Linking to within a PDF using named destinations

[_Gloria_Mc_]

This topic is moved from the Feature Request forum. Leslie and Errol wrote:
We're talking about make a large manual that consists of many PDF files arranged in a hierarchy. It begins with an HTML file where the user chooses a topic that takes them to a PDF file that serves as a table of contents. The user then chooses a specific topic. Here's the issue. The specific topic is NOT always the first page of the corresponding PDF. Named destinations are set correctly. If you open the TOC PDF in Adobe (and not the IE plugin of Adobe) the links work correctly to the appropriate destinations. If however, you follow the links from the original HTML file, it uses the Adobe plugin inside IE. The links to the destinations DO NOT work in this case - it only takes you to the first page of the PDF on the topic, NOT the specific destination within the document.

The problem is described here:

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/knowledgebase/index.cfm?id=326332

We're looking for a workaround. The new version of Adobe Reader 8 does the same thing. We can't use another browser because the manual is set for mass distribution in a corporate environment and changing the destinations to page number works, but it's endless amounts of data entry.

Any ideas??? We were thinking maybe using an eBook reader that opens PDFs instead of IE?

Your help would be much appreciated.
Leslie and Errol.

[_Gloria_Mc_]

Leslie and Errol,
My testing is showing that named destinations are working with the following software: Adobe Reader 8.1, Internet Explorer 6.0 SP2, Windows XP Professional (2002 SP2). Other testing observations:

1. The HTML file and the PDF file must be on a Web server; the link is using a URL, not a file system location. (Well, not true - the HTML file can be on local computer, not the Web server, but that doesn't really make sense. But PDF must be on Web server.)

2. My links are in the form: http://servername/serverpath/mypdf.pdf#MyDestination

3. Acrobat Professional cannot be on the system along with Reader. In my case, our users will have only Reader, so it's fine. (Just means I cannot test on my own work system - have to use a lab computer with only Adobe Reader on it. This also means I have not tested a system with only Acrobat Professional.)

4. The Adobe Reader option to display PDF in Web browser must be set. This option is in Edit > Preferences > Internet. This is the key setting, but I suppose other settings might play a role. I can let you know what they all are if it gets to that.

5. The PDF file was created from a Word 2007 .doc file (not .docx), using PDFMaker (provided by Acrobat Professional 8.1). The compatibility level was set to Acrobat 8.0 (PDF 1.7). I can't imagine why FrameMaker or any other app. that allows you to create PDFs wouldn't work.

6. For my initial testing, the destinations were defined in Acrobat Professional (not via a PRINT field in Word. Still have to test that.)

7. Destination names are case sensitive. So if you define "MyLink" in the PDF file, but create a link in the HTML file to "mylink," Adobe Reader will not recognize it and the destination parameter will be ignored (file will open to first page).

Whew! Hope this list gives you something to go on. Let me know if further questions.

--Gloria Mc

[_Gloria_Mc_]

I was looking at the Adobe Parameters for Opening PDF Files again, and see the following URL limitations, which may apply to what you are doing.

URL limitations

• Only one digit following a decimal point is retained for float values.
  
• Individual parameters, together with their values (separated by & or #), can be no greater then 32 characters in length.
  
• You cannot use the reserved characters =, #, and &. There is no way to escape these special characters.
  
• If you turn bookmarks off using a URL parameter when a document had previously been saved with bookmarks on, the bookmark scrollbars are displayed at first, and only disappear once Acrobat obtains enough streamed information to render the full page.

[_Gloria_Mc_]

More info in case anyone out there is following this post. First, if you...
1. Click a link to a named destination in PDF file.
2. Scroll in the file, then close on a page other than the named. dest. page.
3. Very quickly click the link again.

...the link may go to your last location, not the named dest. If you wait just a few sec., though, the link will work again. I'm thinking our users won't be clicking a link that quickly. Also, that there is some cache clean-out going on that takes just a little bit of time.

Second, see Parameters for Opening PDF Files for details on different ways to specify the file to open, either programmatically or with a URL.

[_Gloria_Mc_]

Don't know if anyone is following this post, but here is a bit more info. Apparently PDF files no longer have to be on a Web server, at least for Acrobat (or Reader) 8.1 and IE 7. Not sure about IE 6.

