FAQ: Multiple master fonts on OS X

Thomas,

One thing I've noticed is that Adobe's font management allows for aliases of fonts to be put into any of the Adobe font folders.

Indeed, you can put an alias of a folder of fonts in there and it works.

More! You can put an alias of a folder of aliases of folders of fonts in there and it works.

Apple's font management only works with the fonts themselves.

Score Adobe 10, Apple 1. Apple gets its one point because it defined a way of differentiating among fonts of the same name that unfortunately doesn't work with Adobe's font management.

Dave

Neil Keller and Thomas Phinney: Thank you both for your comments, for allowing me to blow off some steam on the matter of multiple master fonts and for filling me in on the ground rules of this forum.

Thomas, the solution of installing MM fonts in the Library>Applications Support>Adobe>Fonts folder works fine for all my Adobe apps and I am relieved to be able to use them again.

Now, could anyone offer advice on how to make MM fonts available in Quark Xpress 5.0 in Classic? Should I install my MM fonts in the Classic System Folder>Fonts folder? If so, do they need to be removed from the Library>Applications Support>Adobe>Fonts folder or can the two copies of MM fonts co-exist (since one set is available only to Adobe apps in OS X)?

Neil, thank you for hosting this forum. Is this the only place you know of to get on-going information about MM issues, or is there some "official" place on Adobe's Web site?

It seems like it might be best, long term, to convert all my MM fonts to standard post script using FontLab or Fontographer. This could be a very time-consuming project (depending on how many styles and instances I might choose to preserve), but it would allow the fonts to be handled (activated and deactiveated) by font management software and be available to all applications. Any comments on this concept would be welcome.

Happy Holidays to all.

Regards, Kirk

My mention of application-specific fonts folders applies equally well to the Adobe common fonts folder in question.

Now that Apple has fixed their end of the MM support problem on OS X, Adobe is well aware that our apps now have some difficulties in interacting with the system support. I can't comment on future Adobe or Apple release plans, but be assured that we do take this problem seriously.

While we are concerned about fixing problems for our installed base of users for now, it is also the case that we have been discontinuing sales of MM fonts as we come out with OpenType equivalents. We still support the multiple master format, but that support will not continue forever.

Regards,

T

Thomas Phinney
Program Mgr., Western Language Fonts
Adobe Systems

Kirk,

Although your frustration strikes some familiar chords all around, please understand that this is specifically a "user-to-user" forum, with the Q&A participation intended to take place primarily between the end-users of Adobe products. Although some of Adobe's staff will visit and participate in the discussions, it is generally on their own time.

Thomas has been generous in his time in these forums to clarify points and to enlighten us on a number of typographic issues, but it would be unfair to expect him to answer every question.

All that I can contribute is that Jaguar (OS X 10.2) is supposed to address some of the shortcomings of the Apple OS as it interfaces with PostScript multiple masters fonts.

Perhaps, if Thomas is available, he can more fully address your questions.

Neil
Forum Host

This inquiry is addressed to Thomas Phinney or any other font-savvy technician at Adobe. It relates to the very latest versions of the Mac OS (v.10.2.2) and Adobe Design applications (InDesign 2.0.1, Illustrator 10.0.3, Photoshop 7.0.1). It is about the use of Adobe's Multiple Master fonts. I was a big subscriber to the MM technology and have virtually all of the MM fonts Adobe issued. I have used them extensively in designs for the past four or five years. Now they have become problematic at best and Adobe has done precious little to keep MM fans informed regarding how to deal with the situation.

I have read every entry in this discussion thread and I still am unclear about where to install MM fonts and what the consequences might be. Furthermore, it took an hour of searching to find this thread. I am very disappointed in Adobe for not providing guidance on this issue in some very obvious, prominent place on their Web site.

As nearly as I can figure, the best place for MM fonts is in the Library>Application Support>Adobe>Fonts folder. Is this correct? And if it is, doesn't this mean that MM fonts will only be available to Adobe apps and therefore not be available to Xpress or Freehand or any other non-Adobe app?

And then I read that some MM instances still may not be available in Adobe apps and that "in some cases" this may be worked around by installing them in the applicaiton-specific fonts folder. Can they be installed in both locations at once? I don't think so. So do I now have to move MM fonts from folder to folder to insure performance? And what if I am working in all 3 Adobe apps at once (not at all uncommon)? What then?

Although this is the best advice I have been able to find so far and I thank you for it, it is still very "if-y." And very hard to come by. Adobe's behavior here is rather like the newspaper that makes a serious error on the front page and then prints an apology a week later on the bottom of an inside column on page 24 (or some other deep left-hand page), in 6 point type!!

The clear (although unstated) implication of this advice is that I should not expect font management programs (Suitcase, Font Reserve nor FontAgent Pro) to handle MM fonts. Is this correct? If it is, please state it clearly. This, of course means that MM fonts must always be active and will only appear in the font menus of Adobe applications (don't try to use them in Freehand or Xpress, let alone MS Word.) Does it not? And yet, most of my work is still done in Xpress, because most of my printers still aren't accepting InDesign files (most do not even have the app installed; hell, most are still running OS 9.)

Frankly, when I think of all the time and money that Adobe spent promoting the MM technology and all the money I (and many others) spent on MM fonts, I cannot help but feel betrayed by Adobe. Not for abandoning the technology (which I can accept as a matter settled in the marketplace), but for leaving high-and-dry we designers that bought into the technology and are now finding that not only does the new Mac OS have trouble with MM technology, but the Adobe design applicaitons for which it was intended also have trouble with it! What are we expected to do??? Will Adobe be issuing free postscript or OpenType versons of their MM fonts? No way! Or does Adobe expect us to convert all of our MM fonts to post script using a conversion utility (like TransType)? Yes, I rather suspect this is the route they would have us take.

