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designb19019880
Participant
August 7, 2023
Answered

Client being harassed by The Type Founders for using Proxima Nova font on website

  • August 7, 2023
  • 4 replies
  • 32219 views

Firstly, I'd like to express how appalled my team and I are by Adobes lack of service around this issue. We are now seeking help on this forum as we simply cannot get through to Adobe via phone/email. We've been handed around to 13+ different representatives on the phone, we've been transferred to numerous people and then hung up on, we’ve been put on hold and then hung up on, and we've been provided a support email to contact (support@adobe.com) which does not work. This has been going on for about 3 weeks now. To say the least, we a absolutely disgusted by the support, so I really hope this reaches someone at Adobe or a community member who could kindly help us instead. 

 

We have used the font Proxima Nova on a website for our client using the Adobe Web Project method. Our client is now being harassed and threatened by a company called The Type Founders who claim to work on behalf of the owner of the font (who we believe are legitimate). They are claiming that we have illegally downloaded the font Proxima Nova, and are incorrectly using it by ‘self hosting’. We have access to this font through Adobe Fonts, and are using it on this website through Adobe Web Project (as mentioned). This company are claiming that we need to purchase the font in order to continue using it. Just to note, since this issue arose we have removed the font temporarily until the matter is resolved.

 

The one useful Adobe representative we spoke to on the phone last week mentioned that numerous people are having trouble with the Adobe licencing with this particular font. She said that Adobe may not have the appropriate licencing for this font listed on the website – unsure if this is reliable information or not, but thought I’d mention, as if this is the case, there should be more information clearly visible on the font’s webpage about how to use it correctly.

 

From our understanding, we have used the font in the correct way (according to the Adobe Web Project method). However, our client does not have an Adobe subscription, so we concerned that we are not covered by the Adobe licence due to this: https://helpx.adobe.com/fonts/using/font-licensing.html.

 

What we’d like to know is, have we used the font incorrectly and what can we do? Is this company ‘The Type Founders’ even legitimate like we believe them to be or should we just ingore their email? Our client is intimidated and stressed, and we’d like to have a clear answer for them.

 

We’d also like to know how other studios around the globe use Adobe fonts on client websites. Do your clients create Adobe accounts every time you use an Adobe font on their website?

 

We’d really appreciate some help on this. Thank you.

 

      Correct answer Mr32296722eaxl

      The Terms of Use are very clear: https://helpx.adobe.com/nz/fonts/using/font-licensing.html#web-client

      "Can I use web fonts for my client websites?

      The Terms of Use do not permit reselling beyond December 31, 2019. After that time, the client's website must load Adobe Fonts from their own Creative Cloud subscription to ensure that there isn't any interruption to the font licensing or web font hosting."

      4 replies

      M
      Mr32296722eaxlCorrect answer
      Participant
      September 14, 2023

      The Terms of Use are very clear: https://helpx.adobe.com/nz/fonts/using/font-licensing.html#web-client

      "Can I use web fonts for my client websites?

      The Terms of Use do not permit reselling beyond December 31, 2019. After that time, the client's website must load Adobe Fonts from their own Creative Cloud subscription to ensure that there isn't any interruption to the font licensing or web font hosting."

        c51281582
        c51281582
        Participant
        September 5, 2023

        As of at least January 1, 2020, any client for whom you create a website must have their own Creative Cloud subscription to ensure they have a valid license to serve fonts from Adobe Fonts to their site. Alternatively, they could obtain a web font license for self-hosting directly from the owner of the fonts in question. (While Mark Simonson designed Proxima Nova, his fonts now owned by The Type Founders, a private equity-backed entity. I'd recommend licensing fonts owned by independent designers, as you'll find they're more reasonable when it comes to licensing.)

          B
          Community Expert
          Bobby HendersonCommunity Expert
          Community Expert
          September 5, 2023

          I'm not sure if I can make sense of that policy. Many businesses and organizations who hire web designers and developers to build web sites are not going to be doing the web hosting work themselves. Very often the site designers/developers help set that up via some third party hosting service. I might be able to understand a web hosting company needing its own Creative Cloud accounts (possibly for multiple reasons). Requiring clients to buy font licenses and/or subscriptions to Creative Cloud when they don't do creative work for a living sounds very ridiculous and kind of scary.

