HARMAN pricing. Is it realistic?

[ASWC]

HARMAN pricing has been announced and is not cheap. I said in a few posts it will likely be low and I was simply wrong. My company already said NO (I asked) and we are now leaving AIR for good.

I sure do understand the need for HARMAN to profit but it seems to me that pricing is too high. As a result maybe some people are going to pay while actively seeking alternative solution and quickly leaving the tech afterward.

What do you guys think of that pricing? Good for the future of AIR or not good?

[Leo Kanel]

Zwetan asked, I replied.

Please tell me again how AIR30 is not causing high ANRs and how it is perfect, while our apps got from rank #1 in the store to #19 within 2 weeks. I bet that is helpful. This was truly helpful.

If you can't handle the truth, tell your buddy zwetan to not provoke me.

[rewb0rn]

zwetan is not my buddy, in fact I dislike his way of arguing quite often. Not sure what Air 30 has to do with this but sure there was a bug. Tell me how Unity is free of nasty bugs please.

We have a completely different perspective of what the truth is and that is completely fine. The only difference is that I don't go about and hijack every single thread of this forum to spread my point of view. It's annoying and irritating for anyone who is just trying to find latest info about Harman and Air.

[ASWC]

Perspectives don't matter, there's only ONE truth and concerning AIR it's not that difficult to grasp.

- It used to be number one cross platform in forums and articles on the web

- job sites used to list plenty of AIR jobs

- stackoverflow used to have dozens of AIR question per day

Now the truth is:

- AIR no longer mentioned in forums and articles on the web

- No more AIR jobs on job site lists

- 1 to 2 questions on stackoverflow at best

You don't want to accept that reality? It hurts that people say these things? Well that won't change the facts one bit.

Now many people do come here to get INFORMATION, you give them your opinion and I give them mine and they can decide what's best for them. If you don't want people like me or Leo to be here then by definition you don't want people to get the best INFORMATION and make the best decision for themselves.

No AIR is not dead yet but it's at its worse state ever, as Leo and I stated, for a company it does make a lot of sense to move away from AIR right now. Of course there are companies like yours that want to stick to AIR for as long as possible, nothing wrong with that, but don't pretend one second that you can't understand why a company would move away from AIR right now.

Stop telling us to go away, if you disagree with what we say then produce arguments and prove us wrong. At the end people reading those forums can make their decisions for themselves and that's what matters.

[rewb0rn]

ASWC Thanks for proving my point

[ASWC]

I don't think I do but you are certainly proving mine.

[hferreira80]

My opinion is.

Choose AIR for a new project it's a bad idea (my opinion).

Move small AIR projects, can be a good idea (this weekend in just a few hours, I did it for one and it's one less depending on AIR - my choice)

Move almost EOF AIR projects it's a bad idea

But move profitable AIR project can be a good idea

Unfortunately, not always this is viable in a timer manner so one must decide stay with AIR and it's acceptable on that specific project or create a plan to port or even wait for a specific technology evolve (sometimes this is a good strategy to do with the minimum friction).

For example, I have a backend designed with .NET Framework. After several experimental trials to port to .NET Core (in the way, porting small portions of code), after .NET Core 2.2 was released, I could do that with just a weekend

However, one can decide not to do that at all and accept the risks and the others should respect that.

[dolldivine]

Listen to me, I would give my first born child to be able to continue working in Flash (yes, I still call it Flash).  So $199/month is not that bad, in comparison.  Take my money lol!

Btw, people are mentioning AIR for Desktop.. I recently started porting some old Flash games to AIR for Desktop and surprisingly the user feedback has been overwhelmingly positive!  They say it's more stable than Flash and they love having access to the games without internet access.  I love that it installs the little icon.

[marcanw]

Since several years I see in the forum people saying that Air is dead. I have even see some declaring that they leave Air several time since then. Leaving the first time should be enough if you ask me.

It sounds to me that, convinced that Air is dead, they want to be sure that they have done the right choice by coming here saying Air dead ad nauseum. Sure if you want to kill Air continue that way.