Please do not reply to this inquiry (except to praise it, of course) unless you can speak for Adobe on the matter. Thank you.

Michael,

Don't know if I can be of much help here. You say:

>Since then, QX 3.32 which previously used the MM fonts just fine, now displays them fabulously onscreen, but prints out Courier.

I use QXP 4.1.1 and 5.0.1 and on two occasions I have experienced the same problem -- once with MM fonts; once with PS Type 1 -- running under MacOS 9.2.2, ATM Deluxe 4.6.2, and HP 4MV or 5000N printers with LaserWriter 8.7.x. As I recall, these two documents were opened in QXP 5.0.1 and they were revisions of revisions of older documents.

It may be that the basic document structure was somehow damaged as saving the file under another name did not fix the problem. But when I copied the content (graphics and text) of the document in a squeaky clean new document (copy all from old --> paste into new), everything worked again.

Beyond that, no clues other than to suggest that you replace the fonts with fresh copies made directly from the original foundry media -- in case of font corruption.

Neil

Hi,
I've looked through this thread and it gave me some ideas to try for my multiple masters. But my problem sounds a little different. I have two hard drives, one for OS 9.2.2 and the other for Jaguar. InDesign is intstalled on the OS X drive. My fonts are installed in the Application:Adobe Indesign:Fonts folder. The fonts appear in the menu of InDesign. But none of the arrows indicating the variations in weight appear. In OS 9 they work fine using the same installation of the application stored on the second drive. Any ideas anyone?

Thomas, Neil, anybody,

Read over a dozen threads,looked for a more-suitable thread, but this is the only active that even comes close...

Problem: can't print Multiple Master fonts anymore. Have several (AvantGarde, Myriad, Garamond) and used them to produce high-res imageset output that worked supremely well. That was all until two changes: MacOS 8.1 > 9.1, and ATM Deluxe 4.5.x > ATM Lite 4.6.2.

Since then, QX 3.32 which previously used the MM fonts just fine, now displays them fabulously onscreen, but prints out Courier. Illustrator has, on occasion, erratically unreliably intermittently printed the MM fonts (1. the native PS Type 1 font included in the MM suitcase) (2. when only MyriadMM is present in document, no printee-- error "typecheck" command "makeblendedfont" Stack: " "). (3. When MyriadMM appears with OTHER MM fonts in same document, POW, all print fine, and I can create outlines in Ill. just fine. Even if I add a SINGLE character from another MM font, then it will print OK. But MyriadMM alone, no.) Other apps also choke on printing the MM fonts. Yet...
FontCreator utility 3.1 DOES print out a specimen sheet of MM fonts, even newly-created instances, properly!
FontShow utility prints sample settings properly!
ATM prints out a sample sheet, properly!

What I'm on (yeah, I know it's old):
G3 MacOS 9.1
ATM 4.6.2 plenty of RAM assigned
QX 3.32r5
Illus 8.1
HP LaserJet 4MV 32MB RAM true Adobe PS Level 2
MasterJuggler font mgmnt, latest version

Probs with ALL MM fonts, but most persistent w/MyriadMM
Fonts in MJ folder, subfolders by style (Sans, Display, etc.) activated by Sets, or individually
Yes, other fonts, both TT and PS1 are there and working
All MM font components are present in same directory
No duplicates of fonts present (searched)

Fresh install done with MyriadMM from original font disks (note: creation date of MyriadMM is Jan. 28, 1992).

Also, type utilities and other utilities (including MJ and Conflict Catcher) used to test fonts for corruption (none found, in these fonts-- any bad fonts removed)
Conflict Catcher run, no conflict identified.

Attempts to fix this included Norton SystemWorks NUM 6; DiskWarrior; zap PRAM; rebuild desktop...
QX tried: hurled prefs; replacing and removing Xtension MMU (Multiple Master Utilities) which for a short time added a second "FontCreator" to Utilities Menu;
Intermingling TT, PS1 and MM fonts in a single line of type resulted in PS1 and TT printing OK but every instance of MM printed in Courier (save for the native PS1 weight of the MM font, which printed fine)
Instances of MM fonts delivered with the font, no print.
Newly-created instances of MM fonts, whether created while in QX, Ill., or from the FontCreator utility, no print.
QX Xtension for creating drop shadows does an odd thing of note: since the screen view of MM fonts is OK, the shadows it creates are perfect... but when printed, the overlying MM type goes Courier, very funky-looking.

arrrgh! help please?! Would like to preserve my investment in MM. Thanks for any assistance,

Michael

David,

Sounds like you may have to delete and reinstall the font from the original foundry media. I don't yet use OS X, but there are specific locations to properly install your fonts so they are recognized under OS X. Check your system literature for installation info, or elsewhere in these forums.

Neil

I am a real novice at this. I have a new iMac with OS 10.1.4, having graduated up from a 5-year old PowerMac 7600 running OS 8.1. I made up all my business cards and business stationery using the Bellevue Font, which came with an Adobe Value Pack and ATM disk. It worked perfectly on my old Mac. Now the iMac can't seem to read it. The font is distorted and unusable.

Any ideas for what to do? I really don't want to buy a $100 font package to get Bellevue when I paid for it once already.
Thanks.
David