Quotes and Apostrophes Automatically Convert to Question Marks in Frame 9.0

Report · Jun 03, 2009

I'm using Framemaker 9.0 without any patches installed (per the Adobe Support reps who advised me when I called that the issues the early patches were supposed to resolve were not actually resolved at all, and that the patches may actually be exacerbating my problems).

This problem is specific to Framemaker 9.0. We haven't experienced it with previous versions.

Randomly at times when we open a new document or work with an existing template (it doesn't matter which), keystrokes that would ordinarily result in an apostrophe or double quotes result instead in a quotation mark.

Has anyone else experienced this problem? Suggestions on how to fix it? We've tried rebooting and uninstalling/reinstalling Framemaker without luck.

Thanks,

JMW

Report · Jun 03, 2009

Without seeing samples or knowing what your operating environment is, I'd guess that it's a font or unicode chracter problem.

Is the Adobe PDF printer instance set as your default system printer?

Are the existing files that you're opening pre version 8?

***

It would be really helpful to know all the system and file details you can provide. OS, code set, previous version of FM, etc.

***

And as far as the patch releases.... I would suspect the phone guys may be altering their conciousness a bit too much. Both patches are stable and each resolves multiple issues, not just one. So I'd roll them on. I haven't noticed any ill effects. And so far as I know, you can always uninstall them.

Report · Jun 03, 2009

Art,

Thanks for the reply. I considered attaching a sample file, but I don't think that's relevant as the problem seems to be specific to a particular machine. For example, when my coworker and I both access the same file on a network drive, I have no trouble inputting apostrophes and quotation marks, but she does. I can discern no actual pattern, although both I and two other coworkers have at separate times experienced the problem. I and one coworker tempeorarily solved this by reinstalling Framemaker after all other efforts (and several hours on the phone with Adobe Tech Support, who were equally perplexed) failed. However, that hasn't helped in this most recent case.

We are all running Windows XP Professional with SP3.

We are not running any Framemaker patches.

We are running the Windows Hotfix KB952909-v2 (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/952909/en-us)

In the case of my coworker, the Adobe PDF printer is not set as her default printer (she usually selects it manually when printing to PDF).

Report · Jun 03, 2009

I think you're telling us what the problem is: she doesn't have the Adobe PDF printer set as the system default.

I'm guessing she has a hard physical printer set and it's using a character set that isn't the same as what's in the document.

If she won't set the system up properly, at least get her to load the SetPrint plug in: http://www.sundorne.com/FrameMaker/Freeware/setPrint.htm

I think there's a small chance that the problem is something else, but given this info, the only other thing I'd suspect would be her code set or keyboard actually sending a bad code. Which I think is really, really, unlikely.

Report · Jun 03, 2009

Art,

I tried both solutions you recommend here.

First, I opened Framemaker and manually selected Adobe PDF printer from the list of printers, opened the document in which she was having problems, and the same error persisted.

Next, I tried installing the SetPrint dll with an *.ini file, and although it seemed to automatically set her default printer to Adobe PDF as designed, it did not solve the problem of Framemaker replacing quotes/apostrophes with question marks.

Any other ideas?

Thanks again for your help.

Report · Jun 03, 2009

I was really hoping that was it. I'd at least keep that in place to establish a solid baseline.

Is there any chance that the actual font files being invoked differ between systems?

Art

Report · Jun 03, 2009

Art,

I'd say there's maybe a small (<5%) variation among our fontsets. As far as I can tell, however, the bug occurs irrespective of which font we choose. I tested at least a dozen fonts of varying types and the phenonenon affected them all.

Report · Jun 03, 2009

Check that the maker.ini files are the same for the following entries:

[Preferences] section

RomanRanges=0000-024F, 0400-052F, 0370-03FF, 2000-206F

[Spelling] section

; English curved quotes:
SmartQuotes=‘’“”

Report · Jun 03, 2009

Arnis,

I've verified that her maker.ini settings appear precisely as you note.

Thanks,

Report · Jun 03, 2009

Have you checked if the system level "Text Services and Input Languages" settings are the same? Are the advanced text services settings the same on all machines also?

I vaguely remember some minor issues in the pre-release program with typing some characters, but these seemed to have cleared up along the way. As Art says, the patches do fix more issues than they introduce...

Report · Jun 03, 2009

Arnis,

Text Services and Input Languages are the same for all machines. Advanced Text Services are activated for all machines.

In addition, I went ahead and patched her machine with the 9.0.1 and 9.0.2 patches, and the problem persists.

Report · Jun 03, 2009

Let's back up a bit. Exactly what keystrokes are being used for which characters and what are the Smart Quotes settings?

Report · Jun 03, 2009

Let's back up a bit. Exactly what keystrokes are being used for which characters and what are the Smart Quotes settings?

Arnis,

Smart Quotes are activated in Text Options.

We are attempting to input an apostrophe using the apostrophe key (adjacent to the Enter key on a standard keyboard) and double quotes (apostrophe key + shift).

Report · Jun 03, 2009

With Smart Quotes active, then you *should* be getting curly quotation marks and quotes with those keystrokes. You either need to turn off the Smart Quotes when entering these or use the following keystroke shortcuts when Smart Quotes are on:

single quote/apostrophe = Ctrl '

double quote = Esc ".