But be conscient that there are people that don't have the choice because they simply don't have the means to remake an app that they have build during several years.

So it seems a bit egoist to try to destroy something a lot of people are living on.

So if those guys who want to leave Air or pray that Air is dead could give a break to others who want to move along with Air...

A lot of people here just want to have the pertinent information on how to make Air live.

For me Harman is a very good news. Sure the roadmap is short but very clear: Android 64. And personalty I think it's fine. If they can be focused on it it's a good thing. They will have a lot of work in the future so give them some time to set up the new Air and fill up the roadmap.

Regarding the price I'm sure there will have some adjustment, but I'm happy to pay Harman if they can help make Air live. If I'm not happy with the new Air, I will stop using it and stop paying for it... and I won't come here crying that Air is dead

Anyway Air is alive!

[hferreira80]

Extreme thought leads to war.

Fortunately, someone took AIR to do a fresh restart. This is the best thing that could happen to a maintenance mode software (please, don't even try to convince me on the contrary), specially with the state in which it was left (the very worst).

It's more than natural that the new company wants to build a business around AIR and this more than natural (at lease in 2019) that this business is SaaS. A lot of people screamed asking for that, now you got it !

We, as humans also work as a service, at the end of the month you get your salary.

Yes, the price is high (for a "simple" or not so simple maintenance mode) and it's OK for a maintenance mode + performance improvements, when possible + new features/targets like Linux when the time allow it but that, we don't know iet.

And we can't compare any price from Harman to the free solution from Adobe (nothing beats free), however we can and we should demand quality as we will be paying (that's the beauty of SaaS, it serves both sides).

Yes, the could start with a lower price for a maintenance mode then raise the price when they add new features but do you would agree with that, I mean, when try raise de price ?

There is also another possibility and I risk to repeat my self, change tech.

[PippoApps]

This is getting really annoying.

If I were admin of this forum I would have banned all disturbers.

Looking forward to a moderated harman forum, to abandon this in the hands of those bloating egos roaming around who kidnapped those discussions. F*** off and get a life, leave us happily discussing how we like AIR, and go to become a millionaire with your new techs somewhere else.

I hope my thought is clear enough.

[ASWC]

So the guys giving their opinions should be banned and the guy using the F word should be in charge, got it.

[PippoApps]

So the guys giving their opinions should be banned and the guy using the F word should be in charge

Nah, I am too latin and impulsive to be in charge of any public space. But thanks for the endorsement

[djportilla]

This topic has gotten way off subject.  I'd like to think that everyone on here being developers would be mature individuals but honestly it sounds like a bunch of little kids arguing in here.  I suppose that's forum life.

In any case, those of you who are in this thread to "help provide information" to potential new users are a bunch of haters.  If AIR is dead, you've moved on, etc. then let it go.  You're not informing anyone of anything.  Do you think some random person looking for a way to make apps is going to stumble onto these forums and get naively swept into AIR development?  And even if they did, who the hell made you the framework police? 

There are a ton of reasons to use AIR and no doubt a ton of reasons not to.  But I would say that the majority of people that use AIR have been long-time users.  I'd like to think that no one here is an idiot and everyone can think, research, etc. and then decide for themselves without a group of haters constantly shitting on everything.  It gets really old, really fast.  Don't like AIR, move on.

I swear, you guys are just like that one guy that dated a girl for a few years then broke up with her because you didn't see a future with her. And now that she has a chance to get back on her feet, he goes around telling all other potential suitors not to date her because she's not going anywhere in life.  Seriously, who does that?   You and AIR had a good run.  Leave it for what it was and take some fond memories with you but don't come around here crapping on everything and pretending to white knight by informing the naive developers. 

Really, are you guys mad about something?  I get it, the lack of a 64-bit Android release was a let down.  Then again, a lot of you guys "moved on" way before that because you "saw the writing on the wall".  So are you mad because you already moved on and now that Harman has taken over, AIR may have some life still in it just yet?  What are you guys being such jerk-offs for?  I'm sure you used AIR for a number of years; you made money off of it; and that shit was FREE.  Let it go man... just let it go.

