Helvetica font different logo

[Shameem98A4]

Hello I would really appreciate your help.

I am trying to edit a PDF. The original font appears to be Helvetica type 1 true type with a "A"

red logo.

When I edit in Adobe the font of the new text appears as Helvetica true type but with a blue "T" logo.

please see attached pictures 

please could you tell me the difference in these two fonts and how I can edit such that the new text in Helvetica appears in the red logo?

Thank you so much. Grateful for any help.

[Karl Heinz Kremer · Accepted solution]

You are looking at a PostScript Type 1 vs. TrueType fonts. Both are font formats that Acrobat can work with. Type 1 is a relatively old format, and chances are that no new fonts are produced in this format. Support for Type 1 fonts will end in Adobe applications over the next few years. TrueType is the more modern format. So, depending on what fornts were installed when your document was generated, it may have used the Type 1 fonts, but on your computer, you have the TrueType version of Helvetica, so it is using that for anything that you change. 

[Karl Heinz Kremer · Accepted solution]

You are looking at a PostScript Type 1 vs. TrueType fonts. Both are font formats that Acrobat can work with. Type 1 is a relatively old format, and chances are that no new fonts are produced in this format. Support for Type 1 fonts will end in Adobe applications over the next few years. TrueType is the more modern format. So, depending on what fornts were installed when your document was generated, it may have used the Type 1 fonts, but on your computer, you have the TrueType version of Helvetica, so it is using that for anything that you change. 

[Shameem98A4]

Thank you Karl for taking the time to write and explain all of it in details. It's super helpful.Truly appreciated. Thank you once again.

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse · Accepted solution]

The letterforms and letterspacing are for all intents and purposes identical, so doing an edit now in the TT Helevtica version will be just fine.

HOWEVER...

Ironically, your PDF didn't have Helvetica embedded in it anyway. The original file may have used it, but when the PDF was made the Helvetica wasn't embedded (a common thing back when for reasons I won't get into). Since you don't have Helvetica Type 1 on your system, Acrobat is substituting Arial for viewing, which is a normal Acrobat substitution for Helvetica (also a common thing, particularly from Mac to PC).

So, no, you can't edit using Type 1 Helevtica because it doesn't exist in your PDF, nor on your system, so the TT version is the only game for you.

Ironically, now you will have a mix, because now you will be viewing Arial for the missing Type 1 Helvetica, but seeing the proper Helevtica in your new edits. (Not sure why your Acrobat isn't doing a sub with the TT Helvetica instead of the Arial as I know that's what happens on my Mac, so this could be a PC issue).

If this is a document you are having printed professionally, it may be a non-issue as any Postscript-based printer or RIP has Helvetica installed by default and will use it as called for in the PDF, so your edits will match the original text. A non-PS printer may subsitute Arial, depending on the system.

[Shameem98A4]

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation.

You are right the PDF on windows is viewed on Arial on windows and Helvetica TT on mac. Mysterious fonts solved! Thank you so much!

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

Oh! If you are working on this on a Mac, then this may work to your advantage. (I was actually wondering how you were editing using TT Helvetica on a Windows machine as that font is very rare on that platform)

So, yes, on a Mac, the TT Helvetica should be substituting for the Type 1 (when you look at Document Properties >  Fonts, the Type 1 Helevtica should be followed by "Actaul Font : Helevtica : TrueType" (instead of Arial). Correct?

If so, it would be worth your while to embed the fonts for the whole document for consistency. There is an "embed fonts" PDF Fixup in the Preflight panel that will allow you to do this.

 

[Shameem98A4]

Thank you once again for the detailed explanation and picture. You are right I was on windows but I changed to Mac after your post to check. And you are correct on Mac the TT Helvetica is substituting for the type 1 instead of Arial. It's super helpful to know. Thank you so much! 

[Karl Heinz Kremer]

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Brad Roaring Mouse wrote:

So, no, you can't edit using Type 1 Helevtica because it doesn't exist in your PDF, nor on your system, so the TT version is the only game for you.

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Just to prevent any misunderstandings: Having the font embedded in the PDF file will not allow you to edit the portion of text that's using that font (it does not make a difference if the font is fully embedded or subset embedded). You need to have the font installed on your local system to be able to edit. This is due to licensing restrictions of most fonts. 

[Shameem98A4]

Thank you Karl for the clarification. You are right embedding on PDF does not allow me to edit part of the orginal text. In this instance it's still ok to work around this but helpful to know. Thank you once for sharing your knowledge on this. Very grateful.

[Brad @ Roaring Mouse]

To clarify my reasons for recommending that they force embed the font is not about editing but so that future users will have a consistent experience, e.g. viewers aren't seeing a mix of helvetica and arial (or worse, Adobe Sans MM).

[Shameem98A4]

Noted! Totally understand your point. Thank you for explaining and sharing for all of us.