Legend

Question

The web is changing, or is it!

Forum|Forum|7 years ago
September 10, 2018
3 replies
1069 views

We have all probably read or even responded to another post, which eventually ended up more about accessibility and 'other' concerns, than the actual original question. So what I was wondering after taking part in that discussion, is how the profession of web design/development has changed for everyone since you first started out, and have you diversified since staring out?

With Adobe cancelling Muse, and saying that 'web site builder' offering from go-daddy, wix, squarespace, (as examples) have made Muse 'old fashioned' and no longer required, and frameworks such as bootstrap and foundation, along with the large number of starter pages, wordpress themes and/or templates available, has the way we work now changed so much that one person working on their own, or with just one or two others, finally made the 'lone' developer or small web shop an unrealistic way of working in the long term.

Both myself and I think Birnou also, are I think generally happy in our work. The difference between what we do and what most posters and contributors to this forum, (and other web development related forums) is the diversity of how we work and the never ending diversity of what we code and/or manage, and that we work on larger projects in teams that can be anywhere in the world.

Do you think that for the web developer to be able to make a living now and in the future, and find long term stability and satisfaction in their work, competing in an ever decreasing return environment such as building and maintaining a small business site, and having to learn more and more, is no longer a long term career anymore, or do you think that the small team or individual web developer working alone still has a future.

For me, I don't think creating small sites has more than a 'starter' position now, something that allows the developer to gain the experiance required to move forward, and on to 'other things'. The requirerments of building browser based applications, is not something that one person can do alone, and unless you have some form of 'back-up' income to fall back on should it be required, the lone developer for small sites is working for an ever decreasing income as younger people, and students with fewer overheads can always undercut the price.

The discussion mentioned was -

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2532294

This topic has been closed for replies.

B i r n o u

Legend

pziecina a écrit
Do you think that for the web developer to be able to make a living now and in the future, and find long term stability and satisfaction in their work, competing in an ever decreasing return environment such as building and maintaining a small business site, and having to learn more and more, is no longer a long term career anymore, or do you think that the small team or individual web developer working alone still has a future.

I think it will all depend on the quality of services that a developer can provide for his customers.

There are a large number of niche markets and by specializing in one (or some) of them, it is possible in my opinion to earn a decent living.

the idea of working alone, isolated, or in scattered groups, is then only a question of personality and individual research.

as far as I am concerned, I think that the complementarity of a team is always desirable and beneficial to everyone

the tools all around us are increasingly refined in this sense

pziecinaAuthor

Legend

https://forums.adobe.com/people/B+i+r+n+o+u wrote
There are a large number of niche markets and by specializing in one (or some) of them, it is possible in my opinion to earn a decent living.
the idea of working alone, isolated, or in scattered groups, is then only a question of personality and individual research.
as far as I am concerned, I think that the complementarity of a team is always desirable and beneficial to everyone
the tools all around us are increasingly refined in this sense

Thank you for the replys Birnou. It is always interesting to know where people started, and where they are going.

I fully agree with the first paragraph above, in that specialisation in the market is the way forward. I found that doing so, (especially if one has previously worked in that type of work) means that it is easier to understand the requirerments, and create an application to meet the end users needs. It is often also then possible, to advise the client better, and in most cases the client will be willing to invest more time, money and effort in the project.

I don't think it is possible for an individual working alone to do everything that a large application requires on their own. As an example, is it easy to do one aspect of specialist application, but as we all know most things that are generally placed under one heading can be broken down into a number of sub specialisations, (e.g. Aeronautics can involve anything from aerodynamics as a speciality, to sheet metal work).

I personally would say that the web is growing up, in that it is being used more and more as a means of conveying specialist requirements to those who require them, (often in a way that is not open to the public, and for that reason such applications are never seen by anyone not authorised). The days of the small buisness site, not offering anything more than static info being a means of a web designer/developer earning a good income, are I think dying. If that is a good or bad thing I will not comment on, except to say that small buisnesses are now looking at the return on investment a web site brings, and if it is not more than a simple, (and often free) social network presence, they will not have a web site.

Or in other words, the web users are now much more aware of what the web can do than previous generations.

osgood_

Legend

pziecina wrote
The days of the small buisness site, not offering anything more than static info being a means of a web designer/developer earning a good income, are I think dying.

I actually dont know, there is just more poor websites or will be being created via click and drag applications at very low prices, but if you are prepared to bash out low grade websites, not very welll thought about and designed, I think it could still be financially quite rewarding. The problem is clients get sold a pup, because they are not being advised correctly, which costs money of course.

I've just looked at an example website produced by one of these no-coding editors and its quite poor in terms of how much time has been spent on the layout, particularly when it comes to mobile devices, which obvioulsy takes more time effort and money to get right. Its got a fair amount of functionality granted, but introduced in a very messy way. Its the finer functionality and design details which in my opinion make a website look professional.