[ASWC]

So the guy that has to hide so many words in ****** is gonna tell everyone how to behave properly on these forums, the irony.

[djportilla]

It doesn't change the fact that you're being a hater.  And it's not about behaving properly.  I'm honestly curious as to what the problem is.  Don't like, trust, use AIR anymore and have moved on to other frameworks?  Then what are you still doing here?

Are you mad?  Is so, why?

Are you here to help people see AIR for all the terrible things it is?  If so, who are you trying to help?  I don't see anyone around here asking if they should start AIR development.

Did you spend so long on these forums that you have nowhere else to go?  On my other account I've seen you on these forums quite a bit over the past years, you've always been a stand-up and helpful guy.  Why the sudden change?

Be honest, what is the main goal of your vitriol?

[ASWC]

There's no "vitriol" from me or "hate", I'm not mad and I didn't change a bit. There's no such thing as somebody posting on these forums who doesn't care about AIR one way or another, that's the part you don't understand. The "haters" are not here on these forums, the "haters" don't come here to post. It's easy to consider anyone who doesn't share your opinion a "hater", it's way harder to actually read their posts and try to understand what they say, I suggest you start there.

[hferreira80]

I read your post and you lose your point of view in the moment that you use many times *****

I think (at least what I'm aware of), that no one here was so aggressive with you.

I also don't understand why this stalk about the people opinion.

This is not Trump world, correct ?

If you really think that some people here are that mad, than your post just give them fuel and you got what you sowed.

[PippoApps]

I kindly invite everybody to keep the discussion in topic:

Alternatives to AIR - suggestions, experiences and thoughts

[ASWC]

The topic of this particular thread is the pricing of AIR 33 by HARMAN (I should know I started it). An acceptable and related side topic is AIR 32 since it remains free but of course can't publish for Android after August 2019.

[PippoApps]

Seems like good news

Come on it's also fun to **** *** each other sometimes, it is important not to take it personally. In front of a glass of wine communication would be much different, but on forums when emotions are involved it's easy to get carried away (personally, I do love AIR, therefore I tend to get emotional on the topic, especially now that I see hope).

Kudos to everybody.

[Leo Kanel]

I bet people would through wine glasses to each other and cheese cubes

On a related note, it is good tha the resource compression is fixed.

[Jonathon P]

I will gladly pay these prices if it means that they are actively developing and making the platform better.  However... if support to work with Animate goes away ... so do I.

[ASWC]

I think we will all have a clearer picture of what we can expect from HARMAN in the next 6 months/12 months.

1. If HARMAN has not much to show for in term of innovation for the tech then people are just paying for maintenance and privilege to publish and this won't go very far unfortunately.

2. If HARMAN blows our mind with tons of update and innovation and exciting new stuff then AIR might be coming back with a vengeance.

2 would be pretty awesome, 1 would mean AIR will finish its career by blackmailing its most fervent defenders ....

[Flipline]

Harman released updated pricing details this morning by email along with some roadmap items, the full text was posted on the Starling forum here:

https://forum.starling-framework.org/d/21728-the-future-of-adobe-air/199

The main changes from the previous pricing plan are that the subscription fee is now only for using the tools and isn't required for the duration of an app being available in app stores, the revenue caps for each tier have been adjusted and are now based on overall income so you don't have to determine your "AIR-specific" income, the subscription fees are now billed annually instead of monthly, and the top-tier prices were lowered as well.

Personally I'm happy with all of these changes, and for anyone stressing about diving into this and updating their apps on a tight deadline before August 1st, Google just granted a 12-month extension for existing AIR app updates until they'll need to support 64-bit (though it seems new AIR apps will still need to be 64-bit).

[ASWC]

Yikes, the long term goals (the most important for me) are very few and not very exciting and on top of that they will depend on funding. What this tells me is that the new AIR team is small, probably 5 to 10 developers (but more likely close to 5), and goals must be kept realistic but at least for me this is just not ambitious enough. For me it's simple, no web target, no need for that tech.