more of a reference than a learning site.
First, make sure you know basic queries:
www.sqlcourse.com
www.sqlcourse2.com

After that, the simplest stored procedures simply encapsulate those queries.
Instead of running an INSERT to add a user, you'd EXEC the AddUser
procedure, which might be a simple INSERT, or it might do any number of
other things in the mean time, the scope of which depends both on your
database's capabilites and your wishes (SQL Server can even send an e-mail
from inside the stored procedure, encapsulating the commonly requested
insert-and-email scenario). It also means you can change the AddUser
procedure's internals without ever touching your web page (unless you change
the expected parameters, of course).

Hope that helps you get a handle on things. But remember that DW is a very
small part of the equation here; it can merely help you call the procedure.
All the internals of the procedure are part of the database world, and
you'll need to look in appropriate places.

Lionstone,

Yep, that's where I want to be. Thanks for your ideas.

I'm sure I'm making too much of this but the problem I have is that
unless I can relate it back to Dreamweaver somehow or see it in action,
it doesn't make much sense to me. If someone were to sit next to me and
show me how to do a few of these things, I think I'd have it. Lion,
perhaps you could write a book about this? Perhaps you tie these
advanced skills together?

However, it's the old paradox of not knowing what you don't know. IN
other words, if I don't know that I don't know what I need then how can
I know to change it?

So hear I am, 12 years it this career finding out that "everyone" is
using this "Stored Procedures" thing and here I am wondering how it
snuck up on me; though I was doing pretty good. Unfortunately, I have
found that a yet a new can of worms awaits me.

As I have probably mentioned, I'm not a programmer by nature or really
by trade (Graduated with a degree in Clothing Design) and I've had no
formal training in programming. What I've learned has been a long a
difficult road on my own. I've been through the W3 school many times,
I've purchased many books and anything I can think of to get through the
brick walls that I invariably run into. Because I am not a programmer,
it's tough and I just don't know where to get this information from.
\
I will take another look at the W3 areas that you mentioned.

Thanks Again!





Lionstone wrote:

>
> Some developers would go so far as to say your web site should do nothing
> except execute stored procedures; all the details should be in those
> procedures or implemented as part of the database design (triggers,
> constraints, etc).

"Tom Muck" <tommuck@NO-SPAM-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ep5upq$qp4$1@forums.macromedia.com...
> And access to tables should be completely shut off. They shouldn't exist,
> as far as the web application is concerned.
>
> Tom

Amen.

> Some developers would go so far as to say your web site should do nothing
> except execute stored procedures; all the details should be in those
> procedures or implemented as part of the database design (triggers,
> constraints, etc).

And access to tables should be completely shut off. They shouldn't exist, as
far as the web application is concerned.

Tom

You're looking in the wrong place.
The command object is rather simple; you pass it a query, some parameters,
and tell it to execute. You're not going to find much about it because
there's not much to it. The most "advanced" thing you need to know is that
DW sets commands to execute while the page is loading; if you want to wait
until after a form submits, that detail is left as an exercise for the user.
To learn the "really advanced" stuff, you'll need to concentrate on learning
SQL and the specific flavor of extended SQL used by your database (PL/SQL,
T-SQL, etc).
For a list of the various values that the command object's properties can
take (for instance, CommandType = ?), www.w3schools.com provides a good
reference in their "Learn ADO" section. They also have lists of the
properties for parameters (the data type and direction being particularly
important). DW can handle that part with some minor exceptions, such as DW
not knowing about GUID columns.

Some developers would go so far as to say your web site should do nothing
except execute stored procedures; all the details should be in those
procedures or implemented as part of the database design (triggers,
constraints, etc).


"Lee" <lee_nospam_@artjunky.com> wrote in message
news:ep5f3p$7po$1@forums.macromedia.com...
>I was wondering what the best source for learning how to use Stored
>procedures (COMMANDS) in Dreamweaver. I've looked around but I couldn't
>find much. Finding a good book that is advanced and complete enough is
>impossible.
>
> For those of you out there that want to write a book, write about advanced
> Dreamweaver stuff.
>
> I don't mean quasi-advanced, I mean really advanced stuff that finishes
> off the whole process of learning Dreamweaver and Databases.
>
> What I wish for is a really good advanced Dreamweaver book that was
> actually geared towards REAL advanced users. Basically, if the book shows
> you how to connect to a database, it's not advanced enough...in my
> opinion.
>
> At this point, getting at this sort of knowledge involves going to school,
> having a good support system or really good books. Now these newgroups are
> great and all of you help a great deal but raise your hands if you really
> want to take the time to explain to me how "Commands" work with
> Dreamweaver and all the rest. I don't think I'm going back to school for
> programming any time soon so that pretty much leaves finding a book or
> website and filling in with the newsgroups.
>
> Thanks for listening.