So my view is if you are of the background where design doesnt much matter to you either as a developer or client and are happy to accept under-performing design/layout there still could be a good market (those who come into the profession via other walks of un-creative life will mostly fit in this category and back-end coders) That rules me out as competing because I couldnt lower my expectations and I would not want to work for clients with that lower expectation, although I do but generlly give a better service than I really should for the renumeration received.

Sometimes I think it is better to see a career as a cash-cow rather than something you do because you have a passion and desire to want to be good at it - you'll probably be more financially successful because your expections and the necessity to produce anything that is of quality (either because you are oblivious to what quality is or are restricted by budgets or your skills) are usually much less.

So I think there could still be opportunties for those that just want to make some money and not fret too much over the final product they produce.

I think if you are an individual or small company that has quality in the forethought of your mind and not financial reward as the primary motivator thats when it will get harder as you wont be able to find the clients that match with your expectations, the big boys will have snaffled those up.

B i r n o u

Legend

pziecina a écrit
So what I was wondering after taking part in that discussion, is how the profession of web design/development has changed for everyone since you first started out, and have you diversified since staring out?

is that during the years of work, there have been changes????..... uh!!!!!

well without wanting to play it old, when I started programming, we were in procedural mode and following the processor we had access to 40 columns on 4 colors, and the Apple II+ they always offered on 40 columns 6 colors... so in order to program the monopoly (which held on 20ko) it was necessary to flash continuously the modes to get the number of colors necessary...

then the first CD-Roms created under Macromind were made in grayscale... then the 256-color screens became more democratic... it was necessary to juggle with Quantum Debabebliser to create and set up super palettes (whereas microsoft and apple took no less than 40 colors on the color chart)

at about the same time the web started to stagger and on the BBS we started to exchange animated gifs !!!! it was a revolution... it was necessary to think DHTML and not to be exclusive between JavaScript, JScript... in short the DOM was not yet decided and was divided between LAYER and ALL

and then the computers equipped with V-Ram allowed to have fun with more consequent animations (by remaining reasonable on 160 by 120) with Cinepak (256 colors). At that time I had the chance to know Chris(topher) Hull who worked on Quick Time before he joined the team that set up Netscape. (so switch from C to Java)

and then, quickly in the early mid-1990s, the curve became exponential and languages and technologies piled up, Macromedia revolutionized the web by acquiring Shockwave (DCR) and then future Splash which became SWF... and its very avant-garde slogan "create once, publish everywhere" led us into an exceptionally brilliant adventure... I had the chance to be embarked on a team of enthusiasts and could play to learn.

that's also when I had the chance to meet Peter Small and to be invited, with many others, to his virtual cafe (common access for everybody)... object-oriented programming was a revelation

IIS servers lacked freedom... and PHP surrounded by Apache and Tomcat, although qualified with all the names of birds by Bill Gate, came to the rescue and they all brought us the necessary air to finally open the CDrom partitions, the encapsulated web and extensions like Multiuser Server, Golden Gate server allowed to couple the environments and create what we called Web-Rom.

Intel getting closer to Macromedia allowed us to integrate a 3D rendering engine not very powerful, but combined with Havok and Realviz technologies... woahwwww..... it was magic... OpenGL couldn't fight and Shockwave (dcr not swf) became an excellent simple and fantastic companion

and then next to Opera and the first sympathetic phones, I think of the nokia 6600... appeared a new possibility of publication, iphone arrived followed or preceded closely by its cousins palm, symbian, android, blackberry, and with a new playground arrived, no more gif, long live the WBMP... WAP and WML....

it's true that at the same time (just earlier) a laron was beginning to stutter that we no longer left XML.... and there too what a revolution in the approach to our applications and the work of Peter Small (met above) made sense... it's no longer the application that created the document, but the document that created the application... the step was taken... and the application was only asking...

so it took 10 years for Jeffrey Zeldman's pushes (and his buddies) for the w3c to recognize whatwg, for html to become free, for JavaScript to be recognized and for the new partitions inherited from the old web to fall... the web has taken a new momentum...

Node was born and the speed has accelerated again... a profusion of new tools, frameworks and ways of doing things have appeared, there are so many of them and so many that sometimes it is difficult to choose... but that of happiness... finally we manage to focus more and more on the content and creation of this content than on the setting up of the scaffolding that allows us to do so

the web has finally become an application and especially exponential... the PWAs are there... what will tomorrow be?... it is up to us all to build it and continue the adventure...

how to earn a living... uh.... easy to say may not be easy to do... forget the system... have fun, learn, always learn, have fun... be curious, try, experiment, network, meet, share, be generous... the rest should come alone

osgood_

Legend

pziecina wrote
We have all probably read or even responded to another post, which eventually ended up more about accessibility and 'other' concerns, than the actual original question. So what I was wondering after taking part in that discussion, is how the profession of web design/development has changed for everyone since you first started out, and have you diversified since staring out?

