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Thomas Phinney
Inspiring
May 21, 2004
Question

TrueType, PostScript & OpenType: What's the difference?

  • May 21, 2004
  • 30 replies
  • 10340 views
Attached is the latest version of my article on font formats, for your reference.

Cheers,

T
      This topic has been closed for replies.

      30 replies

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      Neil_Keller
      Known Participant
      July 24, 2004
      If our neck of the woods (New York metro area) weren't so entrenched in QXP, I'd migrate over to ID, without a doubt.

      Anyway, Thomas and I have already discussed this Quark issue and....well....

      Next up: using the full potential of OpenType fonts in QuarkXPress. Yeah. Right....

      Neil
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      Neil_Keller
      Known Participant
      July 23, 2004
      Dov,

      The only "problem" I've personally encountered over the years with Multiple Master fonts is within QuarkXPress. This is under Mac OS 8.x through 9.2.2; QuarkXPress v4.x-5.x. I don't know about other platforms, OS or XPress versions. The only fonts involved are any Multiple Master font. Single Master Type 1 and TrueType fonts within the same document are unaffected.

      After working on a document using MM fonts over time, when I would print (to PostScript Level 2 HP models 4MV, 5000N and 4050 from different Macs in different locations, these fonts would default to Courier. The 4MV is genuine PostScript.

      The fonts would still look fine, set and edit properly on screen. They would convert to PDFs and print from those without a hitch. But the only way to get them to print properly in the native XPress document would be to copy all page elements, create a new blank XPress document, and paste the copied content into it, page by page.

      So -- regardless of Quark's insistence that it's a background printing issue -- my work-around seems to indicate that somehow the basic XPress document structure becomes permanently corrupted over time. And, of course, the problem persists whether or not background printing is selected.

      Neil
      Dov Isaacs
      Dov Isaacs
      Legend
      July 23, 2004
      Ahh! For better or worse (probably better), I have not had the pleasure of that much use of QuarkXPress ... (8^)>

      - Dov
      - Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)
      N
      Neil_Keller
      Known Participant
      July 23, 2004
      Thomas,

      And it's not just TrueType, it's multiple master PostScript fonts that some printers don't want to accept. Maybe four years ago, I did a full-page color ad for a client, which was approved and submitted to the publication. I spec'd the ad in an Adobe multiple master type family (maybe Myriad). I got a panic call from the client saying that the publication refused the file because it required these fonts, and no extension could be granted to redo the ad. I never saw the mechanical requirements and no one mentioned this little deal breaker in my conversations with the client or publicaton.

      I called the pub and argued the case. No go. I worked late swapping out fonts, getting the line breaks right, getting client approval, and then delivering the ad.

      Neil
      Dov Isaacs
      Dov Isaacs
      Legend
      July 23, 2004
      Over the years, we have heard similar stories of printers not accepting content with Multiple Master fonts. This was supposedly due to "problems" in handling such jobs.

      At Adobe, we attempted to follow-up on reports of such problems. Not once were we ever able to track any such "problem" to either the RIP with Adobe PostScript or to any Adobe Multiple Master font itself. Generally speaking, in the non-PDF workflow case, what we did typically find as the biggest problem was that users would deliver "the job" with "all the fonts" but without the specific and in many cases custom Multiple Master instance definitions used for the job. In other words, the problem was not one of technology, but of incomplete user "packaging" of all the jobs' assets. In some other non-PDF workflow cases, what we found were problems with print service providers using defective, third-party "added value" PostScript preprocessing programs that simply couldn't deal with Multiple Master fonts at all.

      In terms of PDF workflows, we have never been aware of any problems with Adobe products rendering or RIPing PDF files that used Multiple Master fonts with all fonts embedded. On the other hand, we are aware of printers and prepress service providers being scared off of Multiple Master fonts simply by virtue of pre-flight software warnings against their use.

      - Dov
      - Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)
      T
      Thomas PhinneyAuthor
      Inspiring
      July 22, 2004
      Brad:

      Sounds like your biggest problem is your printer. They believe in urban myths, and obviously aren't actually testing any new workflows in the last many years. As Dov says, the mixing TT and PS is a myth.

      I'll add that there are very very few workflows where using TrueType is inherently a problem. The fact that they don't officially support it means that they either have a workflow that ignores end-user needs, or more likely it's just another superstition unrelated to reality. Either way, if it were me, I'd suggest to them that they need to get up to speed on the technology of 4-10 years ago (else I'd be finding a new printer).

      Of course, this is easy for me to say, since I don't know how good a relationship you have with them, or how wonderful they are in other ways, or how much cheaper they are than their competitors. Or maybe you have to use them because they're chosen by your client or your company or something.

      Cheers,

      T
      _
      _Dominic_Hurley_
      Participating Frequently
      July 22, 2004
      Ah. That makes things clearer. Thanks Dov.
      N
      Neil_Keller
      Known Participant
      July 21, 2004
      Dominic,

      I see. If Windows naming conventions commonly uses such variations for identifying fonts, there wouldn't be a problem, of course. But, yes, on the Mac, there are some exact name matches between PostScript and TrueType fonts, and for the reason I suggested, Mac users are often faced with this issue. I could certainly use multiple Times fonts simultaneously on my Mac as long they are not named identically. Or if identically named, if they are not simultaneously activated. Otherwise, my Mac could go down like a rock.

      Neil
      _
      _Dominic_Hurley_
      Participating Frequently
      July 21, 2004
      No, I'm talking about my experience in using TrueType and Type 1 versions of ostensibly the same font (eg, Times New Roman). On Windows, I can't remember the last time I had a clash because the fonts always seem to have subtly different names - Times New Roman PS (T1) and Times New Roman (TT); Arial MT (T1) and Arial (TT) - and a subtle difference is as good as a huge difference. But Ramon and Brad indicate that in Mac fonts, exact same names are common.
      N
      Neil_Keller
      Known Participant
      July 21, 2004
      Dominic,

      It could be that Mac users tend to buy and install PostScript and simply inherit the conflicting TrueType fonts with their system or software installs. And Windows folk have pretty much stuck with TrueType???

      Neil
      _
      _Dominic_Hurley_
      Participating Frequently
      July 20, 2004
      Interesting. In this case, I wonder why Mac TT and T1 fonts share the same name so often when it's not, to my knowledge, common in Windows fonts (talking quality fonts here, of course).
      Dov Isaacs
      Dov Isaacs
      Legend
      July 21, 2004
      Apple purposely duplicated the names for the "base" fonts in PostScript printers for their host-based TrueType fonts without any consideration for the ramifications going forward and even after warnings of the damage they cause. When Microsoft produced their set of "set width compatible" fonts emulating fonts in PostScript printers, they used "knockoffs" with different names, thus avoiding problem that the Macintosh, out-of-the-box, has.

      - Dov
      - Dov Isaacs, former Adobe Principal Scientist (April 30, 1990 - May 30, 2021)
      Ramón G Castañeda
      Ramón G Castañeda
      Inspiring
      July 20, 2004
      Dominic,
      >I've had the opposite experience.

      If you were on the Mac platform, however :)

      Fonts with duplicative names will even bring your machine down.
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