           

          If every business I designed a sign for had to buy licenses of the fonts I used in their projects it would create severe problems that would ultimately blow right back at the type designers themselves. I already spend a serious amount of money on commercial fonts for my own uses. If my graphic design clients had to buy font files they don't need simply because I used them in a design project they would be pretty upset. In turn, I would end up being very limited on what kinds of type I could safely use in any designs. Ultimately I would end up buying far less commercial fonts or just quit buying them at all. Why would I spend hundreds of dollars on a commercial type family if I couldn't use it in commercial design projects for businesses? I'm not buying fonts just to admire how they look. A commercial fonts purchase is supposed to be an investment; if I couldn't safely use the fonts in graphic design projects then there's no point in buying them in the first place.

          2
          2Drew4U
          Participating Frequently
          September 14, 2023

          I imagine the website is in large part your client's IP? I'd guess that would make it solely their licensing responsibility and rather than you or even your hosting provider's, but I'm not a lawyer. It's pretty annoying that you pretty much have to be a lawyer to really figure out font licensing. I wonder if there are any "font lawyers" out there that specialize in this field. Isn't that one of the things I pay Adobe for?

           

          I can understand your point from a practical perspective, but OTOH, I'd rather not take on the legal licensing burden for all of my clients website content just because it's more convenient.

           

          Y
          YourDesignerAsh
          Participant
          August 23, 2023

          I'm having the same issue with one of my clients, and they are continuing to ask for licensing. I've responded to let them know I hold a subscription to Adobe fonts, and that the licensing covers personal and commercial usage. This is very frustrating, however, and should be resolved through Adobe. I'll also reach out to Adobe and see I get any answers! 

            Æ
            æsthetic æon Lyńçh
            Participant
            August 25, 2023

            Im not sure in what way or to what degree these font providers are hassling you or your client, but it seems rather straight forward from.the language Adobe uses that these fonts are intended for use, personally and commercially by those who pay for the use of Adobes font kit.  Im sure I would make some digital and hard copy records of the permissions Adobe granted...although Id have a hard time  summoning the drive to do much else.     Theres always going to be someone trying to snag another sweetthang, or bubbas cornbread, they need a better font to encapsulate their banal attempts at redundant sales.

            B
            Community Expert
            Bobby HendersonCommunity Expert
            Community Expert
            August 25, 2023

            Stuff like this is one reason why I tend to convert the type in my sign designs to raw outlines when I'm finished with the design (and revisions).

             

            Still, I don't understand why the Type Founders is going after Adobe CC users (or their clients who happen to not be the ones creating the graphics work). Mark Simonson Studio (not "the type founders") has 29 different families available for CC subscribers to sync. That includes pretty much the entire Proxima Nova family. This has been the case since Typekit, aka Adobe Fonts became available to subscribers. Someone at the Type Founders must have not gotten that memo. I'm glad I bought a copy of Proxima Vara when it was first released; I don't have to worry about the Proxima Nova hassles. But the problem makes me a little nervous when continuing to sync Bookmania.

              Imaginerie
              Community Expert
              ImaginerieCommunity Expert
              Community Expert
              August 12, 2023

              I can't really chine in to try to solve your problem, but what strikes me is that the author of the Font (the designer) is Mark Simonson and he distributes the font through his own foundry
              https://www.marksimonson.com/
              The type Founders distributes Mark Simonson's fonts through their own platform (that happens a lot that someone decides to offer their typefaces through multiple channels), and it seems like he and the Type Founders foundry are one and the same entity (see the footer of his website)

               

               

              Regarding if Adobe has made a mistake on their terms, I guess only Adobe can answer that one

              Did you try to contact Mark Simonson directly?


              He may be able to offer some solution, as the people contacting you may acting without that particular knowledge.
              Sorry if I am just stating the obvious...

                D
                designb19019880Author
                Participant
                August 13, 2023

                Thanks so much for your reply. We have reached out to the font owner and have yet to recieve a response. 

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