Web-development/design has obviously changed out of all recognisation since I started. Is that bad, no not really that's progress. Each old generation eventually dies or retires and another is born, that's the way I look at it. I guess anyone starting out in the last 5-10 years knows no different way of working other than the use of frameworks, whether they be front-end css/js or back-end frameworks. Is it something that I think is skillful, no, it's robotic, a short-cut to an end result where swathes of new developers are forced into to making money for their pay masters, who dont give a jot about their employees mental health, well-being or job satisfaction as long as they become rich off the back of someone else's 'suffering'

Little job satisfaction can be acquired by using a click and select or point and shoot work approach in my opinion. Of course job satifaction is usually not a factor if you have arrived in web development from a different walk of life. I always find those people adjust and adapt better as they have no real deep seated passion for the job, they just jump from one 'career' to another. I always think job satisfation is more important, that is why I'm not rich I guess but at least I have been true to my beliefs right throughout my career, I've never done anything purely for financial gain.

I actually would not want to be starting out in web-development now or even half way through my career given the sad and confusing state of the business today. I read all the time, from other developers, that there is no direction, they dont know where to start, what to learn so as to optimise their chnaces of prolonging their career of even getting a foot-hold. If you've ever written your own code, you'll know that their is literally dozens of ways to write exactly the same thing, which in my opinion does not help clarify the way ahead, who do you believe/follow, is one method better than the other, they all work.

What makes me sad is the numerous very highly skilled developers who havent been able to make it alone. Being an individual myself I have followed several individual devlopers with a 'cottage industry' workflow, excellent design and not bad coding skills either, most better than mine. All but a few of these small developers have now gone. I have to believe they could not make it on their own. Most, although obviously having exeptional skills I could see were producing small sites, maybe anything from £500 to £2000. Well its easy to work out - to make even a half decent living at £500 a website you'd need to be producing in excess of 50 websites a year and its transparent that is just not feasable. Even at £2000 or slightly more youd need to be producing in excess of 14/15 website a year and that is not feasable either, for most. There is no-repeat business if you supply a CMS.

So yes, I agree unless you have an exceptional skill and some do, are very lucky or you are attached to an agency providing the freelance work I dont think the smaller enterprise has a cat in hells chance of making it now.

Just to clarify my own position I'm fortunate enough to have had a good career in DTP as a freelancer and some in web development. I no longer need to work but do just to fill in some time but I expect to fully retire within the next few years or re-evaluate the kind of work I do. I continue to learn and diversify on a daily basis, more so these days than in the passed, if you dont you'll be swept away quickly!

pziecinaAuthor

Legend

Thanks for the reply Os, and yes I did think that only you would reply .

I am now on my third attempt at retirerment, and like both the previouse times I have once again started to look around at what is happening in web development, and the discussion that prompted me to start this discussion has reminded me of a number of previous assesments I made regarding the state of the profession.

Since the dot com crash, I have watched the profession change dramatically and the only time I have seen a real increase in what people are earning was with the rise in mobile devices and the social network. Both of which required a change in how sites are built, and how businesses are promoted themselves, (I'll get to device specific apps in a moment).

Both the requirerment for rwd sites and managing social networks, has I have noticed taken a 'hit' over the last few years, with many people managing their own social network profiles, and those that required rwd updates to their sites having already done so, (prices that one can charge have now stagnated, or even dropped). New clients are now tech savy enough that they no longer require any help when it comes to the social web, and with the knowlege required to produce an 'acceptable' site using wordpress, (or even a web site builder program) being almost universal now, the small buisness 'start ups' do not require web designers or developers.

The big change I have seen this time though is with device specific apps. Previously that was a growing market, (doomed to failure) but the requirerment for them has now literally 'dropped off the cliff edge'. I think clients for device specific apps have finally come to realise that they did not offer a return on investment that even a basic web site offered.

The only growth area I have seen is in the browser based large application market. Which is slowly becomming a 'closed shop' that only the larger in-house or multi-national teams can compete in. This is not to say that a lone developer could not build such an application, more that a lone developer cannot maintain and update such an application long term, and meet all the ever increasing requirerments.

osgood_

Legend

pziecina wrote
Thanks for the reply Os, and yes I did think that only you would reply .

I think we are among the few with any real passion around these parts, most of the others are robots, using pre-formatted robotic workflows. If they are in the business it's probably the only way they can survive in the race to the bottom or as they age and become less capable of digesting and retaining a more hands-on approach, given the seemingly endless learning curve. It never was an option for me and never will be. Or they could just be in denial, not wanting to face the truth, or highly successful, we shall never know.

One thing for sure though I don't lose sleep over it any longer, whatever will be will be........I think soemtimes you can become too obsessed and forget there is life beyond a computer screen. I'm in a pretty good place now in terms of what I decide to do going forward but some maybe don't have that luxury.

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