HARMAN pricing. Is it realistic?

[ASWC]

HARMAN pricing has been announced and is not cheap. I said in a few posts it will likely be low and I was simply wrong. My company already said NO (I asked) and we are now leaving AIR for good.

I sure do understand the need for HARMAN to profit but it seems to me that pricing is too high. As a result maybe some people are going to pay while actively seeking alternative solution and quickly leaving the tech afterward.

What do you guys think of that pricing? Good for the future of AIR or not good?

[zwetan_uk]

ASWC  wrote

For me it's simple, no web target, no need for that tech.

Then you never needed that tech because a web target was never planed

I get it, you wish the "magic button" solution, I just click there and voila it publish in whatever it needs so it works inside the web browser, but that's a fantasy, that's very very unlikely to happen.

so if that you're only argument against AIR, it is pretty thin.

AIR was designed as an outside of the browser experience, as a runtime that can reuse the Flash technology (SWF, ActionScript, AVM2, etc.) but without the limitations of the browser (file access, socket, GUI, etc.).

And even if such thing were existing it would have a lot of limitations

simply because a web browser has a lot of limitations as a "runtime"

in fact I could argue that AIR with the way it can be extended with ANE
is the complete opposite of what a web browser can do (as it can not be extended at all)

so ultimately you will never be happy with AIR because you ask for something close to impossible

[ASWC]

It's ridiculous, so I've been doing it wrong for 10 years when with the same base code I could publish to desktop, mobile and web? Get real please.

[zwetan_uk]

ASWC  wrote

It's ridiculous, so I've been doing it wrong for 10 years when with the same base code I could publish to desktop, mobile and web? Get real please.

no, your argument is ridiculous

a web client is limited by the Web API, if your app need to connect to TCP or UDP sockets (one example among many)
and such API does not exists then you are out of luck, you simply can not implement it

because you can not extend the web browser

WASM not gonna allow you to do that, browser plugins were the only mechanism to extend the browser and those are dead

so if your app need TCP/UDP sockets, that will be a clear "NO", and people will tell you "use Web Sockets instead"

but web sockets are not the same thing as plain TCP/UDP sockets, there are limited.

and that's the same thing for many other system calls, that are simply not available to the web browser.

So yeah, even if you had some tech that could cross-compile your AS3 to JS, or could read the bytecode of a SWF, etc.
many of the Flash API, and many more of the AIR API could simply not be implemented at all.

so "get real" ? please know a little bit of tech before bringing your fallacious arguments.

[ASWC]

Unity does it, flutter does it, AIR doesn't do it, this might change if you roll on the floor but I doubt it.

[Oldes]

ASWC​ I know that you started this thread, but as someone who follow several technology branches, including Unity and AIR, I would like to ask you, cannot you just stop spitting negative energy here? I think that everybody here already know you opinions now and you have your decisions done too, so we can move on, right? Thank you.

[ASWC]

No negativity here, AIR doesn't have a web target, some people care, some people don't, so what?

[Oldes]

But AIR never had web target and it was never meant to have it.. its goal was to be a cross-platform standalone runtime and what I can tell, it is still working well. It was Flash what was supposed to work in browsers, but it was banned as outdated and replaced with the WebGL and WASM stuff. If you have need for web target, there is a lot of alternatives with passionate young maintainers and I'm sure you know it, but as you say, not everybody is interested in it. I would rather want to have AIR on consoles and linux. And I'm pretty sure it is possible with some afford.

[el111]

Oldes love your work on Samorost and also Chuchel?

[ASWC]

Maybe you have never done it but there was such a thing as compiling a AS3 project for web, mobile, and desktop. As a matter of fact that was what we were doing with our top product, we had a AS3 code base and multiple output projects (in Flash Builder), 6 desktop, 12 mobile, 2 web and with a few clicks here and there we were compiling our product to all those targets. You want to convince me that I was the only one in the world to do that? Or have the need for it? I doubt that very much. Unity and flutter do have a web target, they have a desktop target, they have a mobile target, and more, and for some reason me wanting a AIR web target is INSANE, technologically impossible and nobody else wants it anyway, really?

[hferreira80]

I'm following Adobe AIR forum posts and I can tell that I see that ASWC defends it's view but he have a point.

For one hand I understand that he defend's it's point in a manner that may be uncomfortable for a few folks but want's his silent it's not better.

Perhaps there is some fear inside.

Once open a time, where Flash ecosystem had a huge advantage: Web (Flash runtime), Desktop (AIR) and Mobile (AIR).

If I compare AIR for Mobile against other techs like Xamarin, Xamarin kick AIR ass and I can argue without difficulty BUT once open a time where Flash ecosystem was able to real multi target: Web/Desktop/Mobile and I could reuse code from the 3 platform and also create a specific layer to reuse between Desktop and Mobile.

This is not a true any more for Web and it's always on a danger zone for Mobile (perhaps it may change in a near future with Harman but for now it's a danger zone).

Yes, with Harman, a AIR Mobile App have a chance to survive now for several year (if not 5 years or even more) BUT without the Web target has we had before, the real advantage of AIR ecosystem (ex-Flash) will not be the same.

Linux support may help a bit but it's not all.

At the end, one should accept at his own risk, that AIR it's now what it is and there other platforms that are evolving and perhaps will catch the few advantage that AIR had once before.

And without web target that will probably happen.

[ASWC]

Thank you, at least there are still people reading what I post.

[zwetan_uk]

ASWC  wrote

Unity does it, flutter does it, AIR doesn't do it, this might change if you roll on the floor but I doubt it.

No they don't, you don't know what you are talking about

Unity - Manual: WebGL Networking

and

https://api.flutter.dev/flutter/dart-io/dart-io-library.html

do you see the parts where it says "No direct socket access" and "Browser-based applications can't use this library"

Both Unity3D and Dart/Flutter web export can not use sockets, period

I don't need to "roll on the floor" as I actually know what I'm talking about, you don't.

[ASWC]

I love how you come up with your own subjects that you can then try to debunk ... When did all this form in your head when all I said was "I want a web target" who knows? Now you are fighting with sockets, networking .... Earlier it was bytecode ... All I want is a web target ....

[zwetan_uk]

ASWC  wrote

I love how you come up with your own subjects that you can then try to debunk ... When did all this form in your head when all I said was "I want a web target" who knows? Now you are fighting with sockets, networking .... Earlier it was bytecode ... All I want is a web target ....

yeah we get it you just want a web target and you don't care or don't know if it is feasible, but because you want it then everyone else is wrong

in fact I gonna stop here, you're not even worth the attention and your technical knowledge is subpar

so not very interesting

[ASWC]

Because I want a web target everyone else is wrong? Again this is pure fabrication, I NEVER said that, I NEVER implied it, I just said I want a web target and that's all. Stick to reality and stick to what people actually say. In fact, you are the only one here who said I was WRONG for wanting a web target while I never ever said people were wrong for NOT wanting one.

[Leo Kanel]

You had to do it, didn't you

[ASWC]

He fought us so hard for saying exactly what he said 3 weeks earlier .... Amazing. You know I had to post this.

[Leo Kanel]

Lol, I know. But in science terms, this is a stage of acceptance you know. First there is denial, then it starts to break in, then you accept it.

[juvelez]

I totally agree

[nmecodes]

Harman wanting to put a splash screen in, is akin to the old days of the flash link on the right click menu.  It's a pain in the ass, and it doesn't look professional.