Tests by a co-worker indicate that a hyperlink in an HTML file, to a PDF on the reg. file system, will work - both for link to a named destination and to a page no. For example: href="mypdffile.pdf#page=265 or href="mypdffolder\mypdffile.pdf#mydest (that is, with the complete HTML code for a link).

[_Jeanie_Shoemaker_]

Gloria,

Thanks for all the information you've posted. I've used links to destinations in PDF files produced from FrameMaker frequently with no problem. I've also created PDF files from Word that contain links to destinations in another PDF file.

I remember that the various versions of Word require different methods to create the link to a destination. That was a problem for me because I was collaborating with someone using a different version of Word--links would work for me or links would work for her, but not both.

Now I'm trying to use Word XP to create a link to a destination and I see no way to do that. The Hypertext dialog lets me link to a bookmark, but it has no way of parsing PDF files to let me link to a destination there. I think I used to (in a previous version of Word) be able to type in "#destination" at the end of the link, but I can't be sure. Any ideas on how to do this in Word XP?

Thanks.

Jeanie

[_Gloria_Mc_]

Jeanie,
In what type of file do you want the link to work? In the Word files? That doesn't seem to work unless the PDF file is on a Web server. However, links to PDFs in the file system(relative or absolute path) seem to be working with Acrobat 8 files if the link is in an HTML file (created from Word). In both cases, the URL is appended with #DestinationName. I don't think this works with a non-Web-based PDF (PDF #1 links to a destination in PDF #2) created from the Word file. In fact I just did a quick test and the hyperlinks to the destinations seem to disappear when clicked!

Hope this helps.
--GMc

[_Jeanie_Shoemaker_]

Gloria,

I want to create links in Word files, convert Word to PDF, and then put the PDF on our web server. The links will go from the Word/PDF file to another PDF file (also on the web server) that contains a named destination.

My question is more about how to create the links in Word XP. The dialog doesn't seem to offer a way for me to add the "#destination" part of the link. I tried typing that in as part of the path for the link, but when I look at the link properties in Acrobat8, the named destination is not part of the link. Even before I put the file out on our web server, I can see that the link won't go to the destination.

Thanks.

Jeanie

[_Gloria_Mc_]

Jeanie,
With Word 2007 and Acrobat 8.1.1, the URL (with #Destination included) is correctly processed from Word into a PDF file. The subsequent link (to a URL such as http://myserver/myfile.pdf#mydestination) works correctly. This is true for a .doc file and for a .docx file.

The URL is entered into Word's Insert > Hyperlink dialog box Address field either by typing or pasting the base address, then manually adding the #Destination part. (You are right, there is no way to see/access the destinations from within the Word Insert Hyperlink dialog box. Word doesn't know anything about the destinations.)

The PDF is created in Word 2007 by Saving as Adobe PDF. The PDF option to "Add Links to Adobe PDF" option is selected.

If you don't have Word 2007 and Acrobat 8.1.1, you may have to upgrade - that's all I can think of.

--Gloria Mc

[_Jennifer_Kaye_]

Hello group,
I'm having a similar problem Gloria described with named destinations that seem to get stuck at the first. In my case, however, it doesn't seem to matter whether I wait a few seconds or a few minutes.

I have a large PDF handbook being placed onto a website with a navigation frame on the left. The navigation frame links to named destinations in the PDF. The first link that is clicked works like a charm. Clicking for a different destination doesn't do anything at all - not even reload. If I click out of the PDF and then back in, perfect the first time, and then zilch again for any subsequent clicks.

Has someone else encountered this and/or found a solution?

Much thanks!
- Jennifer

[_jefforthober_]

Hi All:

I have a similar issue in that I am using Adobe Acrobat to generate a manual in PDF from word. All works great, including bookmarks. Except that destinations are not automatically generated. Destinations are needed because an automatic system would be nice to bring the reader to a certain point in the document from a program. The only way I can see to do this is using the Adobe SDK and the only way to go to a certain point in a document is to use destinations.... Why can't one goto a bookmark automatically and / or convert all bookmarks to destinations easily? Having to manually input destinations in Word is a real issue.

[_Aandi_Inston_]

I believe third party plug-ins exist to do this, but I can't recall
the names.