Report · Jun 04, 2009

Arnis,

I tried keying with Smart Quotes both off and on (this was something I went through with Adobe Tech Support when I experienced the same problem). I've just retried the various combinations using my coworker's computer, and the results are as follows:

Smart quotes ON

1. Ctrl+’ = straight apostrophe

2. Esc+” = question mark

Smart quotes OFF

1. ‘ key = curled apostrophe!

2. Shift+’ = straight quotes

3. Ctrl+’ = straight apostrophe

4. Esc+” = straight quotes for the first instance (after I hit Enter the first time but while still holding the Esc, shift, and ‘ keys down) and question mark every time thereafter until I rekey the sequence entirely.

I have absolutely no idea what to make of these.

Report · Jun 04, 2009

Another note regarding fonts. Apostrophes and double-quotes appear normally in every other application on this system. Framemaker is the only one having trouble.

Report · Jun 04, 2009

I'm still thinking it's something related to the fonts on your co-worker's system, because your system doesn't exhibit the symptoms. So I'm thinking it's something unusual or corrupt on that one box.

If you still have some energy left, I'd try isolating fonts as Shelia suggested yesterday, or taking a shotgun approach: backing up her font directories and installing the "known good" set from yours (assuming it's legal, etc., etc.) to see if that makes a difference.

One other thing you may look at would be to create a file on the problem system, hit the keys, and then save the file out as MIF.

Do the same thing on your stable system. Then compare the content of the files in an ASCII or binary editor to see what exactly is being written.

Art

Report · Jun 04, 2009

Art,

We've experienced this same problem on three different boxes (mine and two coworkers) at different times. For my and one of my coworker's machines, we solved the problem with an uninstall/reinstall of Framemaker 9, but that doesn't seem to have worked for my other coworker (a fact that makes me wonder if the uninstall/reinstall was part of the solution to begin with).

Point being, this problem is not limited to one box, but has happened only once for the three machines it has affected and appears to happen randomly if seldom (i.e., I haven't been able to discern any pattern based on our builds, fonts, activities, etc.).

We really don't have a "known good" set of fonts, but neither do we have a known bad set of fonts, as we've never actually correlated our fonts to any problems we've experienced or tested them for errors. In most cases (99%), our fonts work flawlessly in all applications, including Framemaker.

I don't have any experience with binary editors... though I'm willing to try your last suggestion. Can you recommend a reliable/intuitive/free one I can download?

Thanks,

Report · Jun 04, 2009

To look at Binary, I use ClipMate, a clipboard tool that I've discovred I can't really live without any more.

Free to try; shareware.

It does a host of things like keeping track of everything you cut and paste in a sessions, but to see what's in a file (or something you cut and paste to the clipboard, which makes this particular task easier) just toggle Binary mode on and it'll show you what's inside the snippet.

One other obvious thing to try, but which no one's mentioned yet: get a non-Dell keyboard from somewhere and swap out the keyboard on one of the problematic machines and reboot ti. Just to see if it makes any kind of difference.

Report · Jun 04, 2009

I installed ClipMate and copied the double quotes created in one version of the file from my machine and the quotation marks substituted for double quotes created in another version of the file on my coworker's computer. I can't figure out how to export the binary dump to a text file so i can compare the information completely, but the from what I can tell from the first sixty lines or so, they are identical.

What that means, I have no idea.

Report · Jun 04, 2009

To see the entire Binary dump, just highlight it in ClipMate and press F2 (or right click and View).

If it's identical, and the Hex plug in also shows the files to be identical, that's what all the correspondents have been looking to hear though... it means that the file contains the correct codes, but the mapping between the file and what you're seeing differs.

***

To follow on, this happens on hard copy and printed output too, correct? It's not just an on-screen FM thing?

Art

Report · Jun 04, 2009

Art,

What I meant was that the binary tab output is hundreds of lines long for each the copied quote and the copied questionmark, and I have no idea how to compare them character for character to see if they are identical.

I can view them both in binary view and toggle back and forth quickly enough to see that they are identical for the first sixty lines or so.

The hex codes for the two are the same on my machine and my coworker's machine, and a print out of the two side-by-side displays a questionmark and a double quote.

Report · Jun 04, 2009

Hi,

itl offers a free FrameScript script to check the character code.

http://www.i-frame.itl.info/convertcharcode.html

They explain that on FM 9 you can use this command:

File | Utilities > Hex

Although you said that you use a default keyboard etc. I would

really check _all_ characters. Just press any character upper/

lower case/Alt Gr.

Best regards

Winfried

Report · Jun 04, 2009

I used the Hex utility in Frame 9 to verify character codes for the apostrophe and double quote in the same file on both machines. I didn't see any discrepancy between the two.

Report · Jun 04, 2009

In a test file, when entering the " (doublequotes) and you get the question mark instead, have you saved the file and opened it up on another machine that enters this properly? Does it then show as the question mark or the doublequote on that machine?

If it shows as the proper doublequotes, then there is something definitely different on the one machine - perhaps start checking and comparing the video driver versions.

If it still shows as question mark, then enter the doublequotes near it and save the file as MIF. Using a text editor (NotePad will do) or the Mifbrowse utility ( get it at http://www.wideman-one.com/gw/tech/framemaker/mifbrowse.htm ), in the MIF file check to see what hex-character or unicode characters are being reported for the question mark vs. the double quotes.