Aandi Inston

[_Gloria_Mc_]

Jennifer,
I tried a test of one file with three bookmarks redefined to go to named destinations, and they all worked correctly on the Web. This is in a PDF 1.7 (Acrobat 8.x) file. Which version of Acrobat/Adobe do you have and what PDF version was the file created as? Remember that Acrobat 7 doesn't work, and the Adobe Reader Internet setting must be set to "Display PDF in browser." If these aren't the problems, then could it be a browser setting? Maybe someone else can help.

Jeff,
You are correct about the problem with manually entering destinations in a Word file. As Aandi said, there is at least one company that purports to help. The one I found is Evermaps AutoBookmark. This plug-in allows you to edit and manage bookmarks, links, and named destinations. The literature says that with it, you can automatically generate named destinations from bookmarks. I have not tested this product. It's fairly inexpensive (something around $150). Let me know if you try it and it works.

--GMc

[_Jennifer_Kaye_]

Hi Gloria,
Thanks for your feedback. I have a sample of what I'm talking about that I've just posted. I currently have Acrobat 6.0 Professional for the PDF creation (resulting in PDF 1.5), and the version of the Reader plug-in I use doesn't seem to make a difference (though I have updated to 8.0 just to be safe!). I've used named destinations instead of page numbers because the documentation I've seen online indicates that destinations are better supported across versions and browsers.

http://www.childaction.org/prototypes/test.html

If I choose any chapter in the menu frame to start out with, the destination works. If I then choose another chapter, nothing happens. To make something happen, I have to back up to the start page and then choose another link. Each destination works by itself, but not one after another. IE and Firefox both have this same behavior.

If I can confirm FOR SURE that upgrading to 8.0 Pro for creating the PDF will fix it, I'm sure I can get management to approve a license for me. Can you confirm this is the functionality I'm missing?

Thanks again!
Jennifer

[_Gloria_Mc_]

Jennifer,
I see you are not using the PDF's native bookmark pane, but rather you are using a Web page with hyperlinks that include target frame of "body." I can only guess that the browser is not happy with this arrangement/HTML command and thus the links don't work. I am not an HTML person; maybe someone else can help.

Why don't you just define the PDF to include bookmarks and use Adobe's native bookmark pane? That is what I tested. In that case, your URL would be to the PDF file, not an HTML file. E.g., http://www.childaction.org/prototypes/YourFile.pdf. You can include an open parameter in that URL to force the bookmarks panel to open -
http://www.childaction.org/prototypes/YourFile.pdf#pagemode=bookmarks.

If you must use the HTML page, then hopefully someone w/knowledge in that area will speak up.

--GMc

[_David_Fass_]

I just want to add a note to this discussion: I had a problem linking from HTML to a named destination in PDF. I was using the following general syntax:

http://localhost:8080/folder/book.pdf#nameddest=M5.8.newlink.somename

where "M5.8.newlink.somename" is the text of the named destination. These names are generated by FrameMaker PDF export, hence the "Mn.8.newlink" prefix.

The above syntax was recommended by several sources I found on the web, and it works in Firefox but not in IE. (IE simply goes to the last page of the document. Not good.) However, the following syntax DOES work in both Firefox and IE:

http://localhost:8080/folder/book.pdf#M5.8.newlink.somename

In other words, leave off the "nameddest" property, and just place the destination name immediately after the # sign. I believe this is what Adobe's official propaganda actually advises, but there is so much contrary information out there, I thought adding this note might help someone out.

[_Gloria_Mc_]

Thx David. The parameter "nameddest" is supposed to work, although Adobe itself omits it from their URL examples in the "Parameters for Opening PDF Files" document. Personally, I've never used it.

One problem may be that when you include it you exceed the character limit specified by Adobe. "Individual parameters, together with their values (separated by & or #), can be no greater then 32 characters in length." Your example, "nameddest=M5.8.newlink.somename" is itself precariously close to that limit.

But it is never needed, so the best bet as you suggest, is to omit it.

-GMc

[_Donald_C__McKinnie_]

I want to link to a specific bookmark or named destination within a PDF on the web from another word file on the web. Is there a way to do this? Also, How can I determine the name s of the bookmarks or named destinations that are contained within a PDF?

Donald

[_David_Fass_]

Hi Donald. I don't know anything about Word in particular, but I would guess the method is just what I wrote above. With regard to viewing named destinations in a PDF, you will need Acrobat Standard or Professional. There is a menu option somewhere that will display the named destinations. (I don't believe Adobe Reader has this feature. I don't believe Adobe Reader has ANY features.) Good luck. -- Dave

[midlo]

Gloria--thanks for your sleuthing on this! I'm on Acro Pro 7.0.9 and going to try David's suggestion. If it's nogo there, upgrade to 8.0.

David--Do you happen to know of any way to specify custom named destinations in Frame 7.1 source files--for example, attaching to headings? I'd like to eliminate the step of adding them manually to a finished PDF.

Thanks,
Mike

[_David_Fass_]

Yes, you can add named destinations to the Frame source. Just use the 'Secial' > 'Hypertext...' marker with the command "Specify Named Destination". (If adding the marker to body text, remember to apply some character formatting to define the extent of the linked text. Blue-color formatting might be advisable to get the traditional hyperlink look, although any other formatting will work. See the Frame docs.)

Frame will convert this marker to a named destination when exported to PDF. Just be aware of the funny prefix that Frame adds. If you enter "somename" as the destination text, the actual named destination in the PDF will be "Mn.8.newlink.somename", where "n" is the number of the Frame file in the book. (Not sure what happens of you're just saving a solitary .fm file. Google it.) Also, I think spaces in the destination text are converted to periods, and there is the 32 character limit mentioned above. Very important.

Now, if you are linking between Frame-generated PDFs, then it would be best to just use Frame's built in cross-refs. They will work fine. Note that if you are working with books, there may be some subtleties: If you are linking between books, and you want the links preserved in the book-PDFs, I think you need to have *just* the book files open when you "Save as" PDF. That tells Frame to target the book PDFs, not chapter PDFs. Something like that. Also, the Frame book and PDF directory structures must match, I think.

That may be more information than you were looking for. Let me know if you run into problems. -- Dave

[midlo]

David--My main problem may be solved with your advice to eliminate "nameddest=". If not I'll upgrade Acro. That problem is critical path and involves making named dest link from help file to PDF work in the PDF.

The matter of inserting named dests in Frame source rather than PDF is tertiary priority or less--nice to have. It doesn't involve inserting a hypertext command or jump into Frame. It involves inserting the custom *destination* of a jump from a help file into Frame so that I won't have to insert it manually later in the PDF. I've never found a way to do this and the Frame help is no help.

But thanks anyway,
Mike

[_David_Fass_]

I don't really understand what you're trying to do. I may have confused you, because of my remark about character formatting, which only applies to hyperlinks, not destinations.

What I explained before is how to put a "destination" into the Frame source. If you want to insert an actual hyperlink to a web page, then use the "Go to URL" command in a Hypertext marker.

You must either want to jump IN or jump OUT, right? I think we've covered both, no?

-- Dave

[_Gloria_Mc_]

I've been on a deadline, so haven't been able to keep up until now. Hope the following info is useful.
Destinations can be viewed in Acrobat Pro or Std (not Reader). In v.8.1.1, use View > Navigation Panels > Destinations. You can also manually add/rename/delete/set destinations there if desired.

To link to a destination in a PDF from a Word file, insert a hyperlink and add or select the base PDF file name, then type the destination info at the end, such as #mydestination.

Mike, Acrobat 7.0.9 has a history of not working (not just for me), but if you can get it to work reliably, great!

Also, you can define a dest. name in Frame that will be properly processed into a named destination in PDF file (with the funky prefix that David explained). The Help topic (in Frame 7.1 anyway) "Creating links to specific topics" explains it. Though it does not say that the destinations created with this process will be converted to destinations in PDFs, they are, as David explained. So just do the part to define the destination (Special > Hypertext > Specify Named Destination) and you will get your destination in the PDF file. You can link to that from your help file. If you don't want the prefix that Frame assigns, there is there is a product (Microtype Timesavers) that will delete them for you.
HTH. --GMc

[_Richard_B_Stevens_]

I'm creating a TOC with hyperlinks to named destinations. If I create a destination (a document subheading) close to the bottom of page 10 (for example), the destination is defined on page 11 and the link display the top of page 11 not the subheading. The page layout is set to continuous. I want each link to display the destination text the same distance from the top of the window/page. Any suggestions how I can achieve that